Jump to content
The World News Media

Conscience individual and collective


xero

Recommended Posts

  • Member
19 hours ago, César Chávez said:

This forum was formed for disgruntled and disgusting fake witnesses to have a platform to complain without consequences. Something, "Thinking" is in favor of. Even though it goes against scripture. That kind of person is conflicted, as well.

I just keep wondering why you are here.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 15.9k
  • Replies 459
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

In the 1970's it was common for Bethelites to order Bible commentaries like Matthew Henry's and Barnes' Notes on the NT and various Bible translations. Later, they also allowed orders for Jay Green's

I liked your KH building experience. We've all had that experience when we would have made different decisions if we were in charge, and then we are glad we weren't. But I can't seem to fit your

Bingo. It’s the pure nastiness of one, not to mention the pure dodo-headedness of another. These annoy far more than the posts themselves, though sometimes the two are hard to unravel. After

Posted Images

  • Member
On 4/4/2021 at 9:08 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Exactly. I have this is the metadata of TrueTom vs the Apostates:

Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization. 

If apostates were huge in the first century, and they were, they should correspondingly be huge today. And they are. In our “apostates” we are validated. It is almost as though I am proud of ours.

What if modern day JWs had no apostates? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?

More click bate but from Tom this time.  It's so funny. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 4/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, xero said:

f I interpret this as providing the necessary tools to "do God's will" and "finish God's work" then I'd say that the organization known as the WTBS run by the governing body has done this.

The only necessary tool is the Bible. Above that of course is God's guidance by Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ. Those that will be inspired of Holy Spirit are the True Anointed. 

Hence the WTBS / GB / JW Org, not being inspired of God's Holy Spirit through Christ, can only produce rotten food. 

On 4/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, xero said:

Now whether they are right or wrong as to the timing of the arrival of the master of the harvest or not is immaterial

Is it ?  Maybe they shouldn't even be guessing at dates. 

On 4/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, xero said:

The work is the preaching the good news of God's Kingdom and doing this world wide.

I'd say this organization has kept it's focus and knows it's mission.

Oh if only they had kept their focus, but then did they even have focus ? 

The GB have spent more time promoting themselves as the F&DS and pretending to know when Armageddon will arrive. And they have spent time producing horrific looking magazines to frighten people. Magazines with disgusting pictures on the covers. THAT is not preaching GOOD NEWS. That is preaching doom and gloom. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

WOW!! Reverse psycho garbage!!

 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, you have a point there. That remark didn’t make any sense to me at all. I rolled my eyes and scrolled on.

Although Jesus was labeled as the apostate, the great apostasy was committed by the Pharisees and those who remained under their rule. 

Jesus said, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.”  Matt 7:13

Jesus is the gate, the door to eternal life – NOT an earthly organization full of 8 million or so people.  (John 10:7-10) How do Jesus' spiritual words transform into an earthly organization that contributes to the world of corruption? (Job 14:4)   His words are pure and true. (John 17:17)   We are not to add to them with rules and regulations from men; but clearly the organization demands it, since earthly “organization” requires it.   (Col 2:20-23; Gal 1:6,7)   This perversion of God’s word wasn’t approved by Jesus, or the apostles.  It is approved by false apostles pretending to be sent from God.  (Matt 24:24,25; 2 Thess 2:1-3; 2 Cor 11:13-15,4; Rev 2:20)

Gal 1:8,9 “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!”

What is the "other gospel "being preached by JWs?   It is that the organization is necessary for one's eternal life.  (Rom 1:25)

Under the Pharisaical rule in the organization, another great apostasy is at work.  When men are praised and admired while they teach their falsehoods (because they are excused for their “imperfections”), JWs choose to live in an environment of apostasy.

If the leadership of the organization was established by God and Jesus, we would see their teachings remaining. (John 15:16; Matt 7:20)  Old books would hold the same truth as today’s books, and what would be the necessity for new books then?  There would be no dates set for Armageddon (Dan 2:21), no excuses would be made for their errors such as the generation teachings which is a sign of spiritual famine. (Isa 28:23-26; Amos 8:11,12; Jer 23:16)  No disfellowshipping of those who do not tolerate lies. (Rev 13:4,15) No families would be severed for rejecting false prophesy, and an organization as the path of salvation, which is idolatry.  No victim of child abuse would suffer shame, and be rejected by their family.  (Matt 24:9-13; Luke 12:53; Micah 7:6)

Sin is never applied to the GB. NEVER. They are called imperfections. Yet, the operation of the organization under their care, is FULL of sin. (Rev 13:11,12) The GB are excused for their actions, by all JWs.  This is a slick trick; it is accomplished by evil deception. (2 Cor 11:3,4,13-15)

“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.”  1 John 1:8-10

“Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinningNo one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 1 John 3:4-6

Each obvious ploy to change doctrine by calling it “new light”, is a coverup for sin. Today, there is no compassion toward the sheep for the harm they have cause by teaching lies; and only those who spiritually wake up to the devastating harm this rulership has committed, can “feel” the affects of the thief’s purpose to “steal, kill and destroy”, by robbing them from Jesus Christ - who is the WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE - NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM.  (John 14:6)  

According to the organization, the person who rejects the false teachings, is called the sinner.  This contradicts the words of Christ and the Father, who expect us to leave false teachers, not “wait” for something to change.  We become sinners, if we continue to entertain false teachers.  Jesus pleaded with his people to leave the "organization" and its rule under the Pharisees.  (Luke 13:34)

 Jesus said his people were blind.  They could not hear the truth in his words. (John 12:38-41;2 Cor 4:4) They were arrogant, with hardened hearts.  However, the Pharisees knew Jesus was from God, but he was a threat to their earthly rule, so he had to be eliminated. (John 3:2; Mark 3:6) Today, if an anointed one stands up for truth, such as Ray Franz and so many others, they are the threat that must be eliminated.  (John 16:2; Rev 13:15)

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.”  Matt 23:33,34 

Any who leave these false teachers and their large system of religious government, are labeled the apostate.  Among these “apostates”, are those who enter the gate.  They obey the Father and Jesus, and follow his teachings. 

 I think the definition for “deceit” should be repeated:

the act of causing someone to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid : the act or practice of deceiving : deception achieving one's goals through a web of deceit.”

JWs were convinced to accept dates for Armageddon as solid proof from God’s word that these dates would be fulfilled.  People’s lives were affected, but did the organization’s leaders blame themselves for their sin, or did they put the blame on those who listened to them?

Here’s an example of a false prophet who caused God’s people to trust in a lie, which is what JWs are being promised by their leaders:

“Zephaniah the priest, however, read the letter to Jeremiah the prophet. 30 Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: 31 “Send this message to all the exiles: ‘This is what the Lord says about Shemaiah the Nehelamite: Because Shemaiah has prophesied to you, even though I did not send him, and has persuaded you to trust in lies, 32 this is what the Lord says: I will surely punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite and his descendants. He will have no one left among this people, nor will he see the good things I will do for my people, declares the Lord, because he has preached rebellion against me.’

Gerrit Loesch asks that you trust him, because he is a liar and knows it.  To preserve his prominence and his riches, he must persuade you, to trust him.  He is a liar to say God and Jesus trust him. He is rebelling against God.  (Prov 12:22; 19:9; Isa 59:2,3)  The Father has not changed. We have the same God that spoke to Jeremiah and to all the prophets about the sins of His people.    He sees the persuasions enforced for JWs to tolerate and accept the ongoing lies by men, which have been reoccurring since day one in the Wt.  How you all have forgotten the results of sin committed by the nation of Israel, and have been persuaded that spiritual "Israel" is not full of sin today.  

 God’s standards have not been lowered to accommodate the organization.  What a mockery to think they have.  All who put their trust in the GB and the organization, will have to face Jesus Christ for the choice they make. (Matt 7:21-23; Rev 16:13-16;18:4-8)

 

A Voice From Heaven/My People/Three Angels

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Crickets on how the weirdos in their basements eating Christ-Chex and baying at the moon are going to preach the good news of Gods Kingdom to the whole world.

All joking aside, I just don't see how it can get done unless you have an organization w/resources and a world-wide reach. This means you have to get serious not only about doctrine, but your methods of propagation. Too little attention to doctrine is an issue, as well as too little attention to its methods of propagation. Not saying anything specific means that you aren't serious, but that (being specific and serious) can land you in trouble as you overstep when you do say something specific.

Take the Catholic Church. Now it's doctrines are easy to blow away in the main, however they have attended to their own propagation w/in their organization. You see this w/any number of protestant groups as well. However to the extent that the reasons for not being Catholic aren't accentuated as highly important, to that extent to survive they have to be ecumenical and in so doing further undermine the arguments for their own existence. We see mega churches spending very little time w/doctrine and all about becoming a "full service" church w/lots of activities. These then stand for very little as well and then it becomes a competition to see which can provide the "best service" and this invariably revolves around personalities. The ministers in these necessarily balk at providing any serious discipline as these are being paid to serve. So of course there's going to be little in the way of discipline.

Then you have the weirdos who want to have a belly-button gazing form of Christianity which is all about the self - a spiritual narcissism and these can find any number of other weirdos to hang out with online and discuss 1st world issues.

None of these are going the right route. The message is garbled. Not so w/JW's. In fact as not-camera-ready as the GB obviously is this underscores the fact that this organization is dedicated to the message and avoiding the splintering which can occur if steps aren't taken to reign in people (like myself) who love to speculate. Nope, it's not about the personalities. They have taken steps to ensure the continuance and the propagation of the faith. Practical steps.

Right now the growth really appears to be in non-english speaking countries and in and among people who are much less privileged than those of us in the west. These are apparently quite happy w/the message they're receiving and it shows.

Ask yourself how many you imagine can even begin to wrap their minds around the arguments relative to 607 vs 586 BCE and lunar eclipses and the like. Like none. These are satisfied w/the basics and maybe we ought to ask ourselves the same questions. What are the real reasons for our gripes? (we've all had them) Then ask yourself "Is this important to the brothers and sisters in the third world countries or is this just me being impatient?"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
18 hours ago, xero said:

All joking aside, I just don't see how it can get done unless you have an organization w/resources and a world-wide reach. This means you have to get serious not only about doctrine, but your methods of propagation. Too little attention to doctrine is an issue, as well as too little attention to its methods of propagation. Not saying anything specific means that you aren't serious, but that (being specific and serious) can land you in trouble as you overstep when you do say something specific.

Resources = books and magazines which are the words of men. Uninspired men.  When all that is needed in printed form or online is God's written word.  Television studio to make the GB and their lies famous. 

Doctrine = man made interpretations and rules by the GB who are not inspired. 

being specific = pretending to know the day and the hour of Armageddon. Pretending the GB are the F&DS.  Telling the Anointed NOT to gather together.  Pretending that a person must be a baptised JW 'to be saved'. 

Like I've said before, it has now been proven that 'an organisaton' could have 'leaders' in many different countries and they could so easliy communicate via internet.  So the True Anointed could easily be based in, lets say, ten different countries. That way they would be more aware of 'world conditions' and what would be needed to really help people to come to know God properly. 

19 hours ago, xero said:

Right now the growth really appears to be in non-english speaking countries and in and among people who are much less privileged than those of us in the west. These are apparently quite happy w/the message they're receiving and it shows.

What you are politely saying here is that the less well educated are now being lied to and because they do no know any different they are accepting it.  There are people that 'happily accept' the lie that all dead people go to heaven too.  Lies are lies even if they make people happy. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
46 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Lies are lies even if they make people happy. 

 

This reminds me of Jer 5:30,31 which sums up the GB/false prophets, and the elder "priests" who "represent the royal priesthood"; and whose authority to do so, cannot be challenged.

“A horrible and shocking thing
    has happened in the land:

The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way. But what will you do in the end?"

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, xero said:

Life is so much better now that I've learned my lesson of not peeking at the posts of the mentally ill.

It is hard to face truth, is this the real reason why you have decided not to peek?  

So, Your GB member A. Morris is totally sane about expressing what Armageddon will be like – people dead along the streets, looking like “charred hotdogs”.  This said in a mixed audience of adults and children.

If I was to wager, I would say A. Morris who has a very boastful appearance before all, most definitely has a demon causing his mental illness; and it doesn’t necessarily come from a bottle.  Of course, his character in these matters probably doesn’t come up too much in conversation among JWs.

"We are not trying again to recommend ourselves to you; rather, we are trying to give you a good reason to be proud of us, so that you will be able to answer those who boast about people's appearance and not about their character. 13 Are we really insane? It is for God's sake. Or are we sane? Then it is for your sake. 14 We are ruled by the love of Christ, now that we recognize that one man died for everyone, which means that they all share in his death. 15 He died for all, so that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but only for him who died and was raised to life for their sake."  2 Cor 5:12-15

When one of the GB members gets up from the table of lies and decides to follow Jesus Christ outside of the idol/organization, then we will know that he no longer lives for himself.  

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Conscience needs community. A reasonable person would recognize that there might be things they approve of that perhaps they shouldn't and things that they don't approve of that they should.

Without exposing one's rationale to others who care and are in principle on the side of Jehovah and his word we could easily find ourselves disappearing into a basement somewhere believing and approving of all manner or weird stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

    • Pudgy

      Pudgy 2,381

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,670
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Apolos2000
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.