Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, Thinking said:

ALL !!!!!forums are the playground of the demons Anna…

I don’t know of any forum besides this one that is not fully skewed one way or the other. Are there any? 

There are many sites run by those who unabashedly oppose Jehovah’s people. These I would never take part in, for I would feel like a troll if I did. You have to let someone else’s point of view stand on their own website. 

That’s not to say that I have never done it. I have in the past, on an experimental basis, to see what would happen. Never so much as to be thought of a ‘regular’ anywhere. I don’t do it anymore.

I even owe @Pudgy’s friend an apology, for I told him I had commented on a hostile site maybe 3 or 4 times. It was at least 12 times, he said! No, it was 3 or 4–why on earth would I lie about that? He responded that he used to be an engineer for the municipality, and as such, he learned to be precise. I told him that if he used to be a municipal engineer and no longer was, possibly the reason was that he could not count!! Furthermore, I would hate to visit whatever city he was the waterworks engineer in, for no doubt under his stewardship there wasn’t a single toilet there that flushed!

However, much later I realized he was right. There had been over a dozen, but only 3 or 4 recently. The rest were so long ago and on another website that I had forgotten about them! So maybe the toilets are okay after all.

Since then I have been on the Reddit site a few times, but no longer. That began when i found the Philly.com reporter wrote a front page anti-JW article and then returned to that forum where he was hailed as a hero! If he goes there for his “facts,” I figured, maybe I can go there and present a few that are more balanced. But I stopped. I was being a troll, and I don’t like to be a troll.

The downside of handling apostates the way we do is that we almost create an aura of mystique about them that they do not deserve. On some level, they are no more than Demas, who left Paul because he loved the present system of things. Plus, if someone, often a youth, falls for the oldest trick in the book—going somewhere because he has been advised not to—he or she comes across material that they are completely unprepared for, and may be stumbled. Thereafter few are able to help them because they don’t know what is there themselves. That’s originally why @Annabegan familiarizing herself with ‘apostate’ thinking. She had a teenage son, and did not want to find herself helpless in the event he came across hostile material & was troubled. (Last I heard, he is now an adult, doing just fine, has never displayed such curiosity, and is bemused that his mom keeps up with weirdos on the internet.)

I wrote ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates’ with the recommendation not to read it unless you were one troubled by all the bile opposers throw our way, that if you were one who could shut off the TV, pull the plug on the computer, or stuff the newspaper in the trash at a anti—JW presentation without ever giving another thought to it, then there’s no reason to read TTvtA,, but if not, well—that’s why I wrote it.

They have a mystique they do not deserve and part of that reason is we lend it to them by such insistent direction to STAY AWAY. It is good counsel, and it is scriptural counsel for sure, but everything is a matter of degree. I think it can be observed that if apostates were a huge issue in the first century (and they were—no NT writer does not deal with them, and two Bible chapters are exclusively devoted to them) then they should correspondingly be a huge issue today. Nobody has apostates so vitriolic as do Jehovah’s Witnesses. What if we didn’t have any? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why, since they are so plainly in the NT? ‘Our’ apostates exactly pattern themselves after the pattern of the first-century, and they thereby validate us. I am almost proud of ours. Ours are the best. 

The chapter ‘Who are the apostates?’ has quotes from a few scholarly types who point out that ‘apostates’ almost have to attack their former faith with brainwashing and mind-control memes, otherwise they have to explain how, if it is as bad as they now maintain it is, they could have been so stupid as to follow it in the first place. I wrote the book to forward a response with views that I had never seen presented before. I forget what the free download section is. At first it was the standard 10%, then I made the whole book free, then later 1/3–I forget what it is now.

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311

At long last I’m getting books into print. Don’t Know Why is available now on Amazon, Tom Irregardless will be very soon, and TTvtA after that. Alas, it is already time for TTvtA—Round 2, but it will be a long time before that sees the light of day.

I think we have a “good” assortment of “apostates” on this forum in that some of them are flat-out crazy, and the ones that aren’t are over-the-top in their venom—‘hate OCD’ is how Aruana puts it, and it is hard to argue with regard to spiritual things that it is not so. Might some be persuaded by them? I’m sure some are, but I haven’t seen it happen here. With but one negligible exception, nobody here, good guys or bad, has budged one iota in basic orientation. Surely people can see that there is not the tiniest amount of spiritual food provided by ones here who oppose, even ones who claim anointed status. Maybe you can argue that the spiritual food provided by God’s organization is not without a pebble here and there, necessitating revisions as “the light gets brighter,” but there is none whatsoever from the hostile ones here.

Some of them are broken people. @JW Insider considered one of them not long ago and felt terribly for her. That doesn’t mean that they can be fixed by human hands. Horrible suffering is endemic in the world today, and some of it has happened in a Witness context. Hopefully they will respond to present reach-out efforts from the Christian organization, but just how, or if, they will respond must remain in their court.

I am reminded of a Bashevis Singer short story in which a 19th-century Jewish settlement in Poland is paralyzed because the priest (rabbi?) cannot bring himself to sacrifice animals. He just loves them too much; he is too kind and gentle. Finally one settler tells him that it’s fine to be merciful, but he doesn’t have to be more merciful than God. 

 

 

[Thinking]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Maybe you can argue that the spiritual food provided by God’s organization is not without a pebble here and there, necessitating revisions as “the light gets brighter,” but there is none whatsoever from the hostile ones here.

When have I ever done this…?..and nor do I view apostates as many do…in fact I view most so called apostates as ones with genuine hurts and griefs needing expressions???..and answers…

Do you not think I have not experienced first hand one of those  broken people in my family…hence my journey on forums?..same reasons as Anna.

could any one save him…no!…he is now awaiting the resurrection …but I will still stand by my statement….all forums as well as this one is used by demons as a play ground…and it’s the genuine ones who will be their victims…..

anyway….I shall say my farewells here..and I wish you all well……but I will say one thing before I go…there is no point in bringing  to light or tearing down Russell’s name…it’s cowardly as the man cannot represent himself and make an answer….I do t agree with all that is written by him  either…but he was one hell of a man to stand up in his time ..and dispense the food that he did..and fight to his death and put in its grave ..the teaching of hellfire and trinity…was he a flawed man…yes…..was he used by Jehovah ..without doubt…..Jehovah uses flawed men and women.

is it easy to publicise his errors..absolutely…sadly it will continue on…but remember..it’s just opinions..written by ones who never knew him or his era he lived in…

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and I don’t like to be a troll.

It would be interesting to hear your opinion of what these two words mean.

Troll and Apostate.

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The downside of handling apostates the way we do is that we almost create an aura of mystique about them that they do not deserve. On some level, they are no more than Demas, who left Paul because he loved the present system of things.

Do you repeat this rubbish to try to reasure yourself that you beleive it ?  

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I think we have a “good” assortment of “apostates” on this forum in that some of them are flat-out crazy, and the ones that aren’t are over-the-top in their venom—‘hate OCD’ is how Aruana puts it,

But in reality you are upset that some of us are sensible people that have prayed to God through Christ and have been given a basic understanding of scripture so that we can prove how sinful and immoral the GB and it's multi organisations are. You are so upset that you have to keep repeating to yourself that we are 'crazy' 'dodos' 'hate OCD' 'venom'.  You need to keep saying these words to yourself, just as Arauna does, because it then stops you seeing the truth about your GB and the Orgs..

However, if God wishes it to happen, then some who come here will find truth.  

 

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

anyway….I shall say my farewells here..and I wish you all well…

If you mean you are leaving the entire forum, I wish you weren't. I'll miss you, and so will several others, I'm sure. If you do mean the entire forum, then I hope all goes well. You've added a lot of important points over the last few years, in my opinion.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

However, if God wishes it to happen, then some who come here will find truth.  

Ring Ring.

”TrueAnointed Taxi Company. It’s your dime—start talking.”

“This is Patiently Sitting on my Hands! I just heard the Armageddon Express left the station. I didn’t want to miss that train. You were supposed to send a cab by. Now I’m in a terrible fix, and it’s your fault!!”

“Look, you dodo, we did what you said. You said send a cab over once they hired perfect personnel at the station who didn’t make any mistakes. We monitored just like you asked, and they never did! They made do with the guys they already had! Blame yourself!

”There’s another train leaving tomorrow on the WeepnNash Yurteeth line. If you want, we can send a cab by and pick you up for that.”

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I'll just leave this here for @TrueTomHarley  

But in reality you are upset that some of us are sensible people that have prayed to God through Christ and have been given a basic understanding of scripture so that we can prove how sinful and immoral the GB and it's multi organisations are.

You are so upset that you have to keep repeating to yourself that we are 'crazy' 'dodos' 'hate OCD' 'venom'.  You need to keep saying these words to yourself, just as Arauna does, because it then stops you seeing the truth about your GB and the Orgs..

However, if God wishes it to happen, then some who come here will find truth. 

[Arauna]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:11 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

must have caused mental health problems for many

Funny!  It seems that those who turn against Jehovah have more mental health problems than anyone else! And the first thing to go is their sense of logic....   quite well demonstrated here in the hate - OCD.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Funny!  It seems that those who turn against Jehovah have more mental health problems than anyone else! And the first thing to go is their sense of logic....   quite well demonstrated here in the hate - OCD.

 

I'll just leave this here again. It refers to Tom and Arauna. 

You are so upset that you have to keep repeating to yourself that we are 'crazy' 'dodos' 'hate OCD' 'venom'.  You need to keep saying these words to yourself because it then stops you seeing the truth about your GB and the Orgs.. 

And it seems Arauna cannot see the difference between Almighty God, and, the JW org. I think that proves how slyly the GB and previous leaders have pushed God and Christ to one side, replacing those they should be served with MEN that should not be served. 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

It seems that those who turn against Jehovah have more mental health problems than anyone else!

I am asking for arguments for the claim and statistics that support your claim.

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You are so upset

Don't project your unbalanced feelings onto me!  I do not fall for your pseudo- psychology! 

[Witness]

There is one Rock, one Fortress - the Almighty God and His Son, who works alongside Him.  (Ps 18:2)  They together, are the only Rock that we are admonished  to put faith in. (Col 2:9)  So far, I don't see many on this forum who have left the organization, not accepting this fact.  

To say that leaving the congregation/organization of JWs equates to leaving "Jehovah", shows a spiritual, mental gap, a lack of spiritual knowledge to have reached one's heart.  And that gap is quite large.  This creates both mental and spiritual instability - mental and spiritual "health problems", that can lead to one's downfall.  (Matt 7:24-27)

 Without using God's Word to support a claim that leaving the Wt. is the same as leaving God, shows the accusation up as a falsehood.  If a JW cannot make the distinction, the clear dividing line between God and an earthly, worldly corporation, then that JW and their comrades included, are idolaters.  (Col 2:8)  It is hypocrisy to say that God has chosen their organization over any other religious organization, when all are dependent on the same  resources that the world offers, to make their organization live and grow.  

To project that the organization of men is a "fortress", and belongs to God, is blasphemy.  And yes, the governing leaders do expect that what they have built, be upheld as "divine". (Rev 13:15)  

 It defies the only Temple/fortress God has sanctioned with His Holy Spirit.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10; Rev 21:22-27) 

Only one, will be blessed and "inhabited" by God in His Kingdom.  (2 Cor 6:16; Gal 4:26; Rev 21:2-4)

Any who leave the Wt are "apostates" according to the doctrine of men, not according to God's Word.  

Jer 17:5  This is what the LORD says: Cursed is the person who trusts in mankind. He makes human flesh his strength, and his heart turns from the LORD.

 

 

[Witness]

53 minutes ago, Witness said:

There is one Rock, one Fortress - the Almighty God and His Son, who works alongside Him.  (Ps 18:2)  They together, are the only Rock that we are admonished  to put faith in. (Col 2:9)

W1952 10/1 p. 602

“Christendom’s lofty looks, boastful words, bragging tongue, her superior attitude toward the holy Word of God, her trust in idols and men and riches, such as belong to this world, will not provide her with security or any safety from Jehovah’s storm and blast.” 

PURE WORSHIP OF JEHOVAH—RESTORED AT LAST!

“Is Christendom the Antitypical Jerusalem?”

“In the past, our literature has referred to Christendom as the antitype of apostate Jerusalem. The conditions in unfaithful Jerusalem—including idolatry and widespread corruption—certainly remind us of what is happening in Christendom. However, in recent years our publications, including the one you are now reading, have not taken the type-antitype approach to prophecy except where the Bible provides a clear basis for doing so. Is there a solid Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem? No.”

Since the scriptures reveal that in the last days, it is God’s holy people who are captivated and conquered by idolatry and false teachings, we can then amend Wt’s comment made in the 1952 article from above:    (Mark 13:19-23; Rev 13:7,8,10; Luke 21:24; Rev 11:2; )

"Christendom’s  The Wt. organization’s lofty looks, boastful words, bragging tongue, her superior attitude toward the holy Word of God, her trust in idols and men and riches, such as belong to this world, will not provide her with security or any safety from Jehovah’s storm and blast." 

It goes on to say,

"Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.” (Ps 48:1,2) God’s organization is marvelous and supremely beautiful and the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ is the hope of all peoples.—Ps 48:12,13."

Mount Zion– the holy city “built” with “living stones” and Jesus as its chief cornerstone.  (Eph 2:20-22; Heb 12:22) It is not stationary, but a mobile spiritual tabernacle, that will "come down out of heaven" to be with mankind.  (Rev 15:5; 21:1-3)  

So you see, JWs.  Your own earlier pages of “spiritual food”, are not giving praise to the Wt organization,  but to heavenly Mount Zion where God’s Spirit dwells – in the hearts of the faithful, sealed, anointed “144,000”. 

Do you dare curse the anointed priests that God has chosen to do His will as happens continually on this forum? (Isa 43:10; 44:8; 1 Pet 2:5,9) Do you dare shun these anointed who reside with you, and give praise and glory to men not anointed (elders) instead, who have removed their priestly duties and ended their “daily sacrifices”? (Dan 8:11; 11:31)

Do you dare support the trampling of these Temple priests by glorifying an earthly organization that cannot be denied as full of sin?

(Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:14;  2 Thess 2:1-4; Rev 11:1-3)