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Was Jesus Anointed at His baptism ?


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23 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Along with this, to help explain the context in Hebrews, I had added that the expression "You are my son, today I have become your father," was a formulaic expression for the anointing of kings like David and Solomon. This is clearly how Hebrews 1 is using it with the idea of the throne and scepter and the obeisance and "his Kingdom" -- "that is why . . . God anointed" him. 

Very true. There are some additional aspects that we can consider about the baptism and anointing of Jesus.  In Israel, the traditional pattern was that a prophet anointed the new ruling king with literal oil which signified God’s spirit upon the chosen one.   

Elijah the prophet anointed Jehu (as well as a foreign king) – 1 Kings 19:15,16 

Samuel anointed David – 1 Kings 16:13

…and Saul – 1 Sam 10:1

In 1 Sam 16:14 and 18:12, it tells us that God’s spirit “departed from Saul”, showing that the anointing earlier witnessed, was most definitely the sign for people to understand that God had chosen them through His Spirit.

So, Jesus complied with the need for his people to be repentant for their sins through baptism; but also, John’s presence as a prophet when the heavens opened to reveal the Spirit descending upon Jesus, confirms his anointing happened during that same time. 

 

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As soon as I saw this on the 21st, I wrote a response that disappeared just as I was about to "Submit Reply." I figured that it was probably a bad sign that my computer touchpad was jumping the cursor all over the place, but it was probably a good sign that I shouldn't keep writing 3 page responses to a simple question. So I didn't try to rewrite it, and went on to other things. To my surprise, I came back here today and see that @Witness gave nearly the exact response that I had written. I

All faithful, obedient believers in Christ who desire to know truth are led by the Holy Spirit, and most definitely Jesus had God’s Spirit guiding him since his birth.  But, the pouring out and being filled with Holy Spirit is the opening up of wisdom/truth/knowledge (God’s word) from heaven.  (1 John 2:27 )  Being “filled” with spirit is an anointing. I believe it was at that time (Luke 3:21,22) that Jesus then knew the extent of the path he had to take while on the earth.  As you say, th

But didn't the harvest start whilst Jesus was on Earth.  Matthew 9 : 37 - 38 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into His harvest.” Could there be two harvests ? One for the Anointed, and one for the 'little dog

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19 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nah, I think it just means your computer is a piece of junk, like mine.

Nope, not in my case.  That is not possible in this family of a network director and a network admin.  My sons will not allow me to own a crappy computer.  🙂  

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On 7/25/2021 at 9:46 AM, JW Insider said:

I figured that it was probably a bad sign that my computer touchpad was jumping the cursor all over the place,

For me, the worst thing is when I type a long and really clever response on my phone and I touch the back erase button a bit too long and it erases everything. I noticed the undo button is gone on the website....so I have to write the whole darn thing again, but often I just don't bother.....

This is one reason why I hate doing this on the phone.

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On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But JWs say that the Kingdom was set up in 1914. 

Whereas Jesus was anointed as King at his baptism and in some ways made it known to the Pharisees whilst He was still alive saying 'The kingdom of God is amongst you'. 

You're confusing his status with King to his status as a Firstfruit.

Hence my response of which you quoted - The notion of the Firstfruits (Chosen Ones, Anointed Ones) is 100% core to legitimate Anti-Trinitarians, this includes the Jehovah's Witnesses too.

Jesus became King much later on if Revelations is to be understood (as is with the following passages - Matthew 24:14; Luke 21:10, 11, 31), however, his status as a Firstfruit began when he was resurrected by God from out of the pangs of death [But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep], which can be read here - Christ, the Firstfruits of the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20-23)


In their theology, regarding 1914, they said Jesus was enthroned as King in heaven. This is based off of the time period after Jerusalem’s destruction (Siege of Jerusalem), which is about 2,520 years past post, also if you factor in King David and Daniel's vision, and so forth. When Jesus was given Kingship, the very first act he has done was expel wick from out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-10, and this evil being Satan and his demons. This event to many is known as The War of Heaven, The Book of Revelation describes said war between angels led vs. demons, with Jesus leading the angels, and  The Dragon leading his demons, and the aftermath resulted in the enemy combatants' defeated, cast out of heaven to earth.

On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Jesus told his disciple (John 10 : 16)   

    Hello guest!

"I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd."

And this is known for those other sheep have yet to here the gospel, hence the verses I've mentioned in the Gospel of Matthew and Luke.

In order to be one flock, the reaching how must be done by means of spreading the gospel of the good news, and of the Messianic Kingdom to come.

On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And the 120 chosen ones, at  Pentecost 33 A.D, became part of that Kingdom at that time.

Yes, and there are some of them who are still alive today, but a few - they make up the Kingdom.

On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

My point being that Spiritual Israel / the Kingdom, started with the baptism of Jesus and then the anointing of the 120 at Pentecost in 33 A.D. 

That is a bit misleading. The notation of the Firstfruits began when Jesus became the first one upon death. Jesus Christ, being the the mediator of the New Covenant of which Spiritual Israel is under, was due to his death and eventually rise by means of God; all this is the basis of the promise (Luke 22:20; Hebrews 9:15). Spiritual Israel essentially, began on Pentecost 33 A.D.

If, by what you are saying Spiritual Israel started at his baptism it with would prove to be very contradicting to other connections by Scripture.

Spiritual Israel ended up heeding command of the Christ to preach not just the gospel, but the coming of the Kingdom itself, of which they will evidently be a part of, especially, the ones who still roam the earth today.

On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So why do the Watchtower / JW org say the Kingdom started in 1914 ? 

There talking about Jesus' Kingship, not Spiritual Israel or the Firstfruits. As is, not really mentioned by them, but to others, The War in Heaven.

On 7/23/2021 at 2:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I'm trying to get people's personal feelings on this, but people (JWs) seem frightened to give an answer. 

Would it not be wise to go for facts instead of feelings? Facts usually outweigh a personal exegesis on some things.

That being said, I would not call them afraid, it is just that this subject has been mentioned many, many times on here. Simply looking into "1914" by itself can net you numerous results of topics and posts, and on top of that, those topics already have the answer, perhaps the one you sought for.

That being said, you have to really look into carefully of what started at baptism, and what started at Pentecost 33 A.D. Both unique events, with different outcomes deemed historic and prophetic.

 

I recommend carefully examining the references, or more importantly, the years from the Siege to Kingship of the Christ.

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

Nope, not in my case.  That is not possible in this family of a network director and a network admin.  My sons will not allow me to own a crappy computer.  🙂  

Are you sure they’re on your side? Hard to believe it is the Devil.

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

For me, the worst thing is when I type a long and really clever response on my phone and I touch the back erase button a bit too long and it erases everything. I noticed the undo button is gone on the website....so I have to write the whole darn thing again, but often I just don't bother.....

This is one reason why I hate doing this on the phone.

Easier to use word/notepad/wordpad and then copy everything over. This is what  do, reason being because back then in the CSE community, at random the forum can refresh without warning and you lose everything.

That way you do not have to start from scratch again.

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On 7/25/2021 at 9:46 AM, JW Insider said:

I figured that it was probably a bad sign that my computer touchpad was jumping the cursor all over the place,

Probably because you ran out of touchpad space.

I had that problem, and had to build a  table extension.

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16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Would it not be wise to go for facts instead of feelings? Facts usually outweigh a personal exegesis on some things.

Everybody's 'facts' are different. Hence you are not a JW.  If, as it seems, no one is inspired of God's Holy Spirit right now, then it would seem that no one knows true facts.. Even on this forum everyone's facts are different. 

And even amongst the JWs on here they disagree on facts. 

But if you want scriptural fact, then it seems Jesus said, recorded at Luke 17 : 21

    Hello guest!

nor will they say, 'Behold here,' or 'There.' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." 

So, how can you say that the Kingdom did not exist whilst Jesus walked this Earth, when Jesus said it did. 

 

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A question or two.

The Anointed are 'a temple' 'the temple'  each one is an individual temple' ???

1 Corinthians 6:19

    Hello guest!

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have from God? And you are not your own,
 

1 Peter 2 : 9

    Hello guest!

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Revelation 1 : 5b - 6

To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—  and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

The original 'Temple' was of course a physical building. But what it the spiritual Temple ?

Is this 'new' Temple the same as the Kingdom ?  Or is each individual Anointed one a separate Temple ?

Is there 144,000 temples that make up the Kingdom, or is it one Temple ? 

 

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On 7/24/2021 at 8:22 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Thank you, but I have little or no trust in the Aid book 

You did want to know what WT had to say about the topic. 

 

On 7/24/2021 at 8:22 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. "

But, Jesus spoke those words whilst still human and here on earth. So it seems that whomever wrote this Watchtower Aid book section would have known that Jesus was King whilst Jesus was alive here on earth. 

So please tell me about 1914 ? What am I not understanding ? 

I see there have been quite a number of contributions since you asked this question, I have not read most of them yet as I just didn't have time, and I just now had a few moments to reply.

This is not just a reply to you but in general. So here goes.

The WT doesn't deny that Jesus was king after his resurrection, since he had proved faithful to the end. When he told the pharisees that the kingdom was in their midst, he was talking about himself as he was from the royal lineage of king David, psalms talks about the greater David. Jesus was also anointed at his baptism, but any of that, his anointing and his being king, could have been made obsolete had he been unfaithful. It is after his death that he became the deserved immortal king. Now, when it comes to him being enthroned in 1914, the WT is looking at it this way I think: It all has to do with the last days. Jesus said he would be with his disciples until the end. So WT understand that to mean that Jesus was their King, ruling over them, but not yet king over God's kingdom as they believe that God's Kingdom did not get established until 1914 (the last days). So really, one needs to figure out when the last days began. Did they begin in the 1st century or much later. JWI went over all this in a lot of detail somewhere.. There are scriptures which definitely indicate that Jesus was king when on earth and was given dominion over everything once back in heaven, as the Aid book says. How I am understanding this is; that Jesus being king while on earth and while in heaven is different from being king of God's kingdom. God's kingdom is a special administration for the purpose of governing the Christian congregation and to do all the things that this Kingdom is promising to do i.e. get rid of wickedness and restore paradise earth. Also, under this administration the dead will be brought back to life and God's will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. This multiple king idea can be compared to a king being king over more than one country simultaneously.
For example Cyrus the great was King of Anshan, King of Persia, King of Media, King of Babylon, King of Sumer and Akkad.

So I think in a similar way, Jesus was king "of the Jews" while on earth, then King of heaven after his resurrection, and then in the last days when the kingdom called "God's kingdom" is established, he became the king of that kingdom, i.e the chief ruler and administrator of that government/kingdom. This is how I can reconcile all the different scripturest that talk about Jesus as king after his baptism while still on earth, then becoming king on returning to heaven, and then becoming king during the last days (1914).  Same king, three different administrations.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Anna said:

So really, one needs to figure out when the last days began. Did they begin in the 1st century or much later. JWI went over all this in a lot of detail

Did he ever.

10 hours ago, Anna said:

There are scriptures which definitely indicate that Jesus was king when on earth and was given dominion over everything once back in heaven, …This multiple king idea can be compared to a king being king over more than one country simultaneously.

I recall something was written about “the kingdom of the son of his love” into which believers were transferred into.

”He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love,” (Colossians 1:13)  

This was written about here, in 1978, (scroll to paragraph 9)

    Hello guest!

but I don’t recall it has been discussed much since, maybe because I’ve never heard any brother other than @JW Insider postulate that the kingdom in all its fullness begins in 33CE. It makes no sense at all to me to think we have been in the last days for 1/3 of recorded history, yet there are plenty of verses that speak of Jesus reigning before what we now take as the ‘last days.’ It seemed hard to believe that Jehovah’s organization had never dealt with them. Now I see that they have, but not lately.

Does this ‘kingdom within a kingdom’ (like a Matryoshka doll!) account for these verses? Did JWI address that?

 

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