The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. That’s called making the same missteps as the original disciples did, missteps all stemming from an eagerness to see the kingdom come.

Understandably. It just means that each new generation (new GB generation, new JW members generation, or people in general) has learned nothing from previous generations from the recent or distant past.  

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6)

Is this paragraph about asking questions due to a misunderstanding by followers? Or is it that the followers tried to set the dogma on the basis of Jesus' teaching and-or previous or subsequent answers / comments / illustrations He gave them?

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s not ideal, then or now, but that’s what imperfect people do. It sure beats the pants off of giving up on the whole project.

Sure, it’s not ideal for a sinner to follow another sinner, but if a JW member so desires, who am I to object to that?  

[Witness]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

Which is true because in a majority of threads and posts, you can see not only the use of spurious text, but some teachings that even the Watchtower would not even attest to.

Of COURSE the Wt. will not attest to Pearl's teachings, because she is exposing their false doctrine.

On 8/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

Reasons why Pearl was called out several times,

WHO called her out?  You?  Do you think you are the first one to come against her teachings?

On 8/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

even other former Witnesses.

I'm not surprised when people like Robert King is waiting at the exit door to lead them down another rabbit hole. You do realize that Satan will use his own "chosen" ones to mislead the anointed remnant; whether inside the organization or by the likes of men like Robert King.  And also, not everyone leaving thirsts to find truth.  

On 8/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

She mixes beliefs together, as well, attesting to the idea that The Judges of Israel somehow had a "Church" which justifies attempting to change God's order,

Please, show me proof of what you are saying.  She teaches the anointed Body of Christ as the "church".  I have not heard anything about the judges of Israel as having had a "church".  Now, if you are meaning the anointed priesthood of spiritual Israel, they ARE judges.  1 Cor 6:2

On 8/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

and or assuming that Satan was somehow sent by God to deal with the Egyptians.

  He is the Destroyer, who do you think did the destroying?  

Ps 78:43-49 - When He worked His signs in Egypt,
And His wonders in the field of Zoan;
44 Turned their rivers into blood,
And their streams, that they could not drink.
45 He sent swarms of flies among them, which devoured them,
And frogs, which destroyed them.
46 He also gave their crops to the caterpillar,
And their labor to the locust.
47 He destroyed their vines with hail,
And their sycamore trees with frost.
48 He also gave up their cattle to the hail,
And their flocks to fiery lightning.
49 He cast on them the fierceness of His anger,
Wrath, indignation, and trouble,
By sending angels of destruction among them.

"Angels of destruction" - "evil angels/messengers"....belonging to whom?  Satan, the Destroyer   (Strongs H7451, H4397)

Satan is the Betrayer and the Destroyer.  Isa 33:1; John 10:10

God has sent a lying spirit  into the mouths of a false prophets. (1 Kings 22:19-23)  He allowed Satan to cause affliction on Job.   God doesn't follow the rules of men - not even your rules, SM.  Yet never would He do these things unless He had just cause.  

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Of COURSE the Wt. will not attest to Pearl's teachings, because she is exposing their false doctrine.

How is not accepting a New Age Theology a false doctrine? She herself has been duped, mainly for the fact you attested to a change, by means of her, regarding God's Order, His Structure. That is just one of these Pearl examples, of which can easily be linked. Granted JWs have the roots, as mentioned, they won't not even consider such things. Pearl herself also dwells on conspiracy theories.

Stuff like this one needs to be very careful about, and should not be proclaiming to people, even during a pandemic. That is and will be a problem.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

WHO called her out?  You?  Do you think you are the first one to come against her teachings?

There were several people, and I had showed you several times in the past coming from both Anti-JWs and Atheists. There are also others out there who ahs called her out. I called her out myself in regards to God's Orders, which has never changed since he put it in place. However, by means of what you attested to, Pearl said otherwise. To the respects of others here, no one, but you, attested to that, the latter tried to defend it with the Judges of Israel assuming Christianity began before the Christ. She was by challenged other ExJWs and even JWs, in the JWs regard, the Mark of the Beast. Some of her ideas were also challenged here.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

I'm not surprised when people like Robert King is waiting at the exit door to lead them down another rabbit hole. You do realize that Satan will use his own "chosen" ones to mislead the anointed remnant; whether inside the organization or by the likes of men like Robert King.  And also, not everyone leaving thirsts to find truth.  

Who said anything about Robert King? The man is not only a former witness, but an adversary to someone known for Bible History, who goes by the name Simon Brown. Satan ahs agents, he does not have chosen ones, let's not defile what meaning of what chosen stands for, let alone Firstfruits.

Robert King isn't the only one, Brown was able to deduce that before he got shut down. Likewise, others eve state this, and those like Robert King who have their version of some odd ideology to push to the people.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Please, show me proof of what you are saying.  She teaches the anointed Body of Christ as the "church".  I have not heard anything about the judges of Israel as having had a "church".  Now, if you are meaning the anointed priesthood of spiritual Israel, they ARE judges.  1 Cor 6:2

In the link below you were trying to justify a shift in God's Order, his Structure, you also kept trying to go back to anything WT or JW related instead of using the context of the Bible. You went as far as to claim this was the WT's doing, but in reality, that notation predates the WT and the majority of Christendom itself. The idea of a shift in Order originated from the Western view of equality in the church at this level.

I wasn't talking about the Priesthood, the focus was in relation to how God Structure the Church, and those in position, mainly those of religious office, here we can see you even attempt to allude to the idea Christian Churches existence in the ancient days of the Israelites by using Judges, which was not only a bad move, but also false here. We should not be doing such things to fool people, even when it comes to proclamation during a pandemic. You were even asked to name a church in regards, you had no answer, as is with your attempt at answering TR.

Evidence of the discussion can be found here:

 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

He is the Destroyer, who do you think did the destroying?

Satan was not the one who "protect the Israelites" and "attack the Egyptians". You proclaimed a while back that somehow this was Satan's doing. Which is false. God spoke to Moses, telling him he will send an angel to do such actions.

• Exodus 12:21 -  Then Moses summoned all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go at once and select the animals for your families and slaughter the Passover lamb. 22 Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. None of you shall go out of the door of your house until morning. 23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer [angel of death] to enter your houses and strike you down.

The Israelites were then instructed on what they must do, the infamous, blood on the doorframe, comes to mind and they were to remain in their homes. That night, an angel sent by God, also called Destroyer (Angel of Death) operated in a way exactly as to what God had told Moses. Due to this event, after the death of the Pharaoh's Son, he allowed Moses to take God's people out of the land of Egypt - and we all know what transpired after that regarding the Pharaoh.

In your quote below, you used the passages to equate, even attesting to the idea that God himself sent Satan to do these acts:

On 10/21/2018 at 12:57 PM, Witness said:

Acts of the Destroyer:

“When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.”  Exod 12:23

“By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. ²⁸ By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.”  Heb 11:27,28

Even when refuted, you kept insisting Satan was the one who somehow helped God, The Most High, then you contradicted after with things that are irrelevant.

On 10/27/2018 at 10:40 AM, Witness said:

Whatever damage is done to humans who are judged by Christ as not worthy of the Kingdom, is at the hand of the Destroyer, Satan. God removes His protection, and Satan steps in Exod 12:23

You were told afterwards, again the following:

On 10/27/2018 at 2:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

No, my view is always spiritual, never have I applied man's understanding when I have been against it for years, as with my disdain for the mainstream Christendom and it's accursed teachings, the watering down of God's Word, if you will.

How did Satan step in at Exodus 12:23 when it was God who sent an Angel (clearly not Satan) do exact judgement? Be very careful of the bitter water, Witness.

The verse even tells you

For the Lord [YHWH] will pass through to strike the Egyptians, and when he sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord [YHWH] will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses to strike you.

The Destroyer here was an Angel, in some translations, it will say the Angel of Death.

For example the GNT will say: When the LORD goes through Egypt to kill the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the beams and the doorposts and will not let the Angel of Death enter your houses and kill you.

God would never, or would it ever cross his mind to send or allow Satan to do such an action, nowhere in the Bible was Satan the Devil under Shaliach Principle, for he is God's Adversary, let alone any of the spirit beings who follow him because they have been banish from being in the presence of God (Matthew 8:28, 29; Luke 4:33, 34, James 2:19).

The same Angel of Death is later found in Scripture to save a follower of God from the Assyrians, as stated before.

If you think it was Satan that was this angel in Exodus 12:23, it is clear as to what kind of understanding you adhere to.

That being said, I suggest you re-read the passage of God choosing Moses to get his people out of the captivity of the Egyptians.

And there is more, if you want of this absurdity, the idea of God and Satan teaming up in this manner, is not just a lie, but a false teaching in of itself, accursed, it is also shown you or Pearl technically alluded to the Brother Theology, which is far worse.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

49 He cast on them the fierceness of His anger,
Wrath, indignation, and trouble,
By sending angels of destruction among them.

I hope you do realize this verse references the events of the Israelites and the Egyptians.

So to you God sent Satan, or an angel? Granted by your firm belief in God using Satan, it can be seen on where you stand. And I doubt anyone would defend you here because as they remain silent on this matter because they were not aware of what you said - until now.

It is also apparent you do not know what Shaliach Principle is.

Of course you use the KJV, accept TR instead of giving evidence in a related question.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan is the Betrayer and the Destroyer.  Isa 33:1; John 10:10

This just shows an absolute lack of Bible knowledge, on your part, I have your quotations regarding this too...

You stated:

On 10/21/2018 at 12:57 PM, Witness said:

“Woe to you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed! Woe to you, betrayer, you who have not been betrayed! When you stop destroying, you will be destroyed; when you stop betraying, you will be betrayed.”  Isa 33:1

 Are there two Destroyers, Satan and Jesus?  Are WT’s spiritual leaders so illiterate that they cannot see WHO the Destroyer really is?  Jesus came to save, not destroy.  Don’t you think it is quite contradictory to believe Jesus, (yes, Jesus and not an organization) is salvation, which is the giver of LIFE, and yet also a DESTROYER OF LIFE?  John 14:6; 20:30,31  He conquers with the “breath of his mouth” and with “the brightness of his coming”, at the time of the end. 2 Thess 2:8   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A6%3B+20%3A30%2C31%3B+2+Thess+2%3A8+&version=NKJV

You were told the following:

On 10/25/2018 at 10:33 PM, Space Merchant said:

Isaiah 33:1 [part A] points to 2 Kings 18:13 and Isaiah 10:15 while [part B] points to Isaiah 10:12 and Nahum 3:7.

Isaiah 33:1-14 is titled in outline Distress and Help (all the way through to verse 24). as The proud and false destroyer justly reckoned with for all his fraud, violence and bloodshed, but we have our righteous God deals with such ones who do such things. Those who by faith humbly wait for God, shall find him or herself gracious to them; as the day, so let the strength be.

Prophet Isaiah addressed who the "Destroyer" in this passage/verse. For he speaks here about Assyria. At the peak of its power, this aggressive nation appears to be undefeated, for they are very violent and commit acts of bloodshed has already been addressed, hence they are the Destroyer that destroys, in this sense, for we know what Assyria is capable of, mainly in those days. This nation was the one responsible for ravaging the cities of Judah, even stripping the house of God of everything, down to wealth and resources, by doing so with a total disregard at heart, hence what is read in 2 Kings 18:14-16 and 2 Chronicles 28:21, we can throw in Isaiah 10:5 for fun here too - "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord [Yahweh/Jehovah]." (Genesis 10:9). However, they were not the "Destroyer" for long, for that same passage of which you quoted tells you they will be destroyed – a fulfilling of prophecy is to those faithful, as declared by Prophet Isaiah.

1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God's messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.

Isaiah 33:1 or chapter 33 in general is regarding the "Destroyer" (The Assyrian/Assyria). Who in turn is eventually destroyed by another, an Angel (Angel of Death also known as a Destroyer).

Now going back with the verses before you tried to mix up, Sennacherib, who is an Assyrian, for Assyria (the Destroyer mentioned in Isaiah 33:1) threatened to destroy Jerusalem, which at the time its ruler being Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz. God responded by sending an Angel, and this Angel, who was sent, took out, or as some would say, steamrolled 185,000 Assyrian Soldiers as they prepared to enter the city (2 Kings 18-19, Isaiah 37:33-38). For we do not see Satan or Jesus, but an Angel, and before that we know of Assyria, who was a Destroyer themselves, thus the God of Hezekiah, going with Prophet Isaiah, destroyed the destroyer, which is, Assyria.

When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed;

This is why, Witness, you shouldn't be mixing verses because it will not help you in the long run. Did you not learn the last several times you were found out to be doing this, let alone ignorance to context?

According to your response, let's take a look at the verses themselves:

NOTE: Keep this in mind. In the Bible, it speaks of spirit beings are, at times, referred to as stars (Job 38:7, Isaiah 14:13). Jesus is also referred to as a star, to be more specific, the bright morning star (Numbers 24:17, Revelations 2:28, 22:16).

 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

God has sent a lying spirit  into the mouths of a false prophets. (1 Kings 22:19-23)  He allowed Satan to cause affliction on Job.   God doesn't follow the rules of men - not even your rules, SM.  Yet never would He do these things unless He had just cause.  

God has his own rules and I am wise enough to not expose you for attempting to shift his rules, even his teachings.

God would never allow Satan to help him, as for Job, you seem to miss the context here, for Satan was the one to challenge God in front of his angels.

It seems you easily forget what you tend to copy/paste from Pearl, the above were just a few examples, I can simply quote you because you leave an abundance of what can easily be refuted. Indeed, God does not like false prophets, granted the MSC is full of them, including your Pearl, as is some of their theories, and the sources of which she gets it from. Perhaps as soon as we find a JW church filled with what was attest, then maybe people will take her seriously.

The problem here is in regards to what you addressed prior, it shows you are part of the MSC, as the majority of Christendom, for I even told you, you could do much better, if it were not for these mix up, theories and errors you tend to follow unknowingly.

 

That being said, who said they were my rules? Concordances, Strong's and our earliest sources are vital and key. It is by means of such we even have the Holy Bible. I do not attest to anything NOT written by the inspired prophets and chosen of God, the very reason I cited Peter, but you, ignore what was mentioned by Peter.

You, still have a lot to learn, but the MSC mindset prevents you from doing so.

 

Again, the KJV/RSV isn't the best choice.

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

God would never allow Satan to help him,

Did I say that God allow Satan to HELP him?  No.

God doesn't need anyone's help, but He allows Satan to step in when His laws are rejected after He has warned His people of what could befall them.  

2 Thess 2: “The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, ¹⁰ and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”  9,10

2 Thess 2:  For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, ¹² so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.”

The presence of the “man of lawlessness” is apparent in the working of Satan.  Those under Satan’s deluding influence of this “man”,  are perishing – dying – will reach death.  And in this case it is his plan for them to die.  (Rev 20:7-10)

God “sends”  -  He allows this delusion – the working of Satan, because they refuse to love the truth.

If the warning God provides to those under this delusion is rejected, then Satan will bring death upon them – because he is the Angel of Death that God “sends”.  (Rev 18:4-8)

Satan destroys, death is destruction of life.

"You are of your father the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.”  John 8:44

Satan is a murderer.  He is the Angel of Death.  It’s pretty simple. 

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

In the link below you were trying to justify a shift in God's Order, his Structure, you also kept trying to go back to anything WT or JW related instead of using the context of the Bible.

You cannot understand the spiritual fulfillment in the last days.  To you, it is all physical.  The anointed priesthood is the spiritual Body of Christ/church.  (1 Cor 12; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 21:1-4;22:17)  This is God's order, His structure.  You believe in organized religion.  I don’t, not according to the way of man. (John 4:21-24) I believe that through God’s “organized” anointed priesthood, the law of God’s truth in Christ and His Bride (male or female), will be present on the earth in the Kingdom.  (Mal 2:7; Rev 5:9,10)

We've been through this before.  I'm finished!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pudgy]

After briefly scanning all of the above, I have one question. 
What is a MSC?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 8/21/2021 at 12:48 PM, Pudgy said:

After briefly scanning all of the above, I have one question. 
What is a MSC?

Possibly Main Stream Christianity = Catholic / Protestant. 

 

[Space Merchant]

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Did I say that God allow Satan to HELP him?  No.

Your quote was pretty clear, as is what you said afterwards. The angel of the lord sent was not Satan in the book of Exodus, or anything related to Hezekiah.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

God doesn't need anyone's help, but He allows Satan to step in when His laws are rejected after He has warned His people of what could befall them.  

Why on earth would God allow Shaliah to be performed by the Devil himself concerning the passover? Let alone how can a rebellious spirit even do Shaliah? Satan has nothing to do with helping the Israelites in Egypt, mainly in regards to the instruction God gave to Moses.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

2 Thess 2: “The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, ¹⁰ and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”  9,10

You are deviating from the passover by going with other verses. Typical. Again, how on God's green earth, was Satan under Shaliah concerning the Passover? You said in your own words, Satan stepped in, this after God gave instruction to Moses.

For you to deviate from the passover by interjecting with this - that will not slight if you were a preacher.

The problem here can be seen - you are attempting to mix verses again as a way to justify the ideology you/Pearl attest to when it is not true. The fact you simply ignored your own words is rather telling.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

God “sends”  -  He allows this delusion – the working of Satan, because they refuse to love the truth.

And what does that have to do with the passover and Hezekiah vs the Assyrians? We can had Sodom and Gomorrah to the list.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan destroys, death is destruction of life.

But why, according to you, he aided in God and Moses saving the Israelites from the Egyptians? You see, even years down the road, you were called out for that contradiction.

You said Satan stepped in concerning the events of Moses and the Israelites in Egypt.

The Bible tells us the truth compared to what you said. It states God himself will said an angel to take action. This is why it says Lord (Yahweh or Jehovah in some translations) in the verses afterwards because the angel in question acted on behalf of God, hence the Hebrew Word - Shaliah .

From the context alone we can see that:

• Satan or any rebellious spirit cannot commit Shaliah
• God's clear instruction to Moses the Levite
• Angel of the Lord under Shaliah
• God's enemies being destroyed and his people saved, so they can escape Egypt

 

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan is a murderer.  He is the Angel of Death.  It’s pretty simple. 

We know he is a murderer, but the problem is, why would God instruct his people, and later on, Satan somehow, according to you, helped out The Israelites and King Hezekiah?

The result in mixing verses puts you in a contradiction.

You seem to forget that Satan does not like God's people, for if he was the angel mentioned in both those passages, Moses and the Israelites would not have left Egypt, and possibly would have been killed by the Pharaoh to push an example. Likewise, we have Hezekiah, Assyrian king Sennacherib would have toppled the city and would have killed Hezekiah, which in turn, would make the Assyrian Prism justifiable due to the fact it mocked God and Hezekiah.

The Assyrian Prism is a real artifact that mocks God and Hezekiah with lies. - https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/W_1855-1003-1

So your ideology, as is with Pearl's, does not make a lot of sense because it contradicts with the context of Scripture. Anyone here knows exactly that there are several known in Scripture to be a Destroyer(s), and majority of them are one's sent by God, for the latter, in Hebrew, equates to The Angel of the Lord, hence the references for both Psalms 78:49 and Hebrews 11:27-28. Satan we know as a Destroyer also, but this is in the context that he is against God's people.

Just because you see Destroyer in Scripture, it does not automatically equate to Satan the Devil. Likewise to some who sees Lord and assumes it 100% means God. If that was true, according to you, you would not be dodging simple question concerning the Assyrians and The Passover.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

You cannot understand the spiritual fulfillment in the last days.

Yet in the thread linked you openly interjected yours's and Pearl's view of how God's Structure can easily be changed; the adaptation of Traditions of today's age, which you tried to justify and blame JWs for not accepting it, but in reality, the early church held no such view of what you attest to. Not to mention you later on in that thread assumed church congregations existed before the Christ when you tried to use Israel Judges, speaking as if Deborah was somehow a Church Leader, which is also false, she was a Judge of Israel, not a leader of a church congregation. You and Srecko even brushed over, and twisted Apostle Paul's words several times in that thread.

Any man or woman with spiritual fulfillment in mind, would not make such a mistake of that level, and defend it when they know they're in the wrong.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

To you, it is all physical.  The anointed priesthood is the spiritual Body of Christ/church.  (1 Cor 12; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 21:1-4;22:17)  This is God's order, His structure.  You believe in organized religion.  I don’t, not according to the way of man. (John 4:21-24) I believe that through God’s “organized” anointed priesthood, the law of God’s truth in Christ and His Bride (male or female), will be present on the earth in the Kingdom.  (Mal 2:7; Rev 5:9,10)

We've been through this before.  I'm finished!

And of course, even for Jehovah's Witnesses, and former Witnesses, they themselves would not adopt the ideology you and Pearl are clinging to. No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.

The fact that anyone can be asked those questions here, they would know who had a role to play in those situations, even that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 

Lastly, all angels act under Shaliah Principle. Rebellious spirits cannot, mainly due to the fact they are no longer in God's Presence.

That being said, of course you are. You can speak on the errors of others, but when it comes to Pearl, you cannot defend blasphemous ideologies, which is evident on how you used 2 Thess. 2 verses to doge anything related to Passover or The Assyrians. What is even more tragic, is you evidently ignored your own quotations. of which, in that discussion, to pulled from Pearl, as is with your utter dismantling of God's Order and Structure - therefore, it shows you are of the MSC.

Also you bring up the chosen ones again, for that is irrelevant to what your own words, or Pearl's words, attested to. Those lies would not work on anyone who understands even the basic history of God's people, mainly due to the fact the Passover, Sodom and Gomorrah, The Kings of Judah and their history is well known.

If you are a preacher of the gospel, you should know better. And we didn't even get into the conspiracy theories that Pearl adheres to, which I can easily quote you on.

 

[Space Merchant]

17 hours ago, Pudgy said:

After briefly scanning all of the above, I have one question. 
What is a MSC?

Mainstream Christendom. They're in full force during the pandemic.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Possibly Main Stream Christianity = Catholic / Protestant. 

It is more than that. It is a collection of Preachers and teachers who make up this fold, consist of Trinitarians (the majority), Binitarians, and even that some Anti-Trinitarians themselves, for they got duped into it because of the Interfaith and non-core teachings. The very reason why you see them together on the world stage. Essentially, anyone who is under Babylon, at this moment (as is those who openly accept her in the past). There are also several movements among the MSC that connects them even closer together, such as Kairos, the Interfaith, PEAK, etc. In regards to the United Nations, the big men of power under the Pope seeks peace, one of the reasons why they've been fighting to unify all faiths for years upon years now. Their hands has touched, in the religious aspects of things, the US soil, France, UK, anyone who is an ally of the UN in support of a unified government.

Catholics and Protestants joined via the movements, evident to the events of the past, i.e. 2016.

Prior to the End Times Tribulations, the MSC will soon go after those who are not on their side (which will be serious for that will be the time Babylon the Great will start going after people), for if pasts event was not a foreshadowing already. Should these things start, the EU will be hit by it first due the majority being reduced due to religious minorities.

Like I said in the other there, most people, even JWs are aware about what Babylon is and surface information of her actions, but various events, like 2016, or what Ted Turner said in the early 2000s, not many people know this, if not many, most. Babylon also has an effect on the non-religious, for they have a role to play concerning not just her, but the beast, something of which @Kosonen and I pointed out from time to time.

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.

Of course no one in their right mind would say that.  This statement shows what a liar you are. I never would say such a thing.  You can't be trusted, SM.  

[Space Merchant]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:52 PM, Witness said:

Of course no one in their right mind would say that.  This statement shows what a liar you are. I never would say such a thing.  You can't be trusted, SM.  

The statements are true. You say lies yet your own words speaks for you, Witness. Passover, Hezekiah vs the Assyrians, New Ageism, The Church of which Jesus entrusted, etc. Therefore, you were called out for ignoring your own words, and that was just part of what you said, as is your justifications, which are, indefensible.

As for the topic I linked, you strongly went against God's order, and you can be quoted in regards to that when you justified the change in what Apostle Paul himself said, also seen below, as is you claiming other things.

In the gospel preaching work, no one is going to take that kind of teaching or take without refutation.

That being said, the below aren't lies as you claim, as is your twisting of the judges of Israel.

One is deemed a lair if there is no evidence, or claim, thus be unproved/false. If there is ample evidence against you, you saying it is a lie makes you the lair. Like I said, this is just 2 examples out of a dozen, i.e. you saying claiming in that disccusion that Mary, the mother of Christ was called a Prophetess in Scripture (New Testament), but nowhere in the Bible is that even mentioned or seen. or convincing others one of your ideology to assume Chloe lead the church in Corinth.

Say something is lies, and I merely bring evidence. Ignore your own words as you always do, I bring even more evidence.

 

It is both sad and tragic, you cannot see your own error, as is your belief in conspiracy, to which you made claim to.

So tell me, if they are lies, why does the below, your words, say otherwise?

[Witness]

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The statements are true. You say lies yet your own words speaks for you, Witness.

Look, as I have said before numerous times,  you have a different view entirely than I do.  If you feel that I am in the wrong and you are in the right, so be it.  You will continue promoting your belief and I will continue concentrating on my belief.  I will continue to concentrate on getting the word out to “my people”, to leave the Wt. (Rev 18:4-8)  And, I don’t take back any of my words you posted here.

But, there is one thing you stated.

Firstly, you said, “No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.”

And then you brought up an old comment of yours which for some reason has just suddenly disappeared!

“1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God’s messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.”

You are saying that God has his own personal messenger that destroys. Is this a righteous angel?  So, the God of life keeps at his side an angel specifically to destroy?

1 Cor 10:6-10 -

⁶ Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. ⁷ Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.”^[a] 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. ⁹ We should not test Christ,^[b] as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. ¹⁰ And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

The destroying angel – “ Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.”

“destroyer” - ὀλοθρευτής olothreutḗs, ol-oth-ryoo-tace'; from G3645; a ruiner, i.e. (specially), a venomous serpent:—destroyer.

Ruiner

venomous serpent

Who is the serpent in the Bible?  You know. 

Your statement that in this scripture, God has His own personal destroying messenger is the very thing that you blamed me for - “No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.”

When God removes his protection, the god of this world steps in...to destroy.  1 John 5:19

 

[Space Merchant]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Look, as I have said before numerous times,  you have a different view entirely than I do.  If you feel that I am in the wrong and you are in the right, so be it.  You will continue promoting your belief and I will continue concentrating on my belief.  I will continue to concentrate on getting the word out to “my people”, to leave the Wt. (Rev 18:4-8)  And, I don’t take back any of my words you posted here.

But these are things you said, Witness - your words. No one assumes two separate creations become one in the same, when the Bible says otherwise. How the church was structured has never changed, hence the keys given to the apostles, but the information you provided in the thread said otherwise.

This isn't about promoting a belief, this is about adhering to 2 Timothy 3:16.

• God's order has never changed, so you saying otherwise is incorrect.
• The Bible says the chosen will have new bodies, spiritual ones. You saying the chosen becoming a hybrid of human and angel is incorrected, granted spirit beings and humans are separate creations.
• Nowhere in the Old Testament does it show leaders of churches, you using Deborah, a Judge, in order to justify a church existed in ancient Israel around that time concerning leaders, was very wrong.
• Both you and @Srecko Sostartried to convince me that Chloe was a leader of a Christian Church Congregation in Corinth, which turns out to be false because nowhere in the Bible does it even suggest that.
• You claimed that in Scripture, Mary was called a prophet specially, however, nowhere in the Bible we see that mentioned by word.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Firstly, you said, “No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.”

And that statement is indeed true.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

You are saying that God has his own personal messenger that destroys. Is this a righteous angel?  So, the God of life keeps at his side an angel specifically to destroy?

God does have that. The passage in Exodus tells you this clearly.

The events of Sodom and Gomorrah tells you this clearly.

That transpired during the days of King Hezekiah was mentioned clearly, this messenger, the angel of death called in some translations, is a messenger of God.

Just because you see Destroyer (Destroying Angel) mentioned it doesn't automatically mean Satan the Devil. Concerning Destroyer, a man, group or even spirit beings are called that, Satan even, but everywhere the root word is used doesn't negate to the Devil all the time.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

1 Cor 10:6-10 -

You're using other passages and verses to dodge what you were refuted on concerning Isaiah, Exodus, etc. You were already told in that same old thread what this verse entails.

You may not like it, but that passage is a reference to Numbers 14:1-4, 36, 37, 16:41-49, and 17:5, doesn't really have anything to do with Satan, the focus was more on specific Israelites, notable ones such as Korah, even prior concerning the actions of a few Israelite Spies who gave bad report who inspected the land of Canaan, in addition, they prompted the idea of a new leader to replace Moses the Levite.

Soon after people began to murmur about Korah, as well as other Israelites who are like him, Dathan, and Abiram, and these two were on Korah's side. The murmuring resulted in ill assumptions and complaining.

Long story short - The God of Israel responded resulting in 14,700 Israelites being punished, thus losing their lives in the wilderness, hence verses 41 and 49, Korah was among them. We see in verse 17:5 that God regarded such murmuring against his people, mainly those acting out in Shaliah, as being against him, in a sense, this was a personal issue.

Going back to 1 Corinthians 10:6-10, Apostle Paul warning listeners about becoming murmurers against  God's chosen ones as is those who hold office.

Again, this has nothing to do with Satan, granted, we can see in the references Satan had no involvement with sinning Israelites punished by God by means of a messenger.

For a former Jehovah's Witness, I don't see how you keep ignoring references despite the fact you were told by many here on a few occasions. Here we see you attempting to once again equate Satan with the events of the Israelites.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

¹⁰ And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

The destroying angel – “ Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.”

“destroyer” - ὀλοθρευτής olothreutḗs, ol-oth-ryoo-tace'; from G3645; a ruiner, i.e. (specially), a venomous serpent:—destroyer.

G#3645 ὀλοθρεύω [olothreuō] isn't the same as G#3644 ὀλοθρευτής [olothreutés], for 3644 was the focus in the other responses. Again you are mixing Strong's together to justify yourself and yet you fail. Moreover, for G#3645, the Hebrew usage of the term, H#7451. רָע (ra'), was used for one of God's angels, not Satan, therefore, your use of the verse in Psalms from your other response was wrong.

Psalm 78:49 - He let loose on them his burning anger, wrath, indignation, and distress, a company of destroying angels.

Angels is plural. The reason? The marginal references shows us the reason as to why.

You stated before that this verse somehow equated to Satan the Devil, however, the reality is, the references (from the verse and the passage it is in this passage Ps. 78:43-51 - "outline - Tell the Coming Generation") informs us that these destroying angels were in connection with the 10 Plagues that took place in Egypt. God himself used angels to act on his behalf, the very reason why Shaliah principle was used here (even mentioned which you ignored, granted how serious the Hebraic term is).

Since you have forgotten, the 10 plagues were:

 

• 1. Turning water to blood: Ex. 7:14–24
• 2. Frogs: Ex. 7:25–8:11/15
• 3. Lice or gnats: Ex. 8:12–15/8:16–19
• 4. Wild animals or flies: Ex. 8:16–28/8:20–32
• 5. Pestilence of livestock: Ex. 9:1–7
• 6. Boils: Ex. 9:8–12
• 7. Thunderstorm of hail and fire: Ex. 9:13–35
• 8. Locusts: Ex. 10:1–20
• 9. Darkness for three days: Ex. 10:21–29
• 10. Death of firstborn: Ex. 11:1–12:36

Again - [The] Destroying angel is also commonly referred to as the angel of death. On numerous occasions, God used angelic beings, his messengers, to bring judgment to sinners in ancient times. The Bible’s mentions of a destroying angel(s) are references to a heavenly being or beings that came to destroy those under God’s judgment.

The below statements also shows you are incorrect:

Anyways that passage in 1 Corinthians ahs nothing to do with the Devil.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Ruiner

venomous serpent

Who is the serpent in the Bible?  You know. 

Satan is referred to as a serpent, however, the verse in question, 1 Corinthians 10:10, concerning murmuring, references Numbers 21:4-9.

Serpents or Snakes, plural, hence your quotation

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

We should not test Christ,^[b] as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 

The Bronze Serpent

Numbers 21:

• [4] From Mount Hor they set out by the way to the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom. And the people became impatient on the way.

 

• [5] And the people spoke against God and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this worthless food.”

 

• [6] Then the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.

 

• [7] And the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you. Pray to the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

 

• [8] And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.”

 

• [9] So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.

The reference for 1 Corinthians 10:9-10 has nothing to do with Satan.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

“1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God’s messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.”

This is true so what is the problem? The references do not say anything other than that.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Your statement that in this scripture, God has His own personal destroying messenger is the very thing that you blamed me for

You are being called out for assuming that every instance of Destroyer automatically means Satan being involved. You are the one whos aid these things, hence why I quoted you, you even stated in regards to Exodus, Satan took action, likewise with the Hezekiah vs. the Assyrians.

Example, even by notation, one can see the Hermeneutics of Scripture, it's truth:

 

Now, here is your own words

0

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.”

Of course, this is why no one is going to believe Satan somehow had any involvement with the last plague. This is why the facts outweighs your exegesis.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

When God removes his protection, the god of this world steps in...to destroy.  1 John 5:19

Why would Satan have any involvement with the last plague? Let alone deal with murmuring Israelites and lying spies?

1 John 5:19 tells us Satan is the ruler of this world, however, the focus is concerning the days of Natural Israel, which you made some comments that are blasphemous in all sense.

Lastly, Satan is never under Shaliah Principle, let alone called LORD in the Old Testament concerning that Jewish term.

That being said, we you were told many times, pay attention to marginal references, you always use Gateway, yet you ignore them, even the outline, purposely because you are attempting to spout your own exegesis, which at times deviate from Scripture. And stop mixing Strong's, you clearly do not know them that well, so trying to mix Strong's to someone who adhere to Textual Criticism, Hermeneutics and Concordances, you'll be called out for it.

You sound just like the girl I debated for a few days now concerning or Mainstream Christian view on some matters, very identical, and very problematic.