Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For crying out loud, we hadn’t even located land yet!

As an aside, here, I keep hearing more talk that the WTS is transitioning to no more KH at all, just assembly halls and larger conventions perhaps. It's not just us, but churches, too, have spoken about the success they have had with Zoom in terms of attendance. I fear that it would be a losing decision about the KH's if this rumor is true, but attendance numbers on Zoom have normalized and even risen for some churches.

For us, I fear that less physical gathering would result in more drifting, too much video content, less local participation and enthusiasm. Even --dare I say it?-- more marriages to unbelieving mates!

[xero]

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

As an aside, here, I keep hearing more talk that the WTS is transitioning to no more KH at all, just assembly halls and larger conventions perhaps. It's not just us, but churches, too, have spoken about the success they have had with Zoom in terms of attendance. I fear that it would be a losing decision about the KH's if this rumor is true, but attendance numbers on Zoom have normalized and even risen for some churches.

For us, I fear that less physical gathering would result in more drifting, too much video content, less local participation and enthusiasm. Even, dare I say it, marriages to unbelievers.

For TTH I'm changing that last sentence to: "Even --dare I say it?-- marriages to unbelievers!"

BTW I hate the zoom crap. I want to feel the breath and spittle of the speakers on my face.

[ComfortMyPeople]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

As an aside, here, I keep hearing more talk that the WTS is transitioning to no more KH at all, just assembly halls and larger conventions perhaps. It's not just us, but churches, too, have spoken about the success they have had with Zoom in terms of attendance. I fear that it would be a losing decision about the KH's if this rumor is true, but attendance numbers on Zoom have normalized and even risen for some churches.

For us, I fear that less physical gathering would result in more drifting, too much video content, less local participation and enthusiasm. Even, dare I say it, marriages to unbelievers.

 

My vision is that the G.B. Please note that the format that we have followed for decades is not the only one. I mean: since there were 3 big annual meetings in Israel, we had three big meetings -assemblies-.

Kissing, hugging, touching, "sniffing" us is biblical and appropriate. But during the week the meeting ends late, the children have to go to school early, they have to have dinner ... Well, why not the meeting during the week for zoom, and the face-to-face weekend, at the k.h.?

Large assemblies could be made voluntary. Brothers eager to meet others, to meet, to embrace, to take photos, to meet potential future spouses... These meetings could be prepared and voluntarily attended (as now international ones)

But those of us who want to listen, learn, those of us who do not have much money, or many children, or sick family members, and who attend an assembly lasting several days involves a great effort and small returns (in terms of learning), because we could have those assemblies in the zoom format, for several weekends, like lately.

It follows from the above that all assembly halls could be sold. Send home hundreds of brothers who are employed to support them. Save thousands of hours of volunteer work preparing assemblies worldwide, save money ...

To keep it short: we would use the best of both worlds. Face-to-face + zoom.

(Sometimes I ask Jehovah to "enlighten the C.G. on this - sure, but I suppose that many, many factors escape me ,,,)

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I keep hearing more talk that the WTS is transitioning to no more KH at all,

Talk from where?

[JW Insider]

1 minute ago, Outta Here said:

Talk from where?

A CO who talked to my father about a requested upgrade to the sound system in the KH and who recommended that this upgrade effort go towards a different need in the Norco Assembly Hall. I heard something like it from a trusted elder in NYC. He claims it's talk from "higher up," and I didn't press him.

[Evacuated]

5 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

from "higher up,"

Interesting. I like Zoom meetings across the board for many reasons. But no KH? I can see KH and Zoom or some other video platform, but no KH from our end sounds a bit odd. Circumstantial imposition like Russia I can see as time goes on, but voluntarily? That would be a game changer.

[Melinda Mills]

I don't think I wish to be responsible for transporting people, for several reasons, so that would suit me, but I would like to see other members in person from time to time.

[JW Insider]

3 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

I like Zoom meetings across the board for many reasons.

Me too. As I see my parents getting older, I see that the Zoom meetings work for them better than the telephone connection which they have used on occasion in the past.

We used to have a KH in the suburb where I live and we consolidated with another KH two towns north of here. No travel problems because it's only an extra 3 miles, and we traveled more than a mile as it was. But the decision included two factors. We could sell our local Hall for more money and use it to upgrade the other Hall, which is now central to 5 congregations (although it hasn't been used for months). The other reason for the decision is that the "new" Hall provides better "advertising" on a highly traveled street. The old Hall was nicer looking, but out of the way.

I think this is an important factor. I've mentioned before that a local "evangelical" church that bought an old synagogue nearby has turned it into something like a mega-church that draws literally three hundred cars twice on Saturday and twice on Sunday, which has started up again these last two months bigger than when they stopped last year for Covid-19. I don't know if these are different services for the same "congregation" or for multiple "congregations" but I'm guessing the latter. It also serves as a large food and charity distribution center since Covid-19. This provides them with a lot of easy "advertising" and I bet that's a reason for part of their growth.

Giving up the KH would be nearly impossible to imagine, and as it is, I think an entire community of two or three suburban towns would wonder what happened to us if that Hall disappeared.

[ComfortMyPeople]

1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

Talk from where?

ABOUT WHERE IT'S BEING HEARD...

@JW Insider has referred some comments for others. I have other sources as well. A Bethelite with many years at the world headquarters tells me that when they meet by chance some members of the G.B. half jokingly, half seriously, they comment aloud things like "how well the zoom meetings work, how well everything is working" or the like. I know that these brothers want the G.B. keep thinking that there is a new approach to celebrate meetings, that they consider it.

WEEKLY IN-HOUSE MEETINGS
The face-to-face meetings, held in a physical location, I see as absolutely essential. There are emotional, delicate and uplifting conversations that I myself cannot have with some brothers because I cannot touch or see them up close (perhaps things from my Mediterranean culture). This is only one of the negative effects of not having face-to-face meetings, among many others that could be cited. Now, where in the Bible does it say that there are to be one, two, or three weekly meetings? Do biblical principles prevent some of these meetings from being in an online format?

Real -positive- cases that are occurring due to the zoom meetings:

A brother who comes home late from work, often missed the meeting or was late, because it is not enough for him to just get home, he has to fix himself, go back to the K.H., park the car ... Now He says he's arriving, puts on his tie, and you're done!

Young couples with small children who used to return late from the meeting on weekdays. When he returned, it was his turn to feed the children and fix them for bed. Now he saves a lot of time.

Brothers who at the time of the meeting have some discomfort or another and do not see themselves with the strength to go to the meeting. Being less expensive (even if they look bad for health they turn off the video) they don't miss the zoom meeting at home.

Saving effort, time, money ... well, there would be more, but not to extend myself.

THE ASSEMBLIES
I think it is another anachronism: as Israel had three major annual conventions, so did we. As I have said before, many brothers attend the assembly and find out absolutely nothing: they take care of young children or relatives in poor health. They get up early every day to get ready and be at the assembly hall on time. They invest money in this process. Then you are asked to spend about 5 hours of attentive program, taking notes and everything.

The benefits of zoom assemblies have been impressive. We can listen, repeat the videos, absorb the information much better, save effort, money.

On the latter, thousands and thousands of brothers have invested hours of work for the preparations of the assemblies, or for the weekly care of the premises in the case of the assembly halls. Many of us have missed entire programs doing essential work for the operation of the program.

And isn't it nice that we see thousands of brothers in a beautiful assembly hall? Yes of course! That is why I say that, following the format of international assemblies, these face-to-face assemblies should be scheduled each year. Families and siblings whose personal and financial circumstances allow them to attend in a given year would simply sign up to attend. The rest would see the assembly at home, or in kingdom halls, in short, in zoom format, like last year.

THE PERSECUTION
The JWs believe that we will soon face a worldwide violent persecution that will affect our meetings (as now in Russia, but all over the world). Therefore, the ideal would be to continue having experience in this type of online format.

Well, I better not extend myself further. I don't know what you think. I'm sure that I left things in the pipeline, and I don't think I have the absolute truth, let me know!
 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

I don't know what you think.

I think it’s pretty intriguing. You state the benefits well.

2 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

I'm sure that I left things in the pipeline

Can’t go wrong when you leave things in the pipeline, for others to pick up on or not.

[Arauna]

I read recently that China was taking Christians into custody that were regularly using zoom. I think the platform will allow for this type of government abuse.  In the end it could make all of us more vulnerable.  I do not know what is the solution because the JW app has now been banned in Russia.  So a JW meeting app may not work either.   

I think we are reaching a time where we all will have to be ready to stand up for our faith and even go to "re-education camps"  for it..... it is this serious. 

I have also heard of kingdom halls that were successfully sold.  There is a boom in property sales now (a massive bubble)- so the GB will get some money to go on from selling properties.  They must sell while the boom lasts. Halls cost money to maintain with no-one using it.

Inflation is going up and the stock market and housing market is artificially high (just as before the great depression).  The dollar has lost so much of its value that the food prices will soon be shooting up.

We really are close to a great catastrophe.....  The central banks will soon replace the physical money with digital money and start a new fiat digital  currency to keep the world gong. They want to centrally control all of us.  The money you have in your bank and the house which is yours may be nationalized.  Gold and siver can be taken away and bitcoin may be illegal. When we do not comply to their moral standards (being Christians) our "universal income" will be cut off.  The hate towards Christians is growing.  We are not the same as other Christians ... but to them we are part of that category.

The GB are smart to let kingdom halls go as we can no longer physically meet.  The vaccination will not stop (more to come) as it gives them control over us.  It is the beginning of a series of vaccinations. People are starting to wake up to the manipulation going on but we are like helpless little birds in a trap - only Jehovah can remove us from it by some miracle.

The Ezekiel book we did 3 weeks ago reminded me of our situation now.  The city (world) in lockdown and a third dying of hunger and pestilence - the rest by the sword. Those fleeing will also be pursued.  Pretty grim picture but I think it is very possible for our time.

The final climax of the world where science and tech (human pride for what they can achieve)  is the new god. They will use it for oppression because they are imperfect and they are all atheist. 

Keep the faith, attend the meetings as long as possible and stay true to Jehovah. Do not get the mark of the beast (any identification as putting trust in any part of the world political system.)  Human institutions are now all corrupt and soon will be obsolete. 

[Witness]

On 4/10/2021 at 7:37 AM, ComfortMyPeople said:

since there were 3 big annual meetings in Israel, we had three big meetings -assemblies-.

I don’t recall the apostles conforming to the belief of three major meetings per year.   Their goal was to make the effort to move away from such traditions. (Col 2:16,17)    I use to swallow down the idea that three yearly meeting were “biblical”, but with the coming of Jesus Christ and the “new” way to worship – in spirit and in truth – I now see the organization reverting right back to beliefs before Jesus came to earth.  Is Jesus the organization's stumbling block? Is it caught between a hybrid of worship involving the nation of Israel, and its temple worship and traditions, while refusing to accept and recognize the "temple" worship that involves "Israel"?

  The anointed since Christ, “Israel”, do not need to observe an earthly pattern of worship, but only the heavenly, involving the heavenly Temple, and not the earthly desires for “organization”.   (Heb 8:3-6; Col 3:2; 2:8) (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)

We need to keep in mind that God's dwelling/Temple today, has been trampled by men assuming to formulate their own form of worship.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)

“When you come to appear before Me,
Who has required this from your hand,
To trample My courts?
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood."  Isa 1:12-15

Rev 16:4-7