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NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT IS TRUE ?


Patiently waiting for Truth

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On 8/6/2021 at 9:51 AM, Space Merchant said:

The Jehovah's Witnesses speak on this, but there is more going on that they do not know about, even as a whole, those that do are among the rare few.

Now this is interesting because the GB of the JW org say they are the F&DS and they say they are 'guided' by God. 

On 8/6/2021 at 9:51 AM, Space Merchant said:

for, in the JWs case, the situation with Russia, with events that took place before their banning (like 2016 in regards to religion, and 2017 in regards to the general public), and what essentially replaced them.

One would think that if the Watchtower / JW Org was God's chosen organisation then the Leaders would have known as much as you did back then. In fact they should have known even more, and should have known before you did.  Then they should have protected their own people, rather than leave them there to suffer. 

Tell me, these rare few that know so much more than everyone else. Are they guided by God or men ? 

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It is. You needlessly complicate it by being overly exacting, excessively unforgiving, and too enamored with your own righteousness. “NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HO

NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT IS TRUE ? The ONLY reason such considerations are important is judging the credibility of those who claim to

Come come. Add hypersensitivity to the list. Jesus nailed through the hands or wrists? That’s your crisis of faith that causes you to patiently wait? Who cares? If he was shot with a gun it

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23 hours ago, Witness said:

These political and religious entities are not  Watchtower’s greatest threat.  How can they be, when they’ve shared the same bed together?  (now, we’re finding out that they are donating donated money to politicians’robbing from the poor and giving to the rich’ to support wt’s platform.)

(now, we’re finding out that they are donating donated money to politicians’robbing from the poor and giving to the rich’ to support wt’s platform.)

I think you need to give full details of this if you are making this a serious accusation.  Or at least give us a link or reference to be able to 'check it out' 

My feeling about the CSA situation and that 25 year Pedophile Database (information of which seems to have gone very quiet of late) is they someone is being paid off to keep it all quiet. If your accusation is correct then I'd like to know the details. But right now I will keep an open mind about it. 

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7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

think you need to give full details of this if you are making this a serious accusation.  Or at least give us a link or reference to be able to 'check it out' 

This is what I can give you.  https://speakoutinfearlessness.blogspot.com/2021/07/watchtower-of-jehovahs-witnesses.html?fbclid=IwAR1wyzf4vYeWVirn52OYeRnPz2dAy1r0lQnwxbJ4kCczdtFV1DTSu9ehQHo

I went to followthemoney.org after seeing your post and came up with the same info as in the video.  But, by the powers that be, any reference to the Watchtower Society is now gone.  Take from it what you will.  The organization has hidden its sins, its hypocrisy...its true dealings in the world, for a number of years, and it will continue to make a hard effort to do so, until God exposes every crack in its walls.  No longer will they be able to whitewash over them.  Ezekiel 13

 

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8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now this is interesting because the GB of the JW org say they are the F&DS and they say they are 'guided' by God. 

You clearly didn't get the point of what I conveyed. The JWs are not aware of the things that take place in terms of Babylon and the UN's current action.

So let me ask you, what did Babylon do right now?

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

One would think that if the Watchtower / JW Org was God's chosen organisation then the Leaders would have known as much as you did back then. In fact they should have known even more, and should have known before you did.  Then they should have protected their own people, rather than leave them there to suffer. 

Tell me, these rare few that know so much more than everyone else. Are they guided by God or men ? 

They were aware of what transpired in 2016 and 2017, but not of the things that took place that is unknown to everyone, i.e. what the church of Russia did afterwards with the meet up of Pope Francis.

This has nothing to do with guidance, more so, of total and absolute observance.

Not even you know what the latter has done in the UK, previously, and currently, mainly London. At least having minor awareness enables one to see the danger and take action, but those who do not can easily be swept away. But I do, and a few others because we are freakishly observant when it came to these things.

An example(s) I can give is the guy named the Trinitarian who comes here, Matthew. He didn't know the pastor of whom he defends is part of the group Babylon used to sway the people back in 2016 in the United States, and what transpired afterwards, let alone the events leading up to the events of 2016.

Another example is your frenemy, Arauna, she is aware of how dangerous the United Nations is, however, she is not aware of how the enemy is trending, an example of this is the Agenda 2030 situation, she knows what it represents, but do not know what is taking place for the agenda to pass, how the people are effected in the process, let alone how the MSM is slowly feeding people said information. Or that of JWI knew about AoC, but did not know AoC is a Statist.

In your case, you are not aware of the inner workings of the MSM, but I do. This is evident in the discussion of Australia some months back when you didn't know what the agenda was for the Alt-Right.

That bein said, as long as they are aware of what they see on the surface, they can evade the waves of both Babylon and the Beast, some will falter if pressure is put on them, to others, they hold to endurance to maintain themselves until the very end. Likewise with even religious folk, or even religious leaders who are looked upon as enemies to those of Babylon.

As for your minor remark, God gave us the ability to be observant, so we can be prepared as well as see a danger before it takes place, as is with trending carefully - Ps. 22:3; Eph 5:15.

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15 hours ago, Thinking said:

Can you please expand on this explanation…as to what we as a people dont quiet..or deeply understand..as to the UN…I think I have an idea but I’d really like you to spell it out for me…

The United Nations is on a conquest for Security while the latter is on a conquest for Peace, the religious leaders being used as a tool in this regard. They seek to hit a few targets in their plans, as is one often mentioned here, Agenda 2030. With the pandemic, this only pushes their motives even faster, mainly with the division taking place around the globe concerning the virus, but also, broken economics, people being left back, etc, which in turn causes strife and anger between people, for when the people are each others necks, even fighting each other, it leaves them defenseless.

Most people, mainly in the US, do not trust the UN, mainly the political folk after the Charlottesville aftermath. On the other side of the spectrum, you have the religious leaders, who in turn are doing their role accordingly. You and I both know they are of Babylon, but you not knowing what they've done to sway people to their side, mainly to form an interfaith, but in the last few years it was even stronger compared to what was attempted in the early 2000s.

Although the UN is neither State or Government, they have their influence and their hands in affairs, and at the same time is often the in-between of superpowers and their allies, an example of this is former UN member Nikki Haley who was among those who pressed against a US rival (RU friendly), Syria, then we have the situation with Jayish Al-Islam and what they did, mainly to children and unsuspecting civilians in the Middle East in order to reap an emotional response of the people, and further entice the idea of branding someone as a target. The MSM is a powerful tool in this sense because people are intertwined with media they 100% believe anything said, which is problematic. It is one of those things Kosenen and I pointed out.

 

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20 hours ago, Witness said:

The organization’s threat comes from those who were once among them,

This is exactly what happened with the early Christians. It was a point David S said in his talk, and I was surprised because I had said it in TTvtA & I had otherwise heard it nowhere else.

Within 35 years after Jesus death, Christians has the reputation of “haters of the human race.” (Tacitus—writing on the persecution of Nero’s time) How could that possibly be? One religious scholar (G.A. Wells) said it was due to their “informants,”—former members eager to put the faith in the worst possible light. These would have been persons such as John wrote of, those “chattering about us with wicked words”—ones such as yourself,  jealous of being usurped and ready to say the most vile things about former brothers and sisters, characterizing the “presumptuous” Peter as being a racist for his one time avoiding the Gentiles, for instance, or a coward for 3 times denying his Lord. “He’s the one with the keys to the kingdom?” I can hear you jeering right now.

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Many leave the organization and find their faith in the Father and the Son has blossomed. 

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

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43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

I wouldn't say all of them. Some only become apostates by going on a warpath against God, Christ, and or become very disgruntled at a group and or institution, be it faith based or not, in turn, this results in those who are just not connected to any faith group to react/take action who do not speak out against God or anything Bible based.

This is why in most apostate media, especially the ones concerning JWs, you have those who are no longer of the faith attacking those spreading misinformation, but they are drowned out and often have accusations thrown in their direction. Mainly for those who do not know various things, like the Laws of each state for example, or even finance, if I remember there was some talk about bounds and benefactors, of which was pushed, but information for a former faith follower addressed the truth in this regard.

The irony is, among even apostates there are those who do nefarious things, for example, fighting against something, yet they practice something disgusting and or defend such ones, other times, unaware of ill action by their own.

My one of my adversaries, is semi-religious, but she is attacked in this same manner, even grossly.

Atheistism is problematic. So far I only see them unable to speak against those who are knowledgeable, hence the guys over in London.

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13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

Two points.  

@Witness said.

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Many leave the organization and find their faith in the Father and the Son has blossomed. 

And your reply was

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

So are you now admitting that it is people that LEAVE THE ORG that are apostates OF THE ORG ?  

NOT turning against God or Christ, because that is the second point. 

You say " modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route ".

So you are saying that you KNOW that most people who are apostate to JW Org are now atheist. That's a big accusation.

However in reality you don't even know how many are still serving God or how many are not. You just have your own agenda and write things to suit it. 

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apostate
/əˈpɒsteɪt/
noun
  1. a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.
    abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. "an apostate Roman Catholic"
     
    13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

    Some only become apostates by going on a warpath against God, Christ, and or become very disgruntled at a group and or institution,

    I do wish we could all be of some agreement as to what Apostate really means. 

    It seems some here think as I do, that it renounces a religious or political belief or principle.

    Whereas others think it is turning against God and Christ. 

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

This is why in most apostate media, especially the ones concerning JWs, you have those who are no longer of the faith attacking those spreading misinformation

It is true that all faiths have their apostates. An apostate of the Mormons, for example, is not what JWs would consider an apostate. What we do know is apostates were a preoccupation of the New Testament writers. Not one of them fails to mention them. Peter is especially concerned with them. Jude is exclusively devoted to them and deals with nothing else. 

If it was true then, it should be true today. And nobody has apostates as voracious as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am proud of them. They validate us. They do indeed make trouble, just as they did in the first century. On the other hand, what if the Witnesses had no apostates? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?

As to the majority going the atheist route, that is just an impression hard to escape upon going to areas in which they hang out. The most visible ones on social media are undoubtably atheist, scornful of their former faith but also of God. It is in accord with the general trend of society that leans atheist. I don’t know if anyone has actually made a survey of it to find out the exact proportion.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
22 hours ago, Witness said:

The organization’s threat comes from those who were once among them,

This is exactly what happened with the early Christians.

Today is a spiritual repeat of apostasy in Jesus' day.  The greatest threat to the Jewish leaders, was those in Christ who left to follow him - who had once been  "among them", among the Jewish system.   The GB mimic the leadership of the Pharisees, expecting full devotion, detailed service, and obedience above and beyond the Father and the Son.  If this wasn't true, there would be no disfellowshipping for rejecting THEM and THEIR doctrine.  

And then again, "among" those who were anointed, false teachers arose.  Jesus tells us, they could very likely deceive the "elect", the saints.  (Matt 24:24; Acts 20:29)  

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Don't you take the message of your leaders to others?  Don't you bring this message?  I did not come to JWs, they came to me.  Upon hearing the message, my ears perked up to a few "grains" of truth, as Splane mentioned is the tool of apostates...and then the time came...

"when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."  2 Tim 4:3,4

Fables, i.e. "beliefs clarified" (and how many teachings and false dates were not included in the list?)

HUMAN TEACHINGS, EMPTY DECEPTION.  Col 2:8

What characteristics designate a false teacher, Tom?  Check your beliefs clarified list and apply its evidence to prove your leadership cannot speak truth. And yet, JWs cling to their every word.  (1 Tim 4:1)  If that list was provided to the householder, (an insert flyer in a magazine perhaps?), I wonder how many people would become JWs.  The householder would say,  "Oh, by the way we have compiled our list of empty deception, and felt the need for you to look it over."

Do you see?  What are you defending?  What spiritual substance is there from your organization, that lasts?  (John 15:16)  Just a few grains of truth?  Is that really all that Jesus promised us?  (John 7:38; 4:13,14; Rev 22:17)

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:
 
 
apostate
/əˈpɒsteɪt/
noun
  1. a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.
    abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. "an apostate Roman Catholic"
     

    I do wish we could all be of some agreement as to what Apostate really means. 

    It seems some here think as I do, that it renounces a religious or political belief or principle.

    Whereas others think it is turning against God and Christ. 

And your point?

I am surprised you shy away from the Biblical Description. Here you go - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g646/esv/tr/0-1/ and https://biblehub.com/greek/646.htm

 

That being said, there are many, MANY receipts in this regard.

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