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IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion


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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

ar as I remember Christ did not participate in the "Judicial commissions/committees" of his time... 

As far as I remember the congregations were not yet completely established. There were only disciples who followed him.  He was not part of the Jewish Sanhedrin and went into the synagogue to read the Hebrew scriptures.  

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... apparently not, as it IS up to God ...

I request that all upvotes that might otherwise go to CC, who disdains them, be bestowed upon me instead. I need all I can get to counter the deluge of downvotes from 4Jah. Never could there be

(Proverbs 26:17) Like someone grabbing hold of a dog’s ears Is the one passing by who [meddles in] a quarrel that is not his. I have had hundreds of very similar exchanges with Allen/Billy/Cesar

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14 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

begged the Elders NOT to contact the police?

This is a common problem - family members beg elders to not tell the police.  This is why I say that many here do not think of how the families feel or think. They do not think of the family dynamics, except about the reporting. 

I have mentioned on this forum before how a young boy who touched his cousin out of curiosity was sent to a reformatory and branded a sex offender for the rest of his life......  BUT the people here do not really want to look at the nuances and the pain this brings a family or the victim....... the smell a pound of flesh and use this subject to keep on beating and beating JWs. they are not reasonable.

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25 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

do you blame me for not calling anyone here of Christian fellowship a brother,

Then why do you come here?  You yourself say - have discipline..... discipline the mind!  Walk the talk buddy!  I know I am a Witness - but if I am not good enough to your standards,  go read the watchtower we studied today!

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12 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

! I'm disciplined enough to fight for God and Christ.

You may be using  a hammer when a sharp sword is needed. Do you really think there are NO witnesses here? You have judged us all? You are deluding yourself if you think your personal brand of JW is the only kind.  There are principles we all have to adhere to and I have not proven unfaithful to Jehovah.  If I have - show me what I said which was unfaithful to the word of god -  except landing myself in a stupid cat standoff with you (for a silly sentence with less than 10 words). It was NOT Jehovah's ego that was hurt - it as yours.

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That odd passage at 2 Kings 22 in today’s Watchtower sidetracked me temporarily as I began to think of mischievous modifications and uses that I could put it to.

“So he said, ‘You will fool him, and what is more, you will be successful. Go out and do that.’”

CC had better start behaving—that’s all I can say.

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27 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That odd passage at 2 Kings 22 in today’s Watchtower sidetracked me temporarily as I began to think of mischievous modifications and uses that I could put it to.

“So he said, ‘You will fool him, and what is more, you will be successful. Go out and do that.’”

CC had better start behaving—that’s all I can say.

This passage is not often examined, but it highlight's how Jehovah allows his heavenly administration latitude in making suggestions and applying the same. This "Divine Council" has a lot of discussion in various circles. My thoughts in this regard are that the 144k are to be additions/replacements for the defective ones. This, though then elevates previously lower forms of life, like humans, albeit w/everlasting life, w/having "life in themselves", something the others in the spirit realm have been thought not to possess, needing some manner of sustenance to keep alive. These replacements, the 144k will apparently be elevated to essentially immortal status. It is the ultimate answer...Jehovah says "I know my work w/humans is good, and further these selected ones can be trusted with even what other faithful in the spirit realm don't possess."...

Anyway...my thoughts on that....

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

As far as I remember the congregations were not yet completely established. There were only disciples who followed him.  He was not part of the Jewish Sanhedrin and went into the synagogue to read the Hebrew scriptures.  

It can be. Some or enough patterns in New Jew congregations was from Old Jew system, as i can see. Eg. Apostles have meetings without presence of woman, as in case immediately after Jesus death. Jesus had spiritual meetings with apostles but their wives and children were not present. Sort of Men's club. Yes, Jesus made some extensions while speaking with women, but many important meetings were without women, without families of disciple. Perhaps their wives were not interested in new movement or been preoccupied with care for family. 

 By the way, when we talk about women and apostles. The 3 Gospels report that the women saw the empty tomb and went to tell the apostles. However 1 Gospel (according to Mark) says that they did not go to tell anyone anything. Some explanation?

 

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4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

and God inspired them to be published. Learn then.

Yes, i am learning exactly now. Please, will you clear here, about what God inspired them to be published? 

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

So, Jesus didn't go before the judgment of the Pharisees and before the Roman court. Good to know how much knowledge you bring to the table.

Oh dear God! Stick to context of comment. Jesus didn't act in roll of elder in Judicial Committee with another 2 elders and making decision about brother X or sister Y. I hope God will bless you this time and you will see the point :))).

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Since I'm not your keeper and your state of mind is in question, I have to ask silly questions because of silly thoughts you have. 😏

:)))

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27 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It can be. Some or enough patterns in New Jew congregations was from Old Jew system, as i can see. Eg. Apostles have meetings without presence of woman, as in case immediately after Jesus death. Jesus had spiritual meetings with apostles but their wives and children were not present. Sort of Men's club. Yes, Jesus made some extensions while speaking with women, but many important meetings were without women, without families of disciple. Perhaps their wives were not interested in new movement or been preoccupied with care for family. 

 By the way, when we talk about women and apostles. The 3 Gospels report that the women saw the empty tomb and went to tell the apostles. However 1 Gospel (according to Mark) says that they did not go to tell anyone anything. Some explanation?

 

These sorts of differences in gospel account differences has been discussed by dozens and dozens of individuals... I don't use solely WT material in going through all these issues, however literally 5 seconds of searching provides the lazy one w/a banquest https://answersingenesis.org/jesus/resurrection/christs-resurrection-four-accounts-one-reality/

 

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

This is a common problem - family members beg elders to not tell the police.  This is why I say that many here do not think of how the families feel or think. They do not think of the family dynamics, except about the reporting.

Yes, i think i recall you or someone else mentioned this issue, about family members wish about not reporting. It will be interesting to hear more about this. About JW members (or as general) not reporting to police and also, how about not reporting to elders too.

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The reason there is an expression “skeletons in the closet” is that throughout history, people have succeeded in keeping them there. It is only in modern times that any sin of any degree is expected to be reported to others. 

Some ought be, no doubt. Others not so much. But the idea that the involved parties, even the victim him/herself, has NO SAY in the matter is uniquely of our time.

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    • I have considered all of their arguments. Some even apply VAT 4956 to their scenarios, which is acceptable. Anyone can use secular evidence if they genuinely seek understanding. Nonetheless, whether drawing from scripture or secular history, 607 is a plausible timeframe to believe in. People often misuse words like "destruction", "devastation", and "desolation" in an inconsistent manner, similar to words like "besiege", "destroy", and "sack". When these terms are misapplied to man-made events, they lose their true meaning. This is why with past historians, the have labeled it as follows: First Capture of Jerusalem 606 BC Second Capture of Jerusalem 598 BC Third Capture of Jerusalem 587 BC Without taking into account anything else.  Regarding the second account, if we solely rely on secular chronology, the ancient scribes made military adaptations to align with the events recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles. However, the question arises: Can we consider this adaptation as accurate?  Scribes sought to include military components in their stories rather than focusing solely on biblical aspects. Similarly, astronomers, who were also scholars, made their observations at the king's request to divine omens, rather than to understand the plight of the Jewish people. Regarding the third capture, we can only speculate because there are no definitive tablets like the Babylonian chronicles that state 598. It is possible that before the great tribulation, Satan will have influenced someone to forge more Babylonian chronicles in order to discredit the truth and present false evidence from the British Museum, claiming that the secular view was right all along. This could include documents supposedly translated after being found in 1935, while others were found in the 1800s. The Jewish antiquities authorities have acknowledged the discovery of forged items, while the British Museum has not made similar acknowledgments. It is evident that the British Museum has been compelled to confess to having looted or stolen artifacts which they are unwilling to return. Consequently, I find it difficult to place my trust in the hands of those who engage in such activities. One of the most notable instances of deception concerning Jewish antiquities was the widely known case of the ossuary belonging to James, the brother of Jesus. I was astonished by the judge's inexplicable justification for acquittal, as it was evident that his primary concern was preserving the reputation of the Jewish nation, rather than unearthing the truth behind the fraudulent artifact. The judge before even acknowledged it. "In his decision, the judge was careful to say his acquittal of Golan did not mean the artifacts were necessarily genuine, only that the prosecution had failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Golan had faked them." The burden of proof is essential. This individual not only forged the "Jehoash Tablet," but also cannot be retried for his deceit. Why are they so insistent on its authenticity? To support their narrative about the first temple of Jerusalem. Anything to appease the public, and deceive God. But then again, after the Exodus, when did they truly please God? So, when it comes to secular history, it's like a game of cat and mouse.  
    • I'm not bothered by being singled out, as you seem to be accustomed to defending and protecting yourselves, but it's a good idea to keep your dog on a leash. Speaking of which, in a different thread, TTH mentioned that it would be great if everyone here shared their life stories. As both of you are the librarians here, I kindly ask you to minimize any signs of intimidation or insincerity. It is you people who need to be "banned" here. However, it is quite evident that you hold a negative influence, which God recognizes, therefore you are banned from your own conscience in His eyes.
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