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Conscience individual and collective


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7 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But please give me 5 examples of this 'first century' slackness, where the 'followers' cut their leaders some slack. 

Ever wonder from where the reports came that early Christians went in for cannibalism? 

He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. ...

Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?”  (From John 6)

Jesus faithful disciples cut him slack for that statement.. 

And that is with a perfect man. Don’t get me going with the imperfect ones, which I will not assemble for you, because you will, as usual, find them “all so funny.”

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Bingo. It’s the pure nastiness of one, not to mention the pure dodo-headedness of another. These annoy far more than the posts themselves, though sometimes the two are hard to unravel. After Paul makes his speech in the Areopagus, he says: “Okay. Been there/done that. If I don’t keep looking upon all these idols, maybe I won’t keep getting so irritated. Maybe I can get around to writing some of those epistles that have been kicking around in the back of my head.” People have dif

I liked your KH building experience. We've all had that experience when we would have made different decisions if we were in charge, and then we are glad we weren't. But I can't seem to fit your musing on conscience into what I thought was the most common use of the term "conscience" in the Bible. Of course, it might be right anyway, depending on what you mean by consequences. For example: Let's say that you would love the experience of eating roast beef a couple times a week, but depe

In the 1970's it was common for Bethelites to order Bible commentaries like Matthew Henry's and Barnes' Notes on the NT and various Bible translations. Later, they also allowed orders for Jay Green's Hebrew Interlinear and William Whiston's Josephus. Bethelites paid for them, but the price was fairly low because all requests were ordered through a one of Dean Songer's assistants. Then there was a meeting in 1979, and all such books became impossible to order, and anyone who already had them

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14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There is a scene in a Netflix show I just watched a few days ago where "Reporter Jack" asks Jerry Rubin a loaded question containing a false supposition, and Jerry Rubin answers: "You've posed that question in the form of a lie."

Leaders of a Jehovah's Witnesses church 'made a 15-year-old girl listen to an audio tape of her own rape for four hours for her to say it was "consensual"', Utah Supreme Court hears

It would seem that JWs use the same tactics. 

    Hello guest!

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12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I'd say it was more of a mental condition, referring to the metaphorical difference between heart and mind. I am just admitting that the elders likely made a mistake, probably because they assumed that neither of these were truly anointed, because of traditional conditioning around previous teachings. (Assumptions about the "Replacement doctrine," "seniority," worthiness, etc.)

 

So then tell me, Who is the guilty party here ? 

the elders likely made a mistake, probably because they assumed that neither of these were truly anointed, because of traditional conditioning around previous teachings.

because of traditional conditioning around previous teachings. Tell us about this bit please.

Conditioning.......... Brain washing, indoctrination. 

Previous teachings............... False 'truth'. Fake information from a fake leadership. 

You and Tom write sentences so freely, without really thinking about what you are writing. 

But in truth you are admitting that the GB and the Elders are not fit for purpose. 

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12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. ...

Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?”  (From John 6)

That's a good one. Jesus was obviously testing them because it does sound off putting. So those that stayed with him. Did they stay because Holy Spirit guided their hearts and minds, or was it that they simply didn't have anywhere else to go ? 

It was a bit of a sheep and goats dividing moment maybe.

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9 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You and Tom write sentences so freely, without really thinking about what you are writing. 

I'm sure that whenever someone admits a fault about themselves, or the organization they are associated with, or a fault among the first century anointed apostles and disciples, we are already aware that some persons will be anxious to jump on those faults to either trash the confessor, the associated organization, or even to trash the anointed apostles of Jesus themselves. It all depends on the themes that people wish to focus on. Your themes are well-known. But I think most people can see through an obsession for trashing the WTS organization with any excuse possible.

I expect that if a non-Witness participant here writes something about Bitcoin, you would look for a way to say:

"Just like your GB because they cover up CSA, and we should wait for a True Anointed to tell us whether we should use Bitcoin."

Yes, that was facetious and insulting, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't already happened in parts of the forum that I don't bother to read.

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14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I am not aware of "many accounts" but if we're honest, I'd bet that most of us here know of at least one case in any average sized congregation. I just wrote up a related experience of a sister who I think no one would consider mentally imbalanced, but who was told to hold off a few years partaking in public because awareness of her "calling" was causing distress for another sister who was then only one in that congregation who partook. I just removed the long-winded version of the experience because it's too easy to figure out who these ones were.

Everything is wrong with this picture.

Everything.

The distressed sister was preventing another member of the Body to “partake”. Perhaps she was enjoying her presumed prestige she experienced in that congregation?  She couldn’t tolerate a rival.  The sister who went to the elder is equally guilty, if she listened to him and did not partake.  Her first inclination should have been to approach the distressed sister with scriptures, who should have been over the moon knowing another anointed had joined her. (1 Cor 12:15-26; 11:33)  Perhaps it is only in her own mind that the distressed one had put herself upon a pedestal…sort of like her example, Tony Morris.   

The elder, is also guilty.  He is not the mediator between Jesus Christ and the members of his body. (1 Tim 2:5)   But, that is the setup of the organization, and it is blasphemy.  Rev 13:5-8)  They have the power to rule over a spiritual nation, the “special possession” of God, and the anointed allow it.  Whenever this has happened in the past with Israel, it is because of their sins.  The anointed have left Jesus Christ and allowed men to dictate their every move.

Gal 1:10 - For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

Obviously, the example provided shows this. 

The elders, “represent the royal priesthood”, which means, they are an active representation of God’s priests.  They are acting in the capacity of priests.  On the other hand, the members of God’s authentic priesthood are told they cannot act as priests until the Kingdom.  In actuality, they are treated no different than any other JW.  But their representatives are treated with honor.  Every JW is told they must submit to their decrees.  This has made it convenient, for men to rule over and trample the anointed.  The power of the holy ones (aside of any who may be anointed within the GB at present) does not exist.  (Dan 12:7; Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4) And, the GB's power does not come from Jesus Christ anyway.  (Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,12)

Mal 2:7 - “For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth.”

The dichotomy to Mal 2:7 is this:

The lips of the elders who “represent the royal priesthood” ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the GB, and JWs seek instruction from his mouth.

 

 

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13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I'm sure that whenever someone admits a fault about themselves, or the organization they are associated with, or a fault among the first century anointed apostles and disciples,

Fault 1  mixing up 'the org' with the first century anointed.

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

we are already aware that some persons will be anxious to jump on those faults to either trash the confessor, the associated organization, or even to trash the anointed apostles of Jesus themselves.

Fault 2. similar to fault 1 but even more insulting to the anointed apostles of Christ. 

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But I think most people can see through an obsession for trashing the WTS organization with any excuse possible.

Fault 3. Presuming that anyone wishes to 'trash' the WTS org, using excuses not facts. 

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I expect that if a non-Witness participant here writes something about Bitcoin, you would look for a way to say:

"Just like your GB because they cover up CSA, and we should wait for a True Anointed to tell us whether we should use Bitcoin."

Fault 4. Creating a diversion by misplacing the blame, because you do not have truthful answers. 

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Yes, that was facetious and insulting, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't already happened in parts of the forum that I don't bother to read.

Fault 5. Fantasising without basis. 

Um, well done. quite good overall :)  You see I can laugh at myself and accept your insults, and not get bitter or angry. Have a great day. 

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2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

What does that say about tradition? 😏

It says that tradition does not choose its "victims".

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Your thinking like him. Think for yourself.

Cesar, you sound like burdened church member. Obsessed with phantasms. Please, use your argumentation about topic, you are better in that, and .... i like to discuss with you. :)   

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39 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Um, well done. quite good overall :) 

Thanks.

I was exaggerating, of course, but I just noticed that you posted a few minutes ago in the topic: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/86713-modern-society-and-censorship/

The admin's post included the following about censorship:

On 2/9/2020 at 12:10 AM, admin said:

Modern society seems so quick to want to muzzle people.

No tolerance of different ideologies. . . .  I started off believing in "Free Speech"

There is a line.... it just seems like the world has moved that line way too close to embracing "Big Brother" mentality.

This was in a non-religious part of the forum, posted by someone who probably knows comparatively little about JWs. So, months ago, you responded to that post with:

On 2/11/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

He must be talking about JW Org here 

You see what I'm talking about?

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3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Of course Tom will now provide proof of God's true guidance and give names of the organisations that God used from the year 100 through to 1800.

I like this. You made excellent quote. WTJWorg publications only contain the claim that there were always people who worshiped YHVH between the 1st century and the appearance of Russell.

Not once did they name any "organization." So we have no indication, no evidence from WTJWrg, that God used any organized system (organization) and people who would be part of that system as believers / members.

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12 hours ago, JW Insider said:
On 2/10/2020 at 10:21 PM, 4Jah2me said:

He must be talking about JW Org here 

You see what I'm talking about?

:)  Yes  I agree with you, and i laugh about it.  But it fitted so well, about Big Brother / GB and want to muzzle people /  keep everything inside the Org, only tell the elders. 

The topic was about the world, but it shows how the GB / W/t / JW Org mimic the world closely. 

 

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7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

You see I can laugh at myself

Well, I should hope so, for there is certainly plenty to laugh about.

For example, you chuckled your way through this one: “Ever wonder from where the reports came that early Christians went in for cannibalism?”

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

That's a good one. Jesus was obviously testing them because it does sound off putting.

Yeah, it does. Check with JWI, because you won’t know it yourself, and he will confirm that the early Christians were accused of cannibalism; it was one of the unhinged charges made against the faith, and resulting persecution caused much suffering, even loss of life. That statement of Jesus was used to justify the preposterous accusation.

That something that makes you roll with laughter, too?

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