DEFINING APOSTASY

[Arauna]

18 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And you would know about hate 

The Cain-type I recognize quickly.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

This isn't about Russia.  It is about your leadership who dominate the priesthood - the GB who "direct" the elder body to "represent the royal priesthood" Before you spout off in ignorance, READ THE LETTER.

Nothing is about anything with you, it seems, other than taking incessant shots at the ones you crazily think have cheated you from your stage and position. 

As stated, reading that endless letter will take months, since practically a reread of the whole Bible is required, for the absurd number of verses cited.

Never have I seen a greater harvesting of scripture to gather such a bumper crop of decayed fruit into the storehouse.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nothing is about anything with you, it seems, other than taking incessant shots at the ones you crazily think have cheated you from your stage and position. 

Really Tom, I don’t care how many cheap shots you take at me.  This is about the members of God’s Temple. (1 Pet 2:5,9;1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  It is about Jesus Christ., their Head.  You do know that the anointed priests/Body of Christ, belong to Christ, right?  Does any man have the authority to tell them not to “challenge” their position to “represent the royal priesthood”? Does any man have the authority to tell members of Christ’s Body that they cannot meet together and study the word of God?   (Matt 24:24,25; 2 Thess 2:3,4; 2 Cor 11:20)  No. The letter explains why this is against God’s decrees. Ezek 44:6-9

Don’t you see, that anyone who attempts to manipulate your spirituality by preventing you to meet with whom you care to, is power hungry and scared of losing that power?  You reside where a wicked slave and "her" (Rev 17:3-6) henchmen/elder body have “trampled” down God’s Temple.  (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:1,2,5-7;11,12)  You reside with the “man of lawlessness” “standing where it does not belong”.  (Mark 13:5,6,14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:1,2,5-7,18)

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

As stated, reading that endless letter will take months, since practically a reread of the whole Bible is required, for the absurd number of verses cited.

If you cared to learn about Zion, if you cared to understand how the Kingdom of God will come and what role the priesthood has in it; what the spiritual Temple will provide for mankind, you would read the scriptures.  But, this is your convention time, and videos of your Harlots offering you smooth words are most likely pleasantly relaxing - I should say, mind-numbing as you share in the Harlot's cup. (Prov 5:3-6; Rev 8:10,11; 17:2)   Studying God's word takes work. 

 I wish you would wake up.  

 

 

[Witness]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Never have I seen a greater harvesting of scripture to gather such a bumper crop of decayed fruit into the storehouse.

 God's word - the scriptures -  is "living". (1 Tim 3:16; Heb 4:12) 

[Pudgy]

CATS!

I am out of dog treats!

Hold the Comedy until I get back .....

[Pudgy]

.............

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Hold the Comedy until I get back .....

Oh dear James. Keep taking the meds' 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 7/3/2021 at 8:03 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Nothing is about anything with you, it seems, other than taking incessant shots at the ones you crazily think have cheated you from your stage and position. 

This is just a cheap sexist comment, from Tom, as per usual, from a non spiritual man. But Tom and other JWs chose to blind themselves from the TRUTH. 

@JW Insider for instance. Although I think he is very balanced in his thoughts and comments, still chooses to reside in the den of immorality and lies. 

But Tom, he is looking to make money from it, so he not only resides there but loves doing so. 

@Arauna unfortunately takes the very serious line of accusing all ex JWs of hate. A totally un-Christian and unrealistic viewpoint but I fear it is because of her blindness to TRUTH and her dedication to her GB. 

I would have thought that disobeying the words of Jesus Christ and by choosing to be baptised into an Organisation would be apostasy in itself. So all JWs, especially those in positions of authority are apostate. 

But, @Witness I like that you do keep giving the warning to 'get out of her' because by doing so you are proving faithful to God through Christ. 

The facts are Mr Tom, that the Anointed are of both sexes, men and ladies, whilst in human form. And, the fact is that the GB DID make a point of saying that the Anointed 'would not want to meet together for prayer or Bible study' and that the Anointed 'would be working against the Holy spirit' if they did meet together.

I would suggest that the GB committed apostasy by thus saying such things, and it would seem scripture proves my point. 

Matthew 18 : 19, 20 

Berean Study Bible
"Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”

or if you prefer the New World Translation. 

¹⁹  Again I tell you truly, if two of you on earth agree concerning anything of importance that they should request, it will take place for them on account of my Father in heaven. ²⁰  For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”

As you know I believe scripture is mainly for the True Anointed, although we can all learn some basics from it. Hence I'm surprised you dislike scripture Tom.  

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

@JW Insider for instance. Although I think he is very balanced in his thoughts and comments, still chooses to reside in the den of immorality and lies. 

You like it when I say something that's different from what most of us believe, and you often immediately think I somehow proven that the WT or GB or other JWs are wrong, just because what I say "goes against the grain."

But I would not stay if it were really a den of immorality and lies. You know as well as I do that we get good Biblical counsel and practical advice about how to apply this counsel. You used to harp on the CSA issues constantly, and it seemed like you were ready to bring it up even if the topic was politics or science. I don't think JWs are the best or the worst religious organization, and I don't think that this type of comparison is even valid. After all, Jesus associated with sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors, etc., because those were the kind of people who knew they had a spiritual need to help overcome their sinful, fleshly issues and desires. If people get the right counsel, it's not the fault of the counselor when the person goes their own way. 

This doesn't mean I won't keep looking for ways that I think we can improve our processes for spiritually based admonition, discipline and justice.

And we've been through this before on the topic of lying. A person can say something untrue, and it doesn't mean they are deliberately lying. Were you actually "lying" when you taught people certain JW doctrines that you now believe are untrue?

When the WTS admits they were wrong about a teaching and they change it, they do this out of a desire to get it right. That's true even if they still have it wrong. It's about motive. I think a very few things are wrong out of most things that are right, but I don't think anyone taking the lead is purposely lying about the teachings that I think are wrong. However, in a stricter Biblical sense, due to human imperfection even in our motives, "every man is a liar:"

(Psalm 146:3) . . .Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.

(Romans 3:4) . . .But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar, just as it is written:. . .

But then, this is true even of the apostles Paul, Peter, James, John, and any other "True Anointed" as long as they are on the earth as humans.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

And we've been through this before on the topic of lying. A person can say something untrue, and it doesn't mean they are deliberately lying. Were you actually "lying" when you taught people certain JW doctrines that you now believe are untrue?

If we repeat a lie that we were taught, we also are lying – we are a liar.  Many who left the organization have apologized to their past Bible students for teaching them a lie.  Many are repentant for the lying doctrines they once taught.  The GB may change doctrines that appear as loving adjustments, but are they repentant for telling a previous lie?  Consider the message of 1975, and the encouragement given to the flock for anticipating its arrival.  Once this date had passed, who was to blame for placing their hope in a date contrived by the leadership?  Was dumping the blame on the flock an act of love?  The leaders are well aware of what the scriptures say about setting dates and timetables, but they arrogantly pushed ahead and followed the desires of their hearts.

I recall the song, "make the truth your own".  When a JW is admonished to accept a doctrine as truth, and to teach that doctrine which later is revealed to be a lie, it was a deliberate action by the JW to make that supposed "truth" their own. The "loved" the lie.  (2 Thess 2:9-12)   The lies spoken by the leaders, are through deception, yet those whom they teach still repeat and speak the lie.  (Prov 12:22)  Someone can believe the world is flat and teach it as truth.  They may convince themselves that are right and anyone who believes the world is round, is the liar.  A scientist can provide all the evidence to show them up as a liar, but their heart is set on the lie.  We have God's Word to guide us on how not to lie, not to teach falsehoods. After 100+ years, the organization's leaders, have yet to learn this; whereas the apostles learned it immediately.

"Everyone has to be on guard against his friend.
Don’t trust any brother,
for every brother will certainly deceive,
and every friend spread slander.
5 Each one betrays his friend;
no one tells the truth.
They have taught their tongues to speak lies;
they wear themselves out doing wrong.
6 You live in a world of deception.
In their deception they refuse to know me.
This is the Lord’s declaration."  Jer 9:4-6

"A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart."  Luke 6:45

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You like it when I say something that's different from what most of us believe, and you often immediately think I somehow proven that the WT or GB or other JWs are wrong, just because what I say "goes against the grain.

Yes I like it, because you tend to give scriptural and/or practical reasoning to prove your point. I also find it funny because you seem to apologize for proving them wrong. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But I would not stay if it were really a den of immorality and lies.

 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You used to harp on the CSA issues constantly

These two points go together. The CSA / Pedophile problem has been proven to exist in the JW Org and has not been dealt with in an honest and loving way. Victims are seen as collateral damage unless the GB can use them to their advantage. Big private pay offs to keep them quiet. And although rules may have been re-written the hearts of Elders haven't changed. I still find news articles about the CSA but I have made the point very clear in the past, so those that are JWs that wish to remain blind, and wish to remain in an immoral Org, will do so. The virus seemed to 'shut down' court proceedings in the USA around February 2020, and the massive court procedure in Canada didn't happen, one wonders why, but money talks of course. Unfortunately the UK is blocked from receiving many news articles from the States. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

After all, Jesus associated with sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors, etc., because those were the kind of people who knew they had a spiritual need to help overcome their sinful, fleshly issues and desires. If people get the right counsel, it's not the fault of the counselor when the person goes their own way. 

Comparing the GB or the Org to Jesus. The point Jesus made was that those people must turn around and repent, and then serve God by following Jesus' examples. Whereas the GB / Watchtower Leaders made allowances for Pedophiles to be kept hidden in the JW Org for half a century. The apostle Paul brought things out into the open about sinners in the congregations, the GB kept it all hidden. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Were you actually "lying" when you taught people certain JW doctrines that you now believe are untrue?

Yes I obviously was. Because I was taught not to question. I was taught another lie, the lie that the Watchtower Leaders were directed by Holy Spirit from God. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

When the WTS admits they were wrong about a teaching and they change it, they do this out of a desire to get it right. That's true even if they still have it wrong.

Are you so blind ? What you are saying is that you will continue to follow the words of Men even though you know they are not inspired of God's holy spirit.

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(Psalm 146:3) . . .Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.

You quoted this then you still trust the WTS, who are only 'men', even though they prove time and time again to be producing false teachings, telling lies. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

However, in a stricter Biblical sense, due to human imperfection even in our motives, "every man is a liar:"

BUT your GB say that THEY are the F&DS, AND THEY say that GOD and CHRIST TRUST THEM. 

How many more lies do you need ?  They condemn themselves. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But then, this is true even of the apostles Paul, Peter, James, John, and any other "True Anointed" as long as they are on the earth as humans.

Please give examples......  If they denied Christ it was because Christ wanted them to. It was deliberate as a means of safety for the disciples. Otherwise they would have been put to death with Him and no more preaching would have been done, and no Greek scripture would have been written. 

[TrueTomHarley]

29 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If they denied Christ it was because Christ wanted them to.

One must not argue with a dodo.