Conscience individual and collective

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

True Witnesses come here thinking this is a JW friendly site. IT'S NOT!!

As far as I know, there is only one participatory JW friendly site of any consequence. Of course, it is also not endorsed by the earthly organization, but it has about 12 moderators who run a pretty tight ship as to tamping down controversy. They know those who visit there want a ‘safe’ and harangue-free area, and they feel a responsibility to make it that way.

I wonder if you wouldn’t run into trouble there.

[Anna]

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Not even JW ONLY Closed club is apostate FREE!

To the best of my knowledge it is. Of course if you consider JWI, TTH, Xero and me apostates then I guess in your over imaginative mind it is not...

[Anna]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I wonder if you wouldn’t run into trouble there

You are talking about JWtalk, and yes, I think he would get kicked out pretty soon.

[xero]

You can always know someone has driven off into the ditch once they leave off preaching the kingdom but instead start rolling their own scrolls and smoking them.

Musing more...

It seems that I need to keep studying this business of conscience and it's relationship to organization and organizational discipline as a requirement for identifying an organization truly fulfilling the commission of making disciples and teaching them to observe (OBEY).

Seems like the word "OBEY" is a four letter word to those perishing.

My arguments need to be short, scriptural and the illustrations, emotionally evocative.

I also need a list of organizational "conversation stoppers" and ways to defuse these obstacles.

***Again...just thinking aloud

 

[TrueTomHarley]

36 minutes ago, xero said:

I also need a list of organizational "conversation stoppers" and ways to defuse these obstacles.

I rather like this goal.

37 minutes ago, xero said:

My arguments need to be short, scriptural and the illustrations, emotionally evocative.

I like this one, too. Sometimes the malcontents send me a light-years long diatribe. Do they expect me to reply to every sentence? Do they imagine I have nothing whatsoever to do with my time? It’s amazing how full of themselves people can be. 

I pick out one point and respond to it, assuming I respond to anything at all.

[Srecko Sostar]

"Open Club"........."Closed Club" ........"Open Conscience"........"Closed Conscience".........etc.

Is it possible just to speak frankly .... what we think about this and that?

[Pudgy]

2 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

This is the stupidity I'm talking about. You're a full-blown idiot!!!

• Matthew 5:22 "....... But I say to you, whoever shall say, ' You fool,' shall be subject to the fire of Gehenna."

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Most definitely, your proof of how full of themselves you people are.

Odd that you should say it. 

Just two days ago I wrote a lengthy letter to someone I much respect. Today I wrote again with but a single paragraph:

it’s always good to sit on any long letter for a day or so before sending it. I didn’t do it with the lengthy one I unleashed upon you. I should have. Sorry. I think I came across as a little too full of myself. It’s mostly born of an inner frustration that I’m doing something that I really think is useful and must carry on as though I am practicing a secret sin. Even so, it was an awfully long letter to subject anyone to.

I did not add (but would have had I thought of it) that I spent 16 years raising a son who was thought of highly enough to be assisting behind the literature counter, then lost him to “the world” because a certain Cesar-like brother grabbed hold of him, like a dog shaking a rat, over a relatively petty issue that probably would have blown over all by itself, and even if it hadn’t wasn’t that big of a deal to begin with, would not let go of it, created a great and unrelenting fuss, and after almost a year of this, the boy said, “I’m outta here.” (no relation to @Outta Here)

This is a public forum where participants give as good as they get, a rough-and-tumble place where a Cesar does no damage, because the entire forum is damage-on-display. Forget the “apostate warning” Cesar craves; what the forum ought to be subtitled is “Damages-R-Us.”

But you get a brother like Cesar (assuming that he really is one) out in an actual congregation, and they can do tremendous damage. Many faithful ones have alluded to this. @Thinkingis the most recent one who comes to mind.

Incidentally, tell @JW Insiderthat I have come across a way or rooting out errors. I crowdsurf them among FB friends, promising public attaboys to anyone who finds one. I do the best I can before release, but regard the release as a beta version until the mixed crowd and I get the bugs out, then it is on to glory and riches and “making a great name for myself.” I may even put a price on the book

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

“Open Club"........."Closed Club" ........"Open Conscience"........"Closed Conscience".........etc.

I have no problem with a closed club. If you started one for people of your persuasion and I found myself barred from it, I would not grumble. I probably would not find myself barred from it, because even if I was, I would not apply for entrance in the first place. I accept that people have different views. Speaking of myself in the third person in several of my excellent books, lauded by all but Cesar, who thinks they are garbage and thereby provides the highest recommendation possible, I end with an invitation to email, but also the caveat: “He’ll try to get back but cannot guarantee. Sometimes people disagree. He can live with that.”

I posted something on the Memorial recently and I put it in the closed club. I thought of putting it here, but in the end did not because I did not want certain ones peeing all over it. I put it on my own site as well, where I do not allow much peeing. It is too bad in a way not to post it here, because the post is all about things raised here—how anointed know they are anointed, who partakes, how they and those not anointed conduct themselves, and so forth. It is here:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2021/03/object-lessons-at-the-memorial-talk.html

There is a place for closed clubs. Everyone regards him or herself as a font of wisdom but after a while it gets old. When people choose a position, they often feel they do not want it relentlessly challenged by those who merely recycle the old arguments they have made countless times before. I hang out here far more than JWTalk because the mods there will not permit the free-ranging brawls that go on here. I have no problem that they do not. Their mission statement is clearly stated from the get-go. It is to provide a friendly supportive place where bros can chit-chat with the worldwide brotherhood.

They have several hoops one must leap through for admittance. It is possible to fool them short term, but probably not long, unless one says nothing. When I applied, they recognized me straight-off on account of the Sheepandgoats blog. They waived all requirements and I entered immediately as a platinum member (or whatever the designation was). I told them not to do it—let me work through the ranks like everyone else. But they held fast. (Practically speaking, I’m not sure what difference it makes. It may be that they allow a newbie to comment at first, but not post.)

There are quite a few mods and they are from all over the world. I think I have tested the patience of some of the more straight-arrow ones, but my status yet remains. It is not hard. It is the same as what I say about the brothers operating in any country. They find out what the king’s ground rules are, and then they follow them. Seldom is there a problem. You don’t have to make an issue over everything. If you don’t like something, leave.

[TrueTomHarley]

17 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

It came to mind the moment this person said, I MISS HIM (JTR). A proven apostate. Hmm! What kind of "tremendous" damage can that kind of person be for a congregation? So, who are these so-called, faithful. The same kind? You're zero for 300 hundred.

I couldn’t stand JTR when I first came across him. But as he yielded ever so slightly, and then substantially, before he crashed and burned over other issues, I came to like him.

In some ways, he was like you, only not hypocritical. He seems to have more or less behaved himself in whatever congregation he attended, but did not hide the fact that he had non-conforming views on many things. He acted ugly here, but less so than you. He certainly did not display abuse for individuals, as you routinely do. It is the overall organization he took issue with—bad, maybe, but not hypocritical.

[Pudgy]

Cesar Chavez is apparently as good a comedian as Lewis Black, whose comedy is partially based on him being angry at everything, all the time, and being seconds away from a detonation stroke.

 

[Pudgy]

What is a JTR?