Charles Taze Russell: Dates, Expectations, Predictions, Apologies, Response, Relevance

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

We are to teach that the work Russell was involved in and wrote about actually got the attention of Jesus Christ around the year 1914.

Ok, I haven't yet read the rest of your comment but this, in my opinion, needs explaining more clearly please.

Those first five words. Who gives that directive ? and who made that statement ? 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

1 Corinthians 2:15-16)  However, the spiritual man examines all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. ¹⁶ For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ.

This scripture concerns the Anointed not the earthly class. It is only the True Anointed that have the 'mind of Christ' because they have been anointed as part of the 'body of Christ'. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Perhaps a specific "leap of progress" hasn't even happened yet

Don't tell @TrueTomHarley, he doesn't seem to believe God or Christ can do anything. 

For my part i think that leap you are looking for will come from the True Anointed after 'certain things have happened' which i am not allowed to write about for fear of ................... 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

One of the reasons I like to share what I find when I "ponder" our current teachings about the WTS past, is to point out that looking to the past doesn't get us anywhere. We have more and better reasons to look to the future.

But the past gives a good or bad reference for the ones that are taking the Lead and for the W/t / Org generally.

Remember that your GB make a point of saying that God and Christ trust them. So anyone wishing to be part of such an Org should look at the past 'record of achievements' of the GB / Leaders / Org. And the past records are not a good reference. 

You make reference to the things I was taught as a JW. Well I was taught about the 7,000 year creative days. The 6,000 years of humans life, then the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I was taught that the JW / W/t Leaders were inspired of God's Holy Spirit.  My studying was from JW books, more than from God's written word, because that is how so called Bible studies were done, and probably still are. But most of those books are now considered 'old light', a good excuse for lies.

In fact I would think that most of what I was taught is now proven to be lies. The foundation of my confidence in the Org has gone, and has been replaced with........... I don't know. Replaced with the 'overlapping generations' and other excuses. 

So when I found out about the massive amount of CSA / Pedophilia in the Org earthwide, and the way it was / is being mishandled, it was just the tipping point for me to know that neither God nor Christ approve of the GB or the org. 

I agree with you that God / Christ may have used Russell's work and they may also have used / be using the work of the Watchtower / JW Org. But I don't think that either God or Christ approved of Russell or approve of the W/t / Org.

A bit like God used the Egyptians to punish His people, and God used the Romans to destroy Jerusalem in 70 C.E. but God didn't exactly approve of the Romans or Egyptians. So maybe this 'leap' you mention will not be from the W/t or Org, or maybe it will be a cleansing of them. But i think there is a need to remember that God has used punishment for disobedience in the past. 

[Kick_Faceinator]

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I agree with you that God / Christ may have used Russell's work and they may also have used / be using the work of the Watchtower / JW Org.

I want to agree, I wish I could agree, but God wouldn’t have used Russell and is not using the Watchtower simply because of the fact they both are direct opposers of the apostle Paul’s warning to announce the Day of the Lord began before the man of lawlessness was revealed.

Paul warned:

“Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.” 2 Thessalonians 2:2

The Watchtower and Russell are the opposers of Paul who say it began:

“BACK in 1914, Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom, and the Lord’s day began." - w88 10/15 pp. 15-20

Paul says don’t believe them. Who are we going to believe, the Watchtower, Russell, uninspired men?…or the inspired apostle Paul?

The Watchtower wants us to believe that the man of lawlessness is Christendom, but that is impossible because Paul said the man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God.

“Don’t be fooled by what they say [the Watchtower and Russell]. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

We know the temple of God are the anointed, not Christendom.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?” 1 Corinthians 3:16

So unless Christendom is somehow filled with Gods anointed ones that make up Gods temple, there’s only one place the man of lawlessness can possibly be sitting right now…

1914 is Satans game.

“This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs [1914, world war 1, 2] and miracles.,” 2 Thessalonians 2:9

Satans got them by the throat. The whole Watchtower societies existence is contingent upon 1914 being true, but the fact is, the whole entire organization of Jehovahs witnesses, is a lie.

“For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” 2 Thessalonians 2:11

If God we’re using the watchtower, he would be supporting the man of lawlessness, Satans man.

[Pudgy]

 

Perhaps someone else would be able to find the flaws in your logic, but for the life of me I cannot.

 

I hope that someone will find the flaws in your logic, Or I will have to take a nap until it’s resolved satisfactorily.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

12 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Perhaps someone else would be able to find the flaws in your logic, but for the life of me I cannot.

I am reminded of how someone was described as having suffered an injury causing “permanent deafness,” and one commentator said, ‘Well, it’s a little too soon to tell.”

So it is with those who would pronounce 1914 dead and buried. It’s a little too soon to tell.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

20 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

I want to agree, I wish I could agree, but God wouldn’t have used Russell and is not using the Watchtower simply because of the fact they both are direct opposers of the apostle Paul’s warning to announce the Day of the Lord began before the man of lawlessness was revealed.

God used the Egyptians and the Romans even though God did not approve of them. I'm not suggesting that God approved of Russell but God could have allowed Russell's work to 'wake up' some of the True Anointed ones. 

20 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

The Watchtower wants us to believe that the man of lawlessness is Christendom, but that is impossible because Paul said the man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God.

 

20 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

We know the temple of God are the anointed, not Christendom.

 

20 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

So unless Christendom is somehow filled with Gods anointed ones that make up Gods temple, there’s only one place the man of lawlessness can possibly be sitting right now…

 

So then, this would seem to prove that the Anointed are gathered in the JW org. Hence that Org has served some purpose for God. I'm not suggesting that God approves of the Watchtower / JW org, but that God can make use of them. How else have the Anointed all gathered in that one place ? And why has God allowed the Anointed to gather there ? Those ones are the Body of Christ. Christ has been given all authority. Is Christ allowing his Brothers to be there ? And why ?  Has the Watchtower / JW Org served the purpose of 'waking up' more of the True Anointed ones ? 

If you have read any of my previous writings here, you may know that I think the JW org will be 'taken over' by the True Anointed' when the GB are removed. Otherwise the Anointed will have to 'get out of her' and then form some other kind of Association. My feelings are that the True Anointed could run an Association from different parts of the earth. They need not all be in one country. Internet etc, communication is easy. And with Holy Spirit directing it through Christ 'all things are possible'. 

[Thinking]

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Perhaps someone else would be able to find the flaws in your logic, but for the life of me I cannot.

 

I hope that someone will find the flaws in your logic, Or I will have to take a nap until it’s resolved satisfactorily.

 

 

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Perhaps someone else would be able to find the flaws in your logic, but for the life of me I cannot.

 

I hope that someone will find the flaws in your logic, Or I will have to take a nap until it’s resolved satisfactorily.

 

 

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Perhaps someone else would be able to find the flaws in your logic, but for the life of me I cannot.

 

I hope that someone will find the flaws in your logic, Or I will have to take a nap until it’s resolved satisfactorily.

 

The man of lawlessness put himself in the temple of God..he places himself in a place he has no authority to be….he over takes Gods temple and sits as a ruler .he invades that temple…and throne….just as he did in Eden….for now he is prince of the air…and ruler of the world…...and claims to be God…it is Christendom and all other false faiths rolled into one…..of which he and his demon gods own and run……like it or not…the great lie Jehovah aAllowed  to go forth was that Jesus and God are one and the same…and yes…everyone got to believe it….this 1914 is piffle compared to the lie  of Jesus….its nothing…it’s a drip….and probably if proved wrong allowed by Jehovah…..

think about it….an Angel tho high ranking…yet still without immortality faced death mocking and torture for us  ….we minimize his pain and sacrifice by saying he had the strength of God because he was God….yet he was not much higher than mere man…we take away his honour and respect by that and that is exactly what satan wants..he nullified Jesus fear of failure and risk of death,,…and thus his victory of him (Satan) 

Jehovah allowed this lie..or,powerful delusion to go ahead ….. to go forth until they believed it as a testing to see who really appreciated the truth .(.the man of lawlessness did this ..Satan and his earthly organizations )who would recognize that Jesus was indeed Gods First born son and sacrificed himself for us …can you imagine the faith he had to have in his father….to willingly be dead for parts of three days….total faith he would be resurrected!!!!!!

Do you honestly think Satan wanted you to believe he did this…because it would prove that he himself…satan…..the devil..could have stayed faithful as well….but he cannot have that so he…the man of lawlessness….led this  delusion with Jehovah’s blessing or permission…it’s a testing and sifting of his true people 

Do you understand the depth displayed for our benefit of Jehovah’s love for mankind to do this ……or do you believe the lie it wasn’t so hard because God the Almighty who had immortality would never be in fear of dying….but Jesus put himself in a vulnerable dangerous position….not to exist for the best part of three days with no influence of his life or mankind.

Jeus had to exercise faith in his father…and his father had to have faith in him to succeed…..Satan does not want you to understand this.

so he has used misguided men to dress up a actual lie about him and cast doubts elsewhere…. 1914 as the great lie….pffff…it’s a distortion of Jehovah’s and Jesus huge massive sacrifice….and their VICTORY…

NOW HES AT IT AGAIN SAYING 1914 is the big lie….it isn’t ……the error that went forth to deceive so many has already happened ….it’s past..and we are further along than many realize….

Those scriptures you put up..can be read either way….but you and ewatchman  are promoting a lie.

personally I don’t care for dates ….so it doesn’t effect me…but many brothers and sisters are being stumbled by satans cunning wiles…..

When this come to its climax….Jehovah will,laugh aloud as he did with Sennacherib and say…….YOU FOOL DID YOU NOT KNOW I HAD THIS ALL PLANNED  RIGHT from THE START ( message Bible.

By the way there have always been ones who warned of the end well before it was to come… Many hundreds of years ago…..we are not the only guilty ones of it….

 

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Perhaps someone else would be able to find the flaws in your logic, but for the life of me I cannot.

 

I hope that someone will find the flaws in your logic, Or I will have to take a nap until it’s resolved satisfactorily.

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

The man of lawlessness put himself in the temple of God..he places himself in a place he has no authority to be….he over takes Gods temple and sits as a ruler

Do you actually know who the Temple of God are ? 

1 Corinthians 3 : 16 & 17

⁶  Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? ¹⁷  If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple.

This was Paul writing to the Anointed ones in Corinth. It is the Anointed that are the TEMPLE.

So where do you think the Anointed remnant are ? 

 

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So then, this would seem to prove that the Anointed are gathered in the JW org. Hence that Org has served some purpose for God. 

I think we have to remember that Satan has demanded to sift God’s holy people “as wheat”. (Luke 22:31)  In the last days, when the last of the anointed are present, he uses a deceiving tactic to test them.   If you’ll notice, the organization took awhile to develop before it could be said to be a full-fledged organization.  Doctrines have changed from giving Christ his share of glory, to concentrating on “Jehovah” and even more so, the organization – an idol, the work of man’s hands.  (Acts 17:24)   Gradually, the elder body gained a foothold, a united "army" as it is called, and now it rules completely over the anointed ones; while these priests are told to remain segregated from one another. (Dan 8:25) The organization is a trap, baited with a little truth, and it has successfully led all anointed into it, over the years. (1 Pet 5:8; Matt 24:4; Luke 21:8)  Why.  Because this is last Satan’s tactic - his magnum opus -  to “sift” the anointed as wheat.  

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I'm not suggesting that God approves of the Watchtower / JW org, but that God can make use of them.

God allows it. He allows us to make our choice.  It will refine the anointed if they submit to Christ and leave the slavery to men and their earthly treasures.  He allowed Satan to sift Jesus as wheat through temptations. Luke 4.  He warned the anointed through the scriptures of what would happen to them in the final days.  Jesus said false prophets would appear and deceive the “elect”.  (Matt 24:24,25) That many would listen to a deceiving spirit (1 Tim 4:1) But, they took no note.  They allowed their hearts to be captured by “empty philosophy” lies – all of them have. (Col 2:8) That's how powerful the deception is.  Revelation speaks of this deceit that occurs as two Beasts – the organization (Rev 13:1,2) and the false prophets that guides it.  (Rev 13:11,12)  It calls it "captivity" by the “sword”, by the use of God's word. (Heb 4:12; Rev 13:10)  The Beast of Rev 13:1,2 is the "man of lawlessness" that rules over the Temple/dwelling of God.  (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:18)

As @Kick_Faceinator said, Christendom has nothing to do with who the MOL is.  It has nothing to do with politics.  It has everything to do with God’s anointed and who they listen to, which in the organization happens to be the “wicked slave”/the two horned Beast of Rev 13:11, who beats them down with their elder body, into submission.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:5-7

The organization is a refining pot. (Luke 13:23,24; Matt 7:14; 24:13)  We couldn’t see that when we were “in” and blinded.  Only if one desires to search out authentic truth, are they saved from Satan’s dark trap. (Isa 29:18) God sees every minute detail of our hearts.  He allows the spiritually “poor”, the “afflicted” to be set free, by opening their eyes to see the trap for what it is.

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

How else have the Anointed all gathered in that one place ?

Satan is let loose from the abyss, the place of “not perceiving”, which allows him the ability to perceive how to devise his plan of deceit.  He “gives” the “key” to do so, to those he wins over, with his “gifts” of power, authority and riches. (Rev 9:1,2)  The anointed are described as “stars”, who should shine their lamp of light as Jesus did. (Gen 22:15-17; Dan 12:3; Matt 5:14) If they fall from God’s grace, they are symbolically compared to a fallen star. (2 Pet 3:17)    Rev 9:1;8:10 speaks of a great star that falls from God’s grace. It falls on waters (of truth, John 7:38), but poisons them, with its teachings.  Many people die from these waters.  This star is a composite false prophet – the Beast of Rev 13:11,12. 

How do I know that Satan is let loose to deceive the elect before Armageddon is finished? 

Rev 16 mentions the Beast (organization) of Rev 13:1,2,  and the false prophet…and Satan.  The “kings of the earth” are the anointed members of Christ.  (Rev 1:5)

³ And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

Ok, so the anointed are overcome by a trap of deception, lies spoken by three – Satan, the organization and its leadership.   Also, these teachings inspired by Satan, reach people all over the world who become part of the Beast.  They are “gathered” together.

Rev 20 tells us more:

“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. ⁹ They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. ¹⁰ The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

Gog and Magog are another symbolic description of the two Beasts of Rev 13.  We get another glimpse  of what Gog and Magog accomplish against the anointed in Ezek. Chapter 38:15,16.  The pattern set then, is repeated symbolically today.   There it shows us how the holy people are met by a “northern army”, which is also depicted as locusts in Joel 2 and Rev 9:3-6

In these two chapters, it tells us that the saints/anointed/priesthood are deceived and gathered into the organization.  They are “surrounded” by the leadership, gathered for the war of Armageddon - a war of truth against deceit/lies. The Beast/organization “makes war with the saints” - against the temple, the sanctuary of God. ( Rev 13:5-7; 2 Thess 2:3,4)

There are several descriptions of the same event in the last days.  The Wt. has taken these accounts and applied them to the political governments, or to Christendom.  They have even applied the locust/scorpions of Rev 9 that torture God’s holy people who haven’t been sealed, to the anointed themselves. 

The Throne of Satan

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Witness said:

It will refine the anointed if they submit to Christ and leave the slavery to men and their earthly treasures. 

 

13 hours ago, Witness said:

surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.

So, do the Anointed leave the Org ? If so where do they go ? Where is this camp of the saints and the beloved city.

Is it physical or spiritual ? You say it happens before Armageddon, or during Armageddon ? 

Are you saying there is no 'thousand year reign' of Christ ?  Are you saying that Armageddon is a war between the Devil and the Anointed remnant ? 

AND, when will truth be taught to the 'little dogs', the ordinary people of this Earth ?  HOW will people know how to serve God properly if all this is happening in 'secret' ?  Will there in fact be a complete judgement of all mankind ? 

I'm sorry but your 'teachings' are so totally different that you have to follow through with all situations regarding all peoples to be able to make sense of the scriptures.