Jump to content
The World News Media

The sealing of the 144,000 is at hand...


BroRando
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Member
19 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

If you think Satan was upset about 1914, he will certainly go ballistic when he learns that the Last Days are coming to their end in 2034. 

It is true that Satan is on the warpath because he is soon to lose his kingdom. (Rev 20:7-9)  But what happened in 1914 was not because Jesus became King.  Satan was accommodating a false prophesy. Jesus became king in the first century.  

(John 18:33,36,37; Matt 21:1-5; Luke 17:21; 1 Pet 3:22; Matt 28:18; Eph 1:20; Ps 110:1; 1 Cor 15:25; 2 Pet 3:8; Mat 12:8; Isa 60:22)

The literal signs of the end times that you and Wt state are the result of Jesus’ kingship, happened in Satan’s realm. Jesus said his kingdom is no part of this world. (John 18:36) Why then, would the signs of his kingdom in power show literal signs in the world?  The “war” is not fought on the ground, but as     Eph 6:12 says, it is fought in the heavenly realms, unseen to the physical eye. That is where the “signs” take on a symbolic meaning.  Satan is the author of deceit and confusion, just as the historic teaching of 1914 has proven to be.  If we look for literal signs of worldly havoc on the earth, then who’s to say another point in history could have been chosen otherwise, as a sign of Jesus’ “invisible” reign?  WWII was the deadliest war in history.  Why not chose 1939 as the date Jesus became a reigning king?  

The organization is no different than the early Jews, who expected Jesus to provide them with literal signs.

Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. He answered and said to them, “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the timesA wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed. Matt 16:1-4

Do you see?  We are not to look at the literal “face of the sky” to observe when Jesus began ruling, or a specific date for the end of the world.  But, whatever JWs want to see, Satan will provide it.

 When Jesus said,

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”  Matt 24:29

…is he meaning literal signs on the face of the sky? What are the “heavens” that will be shaken?  The “moon” is the promised “woman” New Covenant, her seed are the anointed heavenly “stars”.  Do you see how they can be “heavenly” even though they are on the earth? (Gal 4:26; Heb 12:22; Rev 12:1,2;1:20; Dan 12:3) It is through them, through their “tribulation” that the Kingdom of God will be ushered in. It is THEY, who are “shaken”.   (Heb 12:25-29; Rev 6:13; Dan 8:10)  These “earthquakes” that Jesus speaks of in Matt 24:7, this shaking, is the harvest of the “sons of the kingdom”, of “Israel”.  (Matt 13:37-43)

Amos 9:9 – “For I will give the command, and I will shake the people of Israel among all the nations as grain is shaken in a sieve, and not a pebble will reach the ground. All the sinners among My people
    will die by the sword,
all those who say,
    ‘Disaster will not overtake or meet us.’”  ( 1 Thess 5:3)  (Do you believe you will be saved from disaster as a member of the organization?)

Be assured, Satan is quite capable of throwing you a curve ball to draw you away from the true “war” at hand. The tribulation has to do with those under covenant, accepting lies that Satan and his agents put before them, or defending truth that must be received by rejecting the lies, at the cost of the life they once enjoyed. (Rev 3:18) They must follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, and not the teachings of men who devise their own doctrine.  (Rev 13:1,2,5-7,11,12,15; 16:13-16) (Matt 10:18,22,39; John 16:2)

Yet, JWs seem to love “new” doctrine.  Jer 2:31,35,36; 5:31

By taking 1914, a date said to be the “birth” of Kingdom, that the “day of the lord” has come, your whole premise of calculating when the world will end, has no meaning.  Do you also believe that labor pains follow a birth as your leaders do? 

w53 12/15 p. 756-757 - The kingdoms of this world had their death warrant sealed when the “appointed times of the nations” expired in 1914. They cannot stand up against the kingdom that was then born in the heavens

ws13 7/15 p. 4-5 - So the war that began in 1914 was not the beginning of the great tribulation. It was the “beginning of pangs of distress.” (

    Hello guest!

The accurate translation for “pangs of distress” in Matt 24:8:

ὠδίν ōdín, o-deen'; akin to 

    Hello guest!
; a pang or throe, especially of childbirth:—pain, sorrow, travail.

Check the rendition for this scripture in various translations. You will find that the general use is “birth pangs”. 

The same word is found in 1 Thess 5:3 – “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail 

    Hello guest!
 upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

You are believing that a kingdom was “born”, and its evidence is the “birth pangs” that follow the birth.  Does this make sense?  The Kingdom that will be “born”, is God’s Kingdom, and this is through the fulfillment of the “woman” New Covenant – the Temple of “living stones” reaching completion, when the capstone is sealed.  Zech 4:7-9

How is it you can quote scriptures guarding against false predictions, but then decide it is okay to calculate a year when the world will end?  Isn’t this showing disrespect for caution outlined in the God's word?  Although the apostles spoke of the day being close, they never set a date.  Are you greater than these men, the foundation stones of truth? (Eph 2:20-22) Have you been told by God through a vision to provide us with a date?  Or, did you get out your calculator and put numbers together, just as all the leaders of the Wt have done?  I know I’m blunt, but please, think about the ramifications of going against the admonition outlined in the Word of God.

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the Day of the Lord  has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2 Thess 2:1-4

 

    Hello guest!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 1.1k
  • Replies 38
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Don't forget the apostle John and the apostle Paul and Matthew: (Revelation 1:5) 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . . (1 Timothy 6:14, 15) . . .until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords. . . (1 Corinthians 15:24-27) . . .. 25 For he

How? When Jesus became king and sat on the throne he was already king. It's true he had to wait until the proper time to conquer all enemies, as the last enemy death would not be conquered until the thousand years would be ended. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't ruling in the midst of those enemies before they would be conquered.  We don't say that when a king sits on his throne that he is not really a king yet, and that sitting on a throne just means waiting until you get the ti

Absolute lie. King David and Solomon: 1 Kings 1:30 - “I will surely carry out this very day what I swore to you by the Lord, the God of Israel: Solomon your son shall be king after me, and he will sit on my throne in my place.” 1 Chron 29:23 – “So Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king in place of his father David. He prospered and all Israel obeyed him.” Prov 20:8 – “When a king sits on his throne to judge, he winnows out all evil with his eyes.” Jesus Christ:

Posted Images

  • Member
17 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Yes, only you, JWI, Eloin Joyce, along with many confused people believe, this false narrative. Your out of reality conclusions has NO scriptural support. If you are confused, Jesus himself said his kingdom was not part of this world. Therefore, he was NOT a literal King. Now what about a spiritual king. He had not yet ascended to the father, and his sacrifice had not yet been accepted by God. So, his time on earth, did not make him a spiritual king, but a beacon of being a Spiritual leader. The best one man had ever seen. So, 30, 33 CE is out of the question.

Now when Jesus did ascend to the father, he sat down in the right hand of God. This of course means, Jesus would have to wait for a period of time, before God would grant him the thorn.

For that, try to understand Matthew 16:19 and Luke 8:10, if you can. Hint, the preaching work continues.

Matthew 28 from verse 18.

Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Jesus was resurrected by his Father, Almighty God. That in itself proves Jesus had God's complete approval....  So you can see that when Jesus was resurrected as a spirit he was also given ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH. 

Your leaders the GB just cannot accept that Jesus received the authority immediately after his resurrection. But then your leaders the GB cannot even obey the words of Jesus about baptism either. 

Your GB prove to be false or dishonest anointed but still you JWs follow them 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Now when Jesus did ascend to the father, he sat down in the right hand of God. This of course means, Jesus would have to wait for a period of time, before God would grant him the thorn.

Absolute lie.

King David and Solomon:

1 Kings 1:30 - “I will surely carry out this very day what I swore to you by the Lord, the God of Israel: Solomon your son shall be king after me, and he will sit on my throne in my place.

1 Chron 29:23 – “So Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king in place of his father David. He prospered and all Israel obeyed him.”

Prov 20:8 – “When a king sits on his throne to judge, he winnows out all evil with his eyes.”

Jesus Christ:

Ps 110:1,2 The Lord says to my lord:

Sit at my right hand
    until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet.”

The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying,
    “Rule in the midst of your enemies!”

Sitting on a throne = ruling/judging/reigning as a king.

Jesus Christ:

1 Cor 15:25-27 – “For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”

Heb 8:1 – “Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven

Heb 12:2 – “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

King Herod:

Acts 12:21 – “On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people.”

Here, Jesus is standing, well before 1914!:

Acts 7:55,56 - But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

 

Jesus and his faithful ruling priests/kings:

Rev 3:21 - “To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.”

The Heavenly Father also “sits” on His throne.  Are you saying He is not reigning as King? Dan 7:9;Rev 4:1-3

The scriptures cannot be refuted.  The doctrine of 1914 is blasphemy.   To assume that Christ was not ruling since the first century is the result of Satan's deceit.  Satan "rules" over his kingdom on earth and doesn't want to lose it.  Jesus Christ is his enemy.  Who would tell lies about Jesus' authority to rule since the first century?  Men, who preach "another Jesus" and who are influenced by demonic spirits. (2 Cor 11:1-4,13-15; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 16:13-16)

    Hello guest!

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Always, Wt provides a hint, a taste of truth, followed with a cupful of lies to mask it:

 

"Starting at that time, in 33 C.E., Christ began ruling over the Christian congregation, and his followers happily acknowledged his lordship and heavenly position. (

    Hello guest!
) Yet it was not God’s purpose for Jesus to begin ruling over the world of mankind and the universe then.  
    Hello guest!

 

 

Jesus is the King of God's Kingdom in heaven. He began ruling in 

    Hello guest!
.
    Hello guest!
.
    Hello guest!

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Yes, only you, JWI, Eloin Joyce, along with many confused people believe, this false narrative.

Don't forget the apostle John and the apostle Paul and Matthew:

(Revelation 1:5) 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . .

(1 Timothy 6:14, 15) . . .until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords. . .

(1 Corinthians 15:24-27) . . .. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.

(Ephesians 1:20, 21) . . .which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.

Also the writer of Hebrews, possibly also Paul:

(Hebrews 1:3) . . .and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. . .

(Hebrews 1:8) . . .But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. . .

(Hebrews 2:7-9) . . .you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, . . .

And Matthew:

(Matthew 28:18) . . .Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

And Hebrews again:

(Hebrews 6:20-7:3) . . .in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek forever. 7 For this Mel·chizʹe·dek, king of Saʹlem, priest of the Most High God, . . . First, his name is translated “King of Righteousness,” and then also king of Saʹlem, that is, “King of Peace.” 3 . . . but being made like the Son of God. . .

I have seen you flail and sling mud and try to cause chaos rather than attempt to answer these questions:

When Jesus received all authority in the first century, when did he receive more authority?

What made Jesus a priest like Melchizedek if he was not also a king and priest at the same time?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

When Jesus received all authority in the first century, when did he receive more authority?

    Hello guest!
The Fulfillment of Prophecies are 'timed events'.  They have a Beginning and an End to them which covers a specific time period. Knowing such dates of a prophecy once revealed to those who are being ministered to, does not necessarily beget salvation. It doesn't give a person divine protection or extraordinary insight but it may make a person more accountable to Jehovah.”  One would need to walk by faith...

Even though Jesus admitted of not knowing the timing of his Presence and the conclusion of the system of things, the Bible already had 1914 imbedded in scripture in the book of Daniel.  

The “seven times” was a calculation of the Jewish year of 360 days. Simple math 7 x 360 = 2520 days. Apply a day for a year. The seven times is actually a reference to the allotted time limit of the Gentiles. It is a ‘timed event’.

A good way to calculate this, is that there seems to be a year missing. There was 3 months left on 606 BCE when the counting of the time limit began and 9 months to count of the year when the time limit of the Gentile Times came to its conclusion. That’s 1 year. Now, take a calculator and put in 606 then hit the +/- sign so it shows -606 then add 2520 to it. What year do you come up with?

    Hello guest!

 

A few scriptures to point  to Christ's Presence in Kingdom Glory.

"After this I saw another

    Hello guest!
 descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory." (
    Hello guest!
)

"the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (

    Hello guest!
)  Note *  Commanding Call, Archangel's Voice, and God's Trumpet identifies the Word of God's Identity.

 "During that time {

    Hello guest!
} will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt." (
    Hello guest!
) * This is when the Great Prince became King.  When He Stood Up in
    Hello guest!
.

"And war broke out in heaven: {

    Hello guest!
} battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (
    Hello guest!
)

"Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time." (

    Hello guest!
)

Hope this helps.

    Hello guest!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

A good way to calculate this, is that there seems to be a year missing. There was 3 months left on 606 BCE when the counting of the time limit began and 9 months to count of the year when the time limit of the Gentile Times came to its conclusion. That’s 1 year. Now, take a calculator and put in 606 then hit the +/- sign so it shows -606 then add 2520 to it. What year do you come up with?

    Hello guest!

You use a calculator, and choose your sums over God's Word. 

 I don't think you understood what JWI asked:

"When Jesus received all authority in the first century, when did he receive more authority?" (Matt 28:18)

 

 

Do you recognize God's authority?

"Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority. "

If God was to give anyone authority to know the date when this world comes to an end, wouldn't He give it to Jesus Christ, and not to a man with a calculator?

"Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”  Rev 5:1-5

You said something somewhere that you calculate a literal thousand years as a literal day (or vice versa) in 2 Pet 3:8, to aid in your calculations.  Jesus and the apostles talked about "day" in different ways, which shows that 2 Pet 3:8 is explaining that God's "thousand year" time period, cannot be limited by men; but you are doing exactly that.

Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light. 10 It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”  John 1:9,10

Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going.”  John 12:35

“The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.”  Rom 13:1

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
23 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Even though Jesus admitted of not knowing the timing of his Presence and the conclusion of the system of things, the Bible already had 1914 imbedded in scripture in the book of Daniel.  

Obviously, Jesus could not use discernment therefore when it came to understanding the book of Daniel. [sarcasm] I guess that's because the last days hadn't begun. That understanding of Daniel could only be understood, I suppose, after 1914 when the Last Days were supposedly upon us. But wait! It was understood exactly this way by Nelson Barbour in 1872 and seen as a possibility by "Reverend" Elliott even in 1844. That must be because the "Last Days" for Barbour and Russell started in 1799.

1914 was NOT embedded in the book of Daniel. Daniel says nothing about the Gentile Times. Therefore, Daniel never says anything about "7 times of the Gentiles."  Daniel never even alludes to a day for a year. The closest that Daniel comes to doing so is when Daniel changes 70 years to 490 years by making 1 year become 7 years (a week of years), which is the same as "1 day = 7 days." But Daniel would have been using 365.25 day years there according to the Watchtower, where these 70 years (*7=490 years) run from 455 BCE to 36 CE.

But even though Daniel never tries to put a "timing" on the "times of the Gentiles" another apocalypse does put a timing on the times of the Gentiles. That's Revelation 11:2,3

(Luke 21:24) . . .the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

(Revelation 11:2, 3) . . .the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months. 3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.”

It's easy to see that the appointed times are given as 42 months, or 1,260 days (which is 3.5 times). You'll notice that the NWT references this verse in Luke back to Daniel 4 in the cross-references even though Daniel 4 never alludes to Jerusalem, or the nations, or trampling. But the NWT will not dare to cross-reference this verse to or from this verse in Revelation, a verse that definitely does allude to it:

-------------

BTW, if anyone wants to see a technical mistake/change/anomaly in the Watchtower CD, search on the word Jerusalem and notice that it comes up 4 times in Revelation. But one of those verses never uses the word Jerusalem. It highlights the word "Zion" in Revelation 14:1. If you search every instance of Jerusalem you will not only get Jerusalem, but also every instance of Zion and Salem, too. (Zion in Mt 21:5; Jn 12:15; Rm 9:33; 11:26; Hb 12:22 1Pt 2:6; Rv 14:1 and Salem in Hebrews 7:1,2). Unfortunately, you can't search on just Salem or Zion without all 1,400 instances of Jerusalem coming up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
11 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Daniel never even alludes to a day for a year. The closest that Daniel comes to doing so is when Daniel changes 70 years to 490 years by making 1 year become 7 years (a week of years), which is the same as "1 day = 7 days." But Daniel would have been using 365.25 day years there according to the Watchtower, where these 70 years (*7=490 years) run from 455 BCE to 36 CE.

The 70th week was in reference to Christ's First Presence.   

Presence of Christ Foretold (2x) …….....….....   Pages 5-8   

    Hello guest!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
21 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Not that the Watchtower, asserts any specific dates as absolute, if you calculate, you will find that 2023 is a better date for the sealing.

How?

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Now when Jesus did ascend to the father, he sat down in the right hand of God. This of course means, Jesus would have to wait for a period of time, before God would grant him the thorn.

When Jesus became king and sat on the throne he was already king. It's true he had to wait until the proper time to conquer all enemies, as the last enemy death would not be conquered until the thousand years would be ended. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't ruling in the midst of those enemies before they would be conquered. 

We don't say that when a king sits on his throne that he is not really a king yet, and that sitting on a throne just means waiting until you get the title a second time. Therefore Paul could replace the term "sit at my right hand" with "rule as king."

Watch how Paul did this:

(Psalm 110:1) Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

(1 Corinthians 15:25) 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.

So, if the apostle Paul was correct, then "sit at my right hand" meant exactly the same thing as "rule as king."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
14 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

John's vision was meant as a future tense, NOT present tense.

Actually, Jesus is called "king of those who rule as kings" by Paul, and "ruler of the kings of the earth" by John before any visions of the future, and before being swept into "the Lord's day" which Watchtower publications identify as the time from 1914 on. Look at the context, and notice that this is the introduction, in the present tense.

(Revelation 1:4-6) . . .May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

Was Jesus not already "the Faithful Witness" or was that just future? Was Jesus not already "the firstborn from the dead" or was that just future? Was Jesus not already "the one who loves us and set us free from sins by means of his own blood" or was that just future? 

And of course this rationalizing away of Revelation 1:5, doesn't explain away any of the other verses, quoted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share





×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.