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IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion


Patiently waiting for Truth

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12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

.. how they approached truth ... 

... word of god as something outside of them ....

.. they approach the truth of god as something inside them ...     

... subjectivity leads to all kinds of mistakes ...

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Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. - John 7

In which version is it possible to make more mistakes?

When are you "guided, lead by the spirit" (GB claim they are guided)

or

when are you "inspired by the spirit" (GB claim they are not inspired)?

Pay more attention to scripture w/serious biblical exegesis and biblical archaeology and textual criticism/historical analysis and less to cherry-picking statements made by other people. Now if you think that somehow your own heart isn't treacherous and desperate, and if you feel that it is a small matter from which one is immune to isolate ones' self and at no time will this cause such one's as yourself to seek your own selfish longing, then I'd say your spirit has become like those of the false spirits which inspired the king to act foolishly so that he might die at Ramoth-Gilead. 1 Kings 22:1-53

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... apparently not, as it IS up to God ...

I request that all upvotes that might otherwise go to CC, who disdains them, be bestowed upon me instead. I need all I can get to counter the deluge of downvotes from 4Jah. Never could there be

(Proverbs 26:17) Like someone grabbing hold of a dog’s ears Is the one passing by who [meddles in] a quarrel that is not his. I have had hundreds of very similar exchanges with Allen/Billy/Cesar

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Archer's analytical method is the preferred method, one w/which the org has attempted to follow. One can argue how well these have done, but this discussion shows the methods one ought use if one actually cares about what the truth is on any given matter.

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On 2/27/2021 at 8:37 PM, Thinking said:

I don’t always agree with Toms view..nor he with mine...but what a great conversation we would have in a car group..

I was in CC’s car group the other day. Alas, we broke for coffee at Starbucks. He had insisted on McDonalds. We were derided as apostates for the remainder of the morning.

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On 3/2/2021 at 11:48 AM, Anna said:

The whole world screwed up. It was because the way things were done back then, that the ARC had to be set up. There are no loopholes in Jehovah's law, however, because of loopholes in secular law we were not able to do things properly.

Excuses excuses. Congregants would be d/fed for a hundred different reasons, BUT Elders and others were not d/fed for CSA. They were kept hidden in the congregations. 

BUT I've still not had any true answers as to how Australia had more that 50 years worth of Pedophilia records, which it seems they handed over. 

And America, where the Org began, pretends to only have 25 years of Pedophilia records on data base. AND I still haven't heard that your GB has handed all that data base over to the Superior Authorities.

Add to this, that up until February last year (Pre-Covid virus) the GB were going to be arrested in connection with CSA. But it's all gone quiet now. i wonder why ? A very big back hander payout maybe ????? 

Is the new American president going to legalize Child sex ?  I would not be at all surprised. 

 

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But back on track. Miracles and being inspired of God's Holy spirit.

It seems that most JWs on here DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD POURING OUT HIS HOLY SPIRIT 'in the last days'. 

They do not believe that anyone will be inspired. WHY ? Because the GB of the Watchtower / JW Org only teaches physical things, not spiritual things.

 Joel 2 : 28

Berean Study Bible
And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

Acts 2 : 17

Berean Study Bible
‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

So, are we in those LAST DAYS ?  Well the Watchtower keeps saying we are.

So are you calling God a liar concerning the pouring out of His spirit  ? 

Zechariah 8 : 23

Berean Study Bible
This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue will tightly grasp the robe of a Jew, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’ ”

That Jew is the TRUE Anointed. So will you be one of those 'ten men' ? 

You of little faith. JWs that pretend to believe in God through Christ. In fact you do not believe in either God or Christ. You put your faith in MEN. Your GB and your Watchtower Society / JW Org, are your gods. 

That is why you do not believe in the miracle of God's Holy Spirit. 

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4 hours ago, xero said:

false spirits which inspired the

 

4 hours ago, xero said:

1 Kings 22:1-53

Can the use of these biblical passages, to unimportant individuals like me, be applied to GB because they adopted doctrines that later turned out to be wrong (false). This can be explained in two ways, which you would, I would say, “suggest through the first few minutes of the video”: 1) by the influence of the “deceiving spirit” from the outside and 2) by the influence of the “deceiving spirit” from the inside.

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13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

Can the use of these biblical passages, to unimportant individuals like me, be applied to GB because they adopted doctrines that later turned out to be wrong (false). This can be explained in two ways, which you would, I would say, “suggest through the first few minutes of the video”: 1) by the influence of the “deceiving spirit” from the outside and 2) by the influence of the “deceiving spirit” from the inside.

It can be applied to anyone, however we cannot leap to being wrong as being inspired by a deceiving spirit. The 1st century Christians were documented as being wrong on many issues and at many times.

One can also be used even if one has no favor w/Jehovah.... "49  But one of them, Caʹia·phas,z who was high priest that year, said to them: “You do not know anything at all, 50  and you have not reasoned that it is to your benefit for one man to die in behalf of the people rather than for the whole nation to be destroyed.”a 51  He did not say this, however, of his own originality, but because he was high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation, 52  and not only for the nation but also to gather together into one the children of God who were scattered about." John 11:49-52

But again, you appear to be striving towards the need for extra-biblical inspiration, and this is a "need" unacknowledged by scripture.

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1 hour ago, xero said:

It can be applied to anyone, however we cannot leap to being wrong as being inspired by a deceiving spirit. The 1st century Christians were documented as being wrong on many issues and at many times.

One can also be used even if one has no favor w/Jehovah.... "49  But one of them, Caʹia·phas,z who was high priest that year, said to them: “You do not know anything at all, 50  and you have not reasoned that it is to your benefit for one man to die in behalf of the people rather than for the whole nation to be destroyed.”a 51  He did not say this, however, of his own originality, but because he was high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation, 52  and not only for the nation but also to gather together into one the children of God who were scattered about." John 11:49-52

But again, you appear to be striving towards the need for extra-biblical inspiration, and this is a "need" unacknowledged by scripture.

Not my striving, just observation and some sort of thinking about issue.

Let me explain, please. Who was inspired in the 1st century? Christians? Which Christians? Every Christian? Only Writers of Letters and Books of Bible? Men, women, children? Missionaries? Elders? Etc.

WTJWorg said how "gifts of miracles" aka "inspiration" stopped in 1st Century. But the expressions of the spirit in the first assembly were not the only in "miraculous works." What about teachings? JW members  are said First Christians to have had wrong predictions and expectations, thus trying to justify the wrong doctrines for today’s GB and JW. Were the apostles "guided by the spirit" or inspired by the spirit? "

How did they work "miracles"? Under "guidance or inspiration"? 

WTJWorg publications using verse: Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement,*+ but test the inspired statements* to see whether they originate with God,+ for many false prophets have gone out into the world. - 1 john 4 1

... and teach members to using these in everyday life to not be deceived. How will JW recognize the inspired expression? How will JW test the inspired expression? How will JW refuse to believe in an inspired expression? .... if he himself is not inspired to be able to see the difference? How will an uninspired individual cope with an inspired expression?

So it’s not about my insistence on the topic, it’s about how to recognize truth from lies. Is it easier / harder to recognize an uninspired lie or an inspired lie? :))

 

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5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not my striving, just observation and some sort of thinking about issue.

Let me explain, please. Who was inspired in the 1st century? Christians? Which Christians? Every Christian? Only Writers of Letters and Books of Bible? Men, women, children? Missionaries? Elders? Etc.

WTJWorg said how "gifts of miracles" aka "inspiration" stopped in 1st Century. But the expressions of the spirit in the first assembly were not the only in "miraculous works." What about teachings? JW members  are said First Christians to have had wrong predictions and expectations, thus trying to justify the wrong doctrines for today’s GB and JW. Were the apostles "guided by the spirit" or inspired by the spirit? "

How did they work "miracles"? Under "guidance or inspiration"? 

WTJWorg publications using verse: Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement,*+ but test the inspired statements* to see whether they originate with God,+ for many false prophets have gone out into the world. - 1 john 4 1

... and teach members to using these in everyday life to not be deceived. How will JW recognize the inspired expression? How will JW test the inspired expression? How will JW refuse to believe in an inspired expression? .... if he himself is not inspired to be able to see the difference? How will an uninspired individual cope with an inspired expression?

So it’s not about my insistence on the topic, it’s about how to recognize truth from lies. Is it easier / harder to recognize an uninspired lie or an inspired lie? :))

 

What I get from this is not that you're concerned about Christianity, the process of inspiration or an examination of these things from a historical or biblical sense, but rather you're focused on the WTBTS.

If that's your focus, then have at it. If you're interested in improving your faith and your understanding, then I'll say you're doing it wrong.

 

I might say that you've missed entirely the point here:

24  He presented another illustration to them, saying: “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field.x 25  While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. 26  When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. 27  So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ 28  He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’y The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29  He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. 30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”z 3

Note the effort at "collecting weeds" (real or imagined) is turned down when professed followers express the desire for purity via a removal of those these feel to be "weeds".

If there are "weeds" this harvesting and collecting and winnowing won't be done by any self-appointed humans on planet earth.

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11 hours ago, xero said:

What I get from this is not that you're concerned about Christianity, the process of inspiration or an examination of these things from a historical or biblical sense, but rather you're focused on the WTBTS.

Is there any particular reason for us to discuss more about other religions and organizations at the JW Open Club?

Current and former members gathered here to exchange opinions, views, beliefs, experiences ....,

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is there any particular reason for us to discuss more about other religions and organizations at the JW Open Club?

Current and former members gathered here to exchange opinions, views, beliefs, experiences ....,

Like I said. You can talk about whatever you want to talk about and some of it's interesting, but quite frankly a lot of what you're into is for me "been there, done that". Don't imagine you're the only one who's ever done a deep dive on the times the WTBTS has gotten it wrong. I've discovered, though that the whole "apostate" thing is only interesting IF it points to areas of false expectations w/in ONES' OWN SELF. So if chronology is your thing you need to be disabused of, then you can spend a lot of time squirreling away various "nuts" on who got chronology wrong/right how/why. In the end, you won't have advanced any useful cause for yourself, unless it's some kind of emotional catharsis you're after.

But that's ok if that's what you're into and these are your needs of the moment.

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8 hours ago, xero said:

on the times the WTBTS has gotten it wrong

Yes, but none of you have any true answers as to why your GB / Leaders have got it wrong so many times, when they say they are the Faithful and Discreet slave. 

Is God or Christ telling them lies ? If the GB / Leaders of the Watchtower are supposed to be the true source of spiritual food, then who is telling lies ?  Why would God or Christ mislead your GB / Leaders ? 

The real reason is, of course, that your GB / Leaders are fake. They are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit because they are not the F&DS.  And you JWs are so hurt by those facts that you have to pretend you have answers. You have to keep serving Men, because it's all you know how to do. 

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