Like the Days of Noah...

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

and "the Gospel must first be preached in all nations before the great tribulation, and end of the world".[38]

But that is basically straight from God's word. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Newton expressed his belief that Bible prophecy would not be understood "until the time of the end",

Once again, this is written in God's word. So it seems he read the Bible.  Bibles were available in English from the 1550's if my research is correct. 

[BroRando]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

You give up when someone checks you. I refute because you refuse to understand what is mentioned, and you do not adhere to context, this goes back to you not knowing what a man girdled up actually met, likewise with anything pertaining to Strong's.

For a man who seeks God, perhaps take your head out of the jar of which your former faith is, and actually do the research; when you asked about "Core Teachings of Christianity", the answer to that was of total seriousness.

That being said, that comment of yours can easily be reverse uno-carded back to you with one link. So thread carefully - and clearly with everything and anything you uttered, is in the deck in question.

That being said, Jesus was a sympathetic person, he does not shift himself, likewise to those who express the same towards him, willing to listen. They do not shift like the sea after a few moments - Hebrews 4:15.

We're not talking about inspiration. We are talking about opinions and facts here, and you are only repeating yourself.

Let's take Jehovah's Witnesses out of the equation - How did you confuse, and or not discern the difference Traditions of Men vs. Christian Traditions? Someone who understands context, and all facts pertaining to Scripture would easily be able to discern what is what, and why this is, and how something has come to be.

Clearly if one has the spirit, they would not go on a tangent of something that can be discerned quickly.

JB, we all read what Rando has said. I merely pointed out that others, even modern day Bible Students mentioned that year in relations to events. Noticed you left that part out.

SM -  it isn't too far-fetched because although not anything pertaining to God's Day, there are those who hold an expectation of something that is to take place in 2034, series of events

So much so both Reslite and JWI were mentioned, as is cited - which you could have easily skipped to that and read it.

Now, you are now confusing the events concerning fulfillment in connection with the Christ with God's Day. If you read what Reslite and JWI mentioned, you would not interject with your own assumption - as stated, going upon your own opinions can be dangerous, in this case, damaging towards you.

Examples below:

JWI - However, there were a few months between November 1913 and July 1914 when Russell admitted that he was questioning his own expectations about 1914, and he even suggested that perhaps things could just go on for another century, and he wondered what people might think of all these predictions "100 years from now" (which would be 2014). Another time he mentioned what things might still be like if the time of trouble went on for 120 years (which would bring one to 2034).... Russell did not really think anything specific was supposed to happen in either 2014 or 2034. Russell gave no specific significance to those periods except to make the point that he no longer had as much confidence in the 1914 date.

Reslite - Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. Some Bible Students believe that it is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end.

That being said, you quoting Mark 13:32 (rf. Matt. 24:36, Mark 13:31, Acts 1:7), this is concerning God's Day, for if you forgot, it is in regards to Armageddon.

In Rando's case, the 120 year is in connection with Genesis 6:3-4, concerning Noah's Day into the 1914 notation held by JWs.

Do you hold on to that statement boldly? Because all your remarks, claims, assumptions and the like including reactions can be cited.

If that was the case, that sympathetic counsel from before would have stuck instead of you going around it as, showing that fact that it met nothing.

You are woefully incorrect, for not too long ago a meme made made you react in this manner. All the other things, even the citation from the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) resulted in you making a similar claim as to what you said in regards to the meme.

For if none of such were true, I would not make such a statement.

All I need is a quote and a link, as with the other remark.

That isn't assertiveness. Being assertive is finding the right balance between passivity and aggression. It means having a strong sense of oneself and your value, and acknowledging that one deserve to get what they sought after, achieving. If you were true to your own words, as stated before a meme would not cause you to react in that manner, an assertive person would simply brush it off, and not shut himself away from something so minor and meaningless.

This isn't a judgement, it is clear discernment. If someone reacts in such a manner, and in their choice of words, it shows, thus all remarks in this regard is true.

I haven't chosen to "hound you" I corrected you on a few Strong's then you added tacked on all the other stuff, knowing that I'd respond to it, as seen on page 5. It is already known by you how I am with Strong's.

It isn't about Tom or Arauna. It is about the FACTS. I mentioned them because you are always intertwined with them in nearly all discussion, even for the period of absence.

Going back to page 1 regarding Noah's Day, you claim of assertiveness is pretty much null too due to you even mentioning Arauna when it was not necessary to do so, and this was not the first time, you do this with others.

Your issue is, you want everything to be as so, no one to show factual information and to accept as is. Truthers do not run with that mindset, mainly to those who relentlessly defend Scripture and core teachings and practices of the apostolic church, as is, with calling out those who speak misconception of someone or something.

Discernment tells a different story, hence why I uphold 1 John 4:1. Jesus always wants his followers to be truthful. It is problematic to answer to falsehood and professing it, likewise to go about things deemed unproven, such as you not really knowing what the term Tradition of Men is, and equating it to something else. More so, you being a former Jehovah's Witness, who do not even know as to how your own operate in a setting where people of different backgrounds and culture react to someone who isn't like them.

That being said, do the research and look into all sources of information in regards to what Rando is talking about. If you did your DD, you find this - Watchtower 2003 December 15 pp.14-19 Our Watchfulness Takes On Greater Urgency [https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923]

Regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses, this is where the viewpoint originated from concerning events; warning signs of the End Times, according to them.

EDIT:

Ah yes there it is, the reaction. latter is null, which was proven once again.

Warned of “Things Not Yet Beheld”

6. What did Jehovah determine to do in Noah’s day?

⁶ In Noah’s day, Jehovah declared: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3) The issuance of this divine decree in 2490 B.C.E. marked the beginning of the end for that ungodly world. Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring “the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens.”—Genesis 6:17.

[https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923]

1914 marks the beginning of the end for this ungodly world.  Only 120 years more and the end for Satan's System of things will start dissolving!  

It's Spiritual... 

2 Peter 3:10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.

Unbelievers are not allowed to SEE... turn around!  "You are going the Wrong Way"  Quote taken from the movie, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. 😀

 

 

[Space Merchant]

14 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But that is basically straight from God's word. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.

Once again, this is written in God's word. So it seems he read the Bible.  Bibles were available in English from the 1550's if my research is correct. 

Everyone knows this a quotation. You didn't know about Newton in regards to 2034 until it was brought up. Issacs Newton was not much of a Bible reader, but, he was someone interesting in God and knows Jesus is God's Son not God himself, hence the fight with the Trinity Troop. The only reason he was called a heretic, a mason, a false prophet was due to the fact he didn't believe Jesus is God, hence the link to the thread involving JWs, Ex-JWs and LDS going at it, that is, if you even check links.

Regarding 1550s, this is already known. What research have you done for 1550? This is the only time Newton was mentioned. Newton the type to call out Scripture errors of the Church.
 

[BroRando]

8 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But that is basically straight from God's word. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.

Once again, this is written in God's word. So it seems he read the Bible.  Bibles were available in English from the 1550's if my research is correct. 

• Isaac Newton’s Search for God
• NEWTON WRESTLES WITH THE TRINITY DOCTRINE
• WHY NEWTON REJECTED THE TRINITY

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977284?q=isacc+newton&p=doc

[Space Merchant]

4 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Warned of “Things Not Yet Beheld”

6. What did Jehovah determine to do in Noah’s day?

⁶ In Noah’s day, Jehovah declared: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3) The issuance of this divine decree in 2490 B.C.E. marked the beginning of the end for that ungodly world. Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring “the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens.”—Genesis 6:17.

[https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923]

1914 marks the beginning of the end for this ungodly world.  Only 120 years more and the end for Satan's System of things will start dissolving!  

It's Spiritual... 

2 Peter 3:10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.

Unbelievers are not allowed to SEE... turn around!  "You are going the Wrong Way"  Quote taken from the movie, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. 😀

 

The article in question may have been used out of context by some, in regards to the 120 range of years, people go to this article. So in regards to what you said and this article it can easily be deduced to warning events and the like, hence what I mentioned to Srecko. I am still researching on more that Reslite mentioned, as is the Bible students concerning 2034, because for them, they fit your view along with Newton's view

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You made an accusation, without even acknowledging the quotation equates to it.

That being said, both yield the same reaction, and the same accusation.

I will not be drawn out on this issue. I do not want some one to use it as an excuse to remove me from here. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Both Paul and Barnabas did have their disagreements and forgave each other, however, neither of them attribute to misinformation and opinions deemed unproven.

My point about those two early Christians was that they disagreed, went seperate ways, but still forgave each other. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

This is why I said to Arauna and Rando that Christians can break like glass should enduring events take place.

Indeed Christians can break and some do. However having left the JW Org I feel spiritually stronger because i have to 'go it alone' as far as people are concerned. My faith in God through Christ is stronger and that is what matters to me. 

Have a good day.

[Space Merchant]

3 minutes ago, BroRando said:

• Isaac Newton’s Search for God
• NEWTON WRESTLES WITH THE TRINITY DOCTRINE
• WHY NEWTON REJECTED THE TRINITY

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977284?q=isacc+newton&p=doc

Trinitarians to this day deem Newton as a Freemason and a Heretic because he rejects the Trinity.

 

I found another Trinity vs Anti Trinity source in this regard, with the inclusion of Newton this time - https://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/1224601-no-time-times-running-out-6.html

 

They sourced this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton

The real question is, was there anyone else who held a view with 2034 included after Newton and before Jehovah's Witnesses/Bible Students and some of Christendom?

[BroRando]

3 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I will not be drawn out on this issue. I do not want some one to use it as an excuse to remove me from here. 

My point about those two early Christians was that they disagreed, went seperate ways, but still forgave each other. 

Indeed Christians can break and some do. However having left the JW Org I feel spiritually stronger because i have to 'go it alone' as far as people are concerned. My faith in God through Christ is stronger and that is what matters to me. 

Have a good day.

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven? Nope!

[Space Merchant]

16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I will not be drawn out on this issue. I do not want some one to use it as an excuse to remove me from here. 

No one is going to remove you for anything. Confessing your problems and speaking truth resolves you of this much heat going your way. You live by your word. Being truthful to oneself sets one free.

16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

My point about those two early Christians was that they disagreed, went seperate ways, but still forgave each other. 

But you latched on something that is outside of that point, which does not really hold merit. You simply took an example and tried to equate it to what is taking place.

In this regard, you and Rando. You quickly went to his neck regarding 2034, not even seeing as to HOW and WHY he reached that conclusion, you didn't even give JWI findings a chance, to which he gave an ample amount of information.

16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Indeed Christians can break and some do. However having left the JW Org I feel spiritually stronger because i have to 'go it alone' as far as people are concerned. My faith in God through Christ is stronger and that is what matters to me. 

Have a good day.

But you prove the point by most that former JWs are not usually that strong in the faith because they give in to misconceptions and misinformation. They do not throw themselves into deep study afterwards, be it you agree or disagree with JWs. This is evident in some of the responses you give in some threads, even the recent ones.

You need to be spiritual stronger because what you are in right now is what your name suggest "waiting for truth". You ignore any counsel for research even when it has nothing to do with faith groups, so how can one build faith if does not take care of his spiritual needs?

You will need to do more because as someone who has been in the trenches, and knows who is actually a threat to the faith, differs very much to those who make the claim.

As one of the chosen, or as you say, True Anointed, said before he passed, anyone can be or say they are a Christian but do they show it by their word and action? Use discernment to know who is on your side and who is not.

My days are always good, as humble as the next day and the next. You have a good day, mainly in your current situation.

That being said, it would be wise to look into why 2034 was brought up.

I won't link it again, look at what JWInsider said, do not ignore it this time. You do not have to care what I call you out for, but you are known to pay attention to what he says, so apply that:

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:22 AM, BroRando said:

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven? Nope!

And what do you think this has to do with me ? 

I have not denied Almighty God or Jesus Christ.  I study God's written word and also pray to him. 

I have strong faith in God through Christ. And I do not guess at dates that are none of my business. 

I do not try to mislead others. I am not after followers for myself. 

The fact that I give warning about the JW Org having Pedophiles in it, and that Child Sexual Abuse takes place in it, this cannot be a bad warning to people. 

And the fact that I do not believe your GB are the F&DS has no bearing on my love for God or Christ. 

Jesus made a point of telling His disciples not to make names for themselves and not to place themselves above others. 

Unfortunately you seem to think that the Watchtower/JW Org replace God and Christ. You seem to be worshipping your  Organisations and your GB, or pretendig to do so. 

I do wonder if you are actually a JW at all. Or if you are deliberately trying to bring shame on that Organisation. That is exactly what Billythe Kid and others tried to do, and Billy also used  this way of trying to condemn me. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Space Merchant said:

You quickly went to his neck regarding 2034, not even seeing as to HOW and WHY he reached that conclusion, you didn't even give JWI findings a chance, to which he gave an ample amount of information.

What I seem to notice is that JWs (or pretend JWs) will use outside information when it suits them, and discard outside information when it does not fit with their ideas. 

Now regarding 2034. Surely it does not matter how many people have 'come to this conclusion' ?  Firstly, why are people needing to find a date ?  And why would JWs need to trust the words of 'worldly' men or men of other 'faiths' ? 

At this point I would question, is 2034 a Watchtower / JW Org teaching, or is it just a Rando teaching ? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Space Merchant said:

But you prove the point by most that former JWs are not usually that strong in the faith because they give in to misconceptions and misinformation. 

Are you suggesting that JWs have only 'true' information ?  This, you see, is an important matter.

The Watchtower / JW org is truthful on some matters, but that does not mean they are honest in all things. However the general consensus on this forum is that if a person leaves the JW Org, then they have left God, or left the 'truth'. 

So, are you saying that none of the Watchtower / JW Org teachings can be 'misinformation' ? 

Are you saying that the Governing Body of the Watchtower can not have 'misconceptions' ? 

 

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Space Merchant said:

I won't link it again, look at what JWInsider said, do not ignore it this time.

Yes, by @JW Insider references, Russell tied himself up in knots with dates, predictions and then doubts about it all. 

But quite funny that Russell thought that people would still be reading his books now. The International Bible Students which still exist, seem to support Russell I think. 

Since Rutherford started the new organisation of the JWs there must have been a hundred books written by them, most of which have now been removed. They keep saying they have 'new light'. 

So, is 2034 'new light' or just some peoples dream ? 

[Space Merchant]

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

What I seem to notice is that JWs (or pretend JWs) will use outside information when it suits them, and discard outside information when it does not fit with their ideas. 

Where is your evidence concerning the ideas? If you paid attention the focus was on their view, and the outside views are merely secondary, even those that pretend your former faith.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now regarding 2034. Surely it does not matter how many people have 'come to this conclusion' ?  Firstly, why are people needing to find a date ?  And why would JWs need to trust the words of 'worldly' men or men of other 'faiths' ? 

Date pertaining to what? Because you confused various events with God's Day 3 times now. This is why you were called out when you used Mark 13:32, which has nothing to do with 120/2034 concerning Genesis 6:3-4 for some.

If Rando was pointing directly to God's Day, likewise with Res and @JW Insider, then you'd have a case here. There are a group of people who believe 2034 is God's Day, and these folks aren't JWs, in fact, the link I cited yesterday even proves that. ExJws attest that JWs alluded to and believe God's Day will take place in 2034, pushing the notation that they made this claim and or pushed this idea.

In Rando's case he seems more focused on fulfillment and events as is warnings that correlate with Noah's Day. Even more evidence to that is from the 2003 Watchtower, which was linked (only took minimum research to find) of which the focus concerning Noah derives from, yet you ignored it. Here it is again - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923

The irony here is you link JW stuff from time to time, why not this one?

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

At this point I would question, is 2034 a Watchtower / JW Org teaching, or is it just a Rando teaching ? 

You say this now, yet you earnestly attempt to speak of Newton.

The notation of 2034 did not originate with Jehovah's Witnesses. If you have people like Isaac Newton going about it, this alone shows it predates even the founder of the Bible Students himself. So much so, even modern Day Bible Students by their notation constitutes to that.

That being said, it can be said here that the Jehovah's Witnesses went on with what pastor Russell himself came to understand, and to JWI's credit - his findings was on point, clear cut.

Why question when the information and findings are presented? The real question is did you even bother to read said findings that JWI brought up (the thread of which he mentioned you in).

This is minor but this 2034 year is so spoken of by those in the religious space, that it was allegedly found in a graphic video game novel, ironically enough, with JWs being a faction.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Are you suggesting that JWs have only 'true' information ?  This, you see, is an important matter.

I'm suggesting that those who dive into misconceptions tend to come up with their own ideas and opinions about something or someone without research, discernment, etc. This is highly evident with how you are utterly unaware of Strong's and context at times, which you exposed yourself in this matter; others merely call it out.

Ok if the matter is this important, can you tell us HOW and WHY @BroRando came up with this conclusion?

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The Watchtower / JW org is truthful on some matters, but that does not mean they are honest in all things. However the general consensus on this forum is that if a person leaves the JW Org, then they have left God, or left the 'truth'. 

So now you spin a contradiction. Here you say they are right and or wrong at times, but other times you say they are wrong 100%?, often times constantly mentioned GB, csa, and a list of other things - Which is it?

No, that isn't the general consensus of this forum. A FORUM is a discussion space, this one in particular is just as that, and it was a place of debate before all the changes.

In this discussion, we are focused on the 2034 notation, and the misinformation pieces brought up and Traditions of Men, which you brought up, but cannot even bring forth evidence to.

It does not matter if you are currently a Jehovah's Witness, or a former, what matters is information.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So, are you saying that none of the Watchtower / JW Org teachings can be 'misinformation' ?

If you read my comments, you'd know what I am pointing to. You do not have to agree/disagree with JWs, but to go about misinformation only allows for others to be misguided, confused and start spouting opinions can most often be unproven. Even outside of the JW faith, this is the same with those who spread misinformation or their own ill opinion about Scripture.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Are you saying that the Governing Body of the Watchtower can not have 'misconceptions' ? 

Not once I mentioned the religious leaders directly, so where are you drawing this statement?

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes, by @JW Insider references, Russell tied himself up in knots with dates, predictions and then doubts about it all. 

Yet here you are confusing various events of fulfillment with God's Day. If you looked at what JWI's comments, you'd see what his conclusions were exactly in regards to Rando.

The fact you made this statement ultimately proves that you didn't even bother to read, let alone the comments made against you on that thread - I even quoted JWI, interestingly you did not catch that.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But quite funny that Russell thought that people would still be reading his books now. The International Bible Students which still exist, seem to support Russell I think. 

International Bible Students had since pass. Where have you been? Such ones are called the DBSA best known as Dawn Bible Students Association. They're often called Russellites (which they do not refer to themselves as such because it is Sectarian). Outside of JWs, they are the ones to defend Russell with extreme prejudice - mostly semi active in the US and in the UK.

Res Lite is a, in his words, Hellbent on Finding truth to the Scriptures. Res Lite is a Christian who studied Russell for a long time, 7-8 decades of research and study, and often comes to blows with JWs who do not know Russell too well and ExJWs who attack Bible Students. Res Lite does not like ExJWs due to what happened back in 2017, as is, with those attempting to claim that he is a Freemason, which that in of itself is false and misinformation often promoted by former JWs and weaponized to use against current Jehovah's Witnesses (and DBSAs, as is with Yah followers). Some DBSAs other than Res have put some of their findings out there, mainly to bring a gap, as to others, they invest their lives in the past.

You think? The known information is fact. Again, it does not take that much time to do quick research.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Since Rutherford started the new organisation of the JWs there must have been a hundred books written by them, most of which have now been removed. They keep saying they have 'new light'. 

JWs are new, they were originally Bible Students. After the death of Pastor Russell, Rutherford took over, and it wasn't until the late 1920s - early 1930s, the name change from Bible Students to Jehovah's Witnesses took place.

How are you so sure they removed all books?

Ok, and what point are you suggesting that they say new light? Again, Restorationists are this common when they come to a new discovery in Scripture or an understanding of something.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So, is 2034 'new light' or just some peoples dream ? 

How is it new light if it was most likely brought up by those who predate Bible Students themselves?

The difference between the views of 2034 are mentioned already - Rando was put into 1 out of the 3 categories, Newton and the others, which can easily be identified.

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So there seems to be 3 views for 2034

• Those who believe the End of the World is to take place; God's Day taking place.
• Those who believe that events concerning fulfillment is to take place.
• Those who believe Jesus will actually appear, a second coming, prior to God's Day.

One can only see this if they have a basic understanding of Rando's view and what JWI made note to.

For it is known that various things are to take place before God's Day, of which we do not know the time and day, of which Mark 13:32 actually fits.

So that being said, if Rando fits the second one, why are you stating he is suggesting something totally different? As mentioned you made the claim 3 times.