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The 144k and the GB...gnostics?


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On 9/8/2021 at 11:46 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

These are things I know nothing about. I wouldn’t even be able to list a gnostic faith if asked.

There is a lot in regards to them that is somewhat confusing and contradicting. Even centuries ago, Bishops took issue with them, namely Irenaeus.

I brought this up before to a Trinitarian who I debated with concerning who is the Christ

On 1/24/2018 at 7:59 AM, Space Merchant said:

Against Heresies

In his work, Against Heresies, it is recognized that he was writing against Gnostic like groups of various kinds, who had turned away from the teachings Orthodox Christian Church.

Irenaeus claims against them were that they did not follow the teachings handed down by the Apostles and the scriptures, resulting in many groups, Sects, with bizarre beliefs. They use scriptures used by Christians, however, Irenaeus wasn’t writing against men who have heretical views that sound somewhat Christian. These are extreme heretical movements that claim to have the true knowledge of Christianity by taking in numerous concepts with Christian belief. He is not debating his points against other Christians who have went astray, but men who are completely distorting Christian beliefs and merging them with various forms of Gnostic-Platonic philosophy and or that of non Judeo-Christian religious beliefs, as a means of forming their own unique religions.

This work of Irenaeus is very important to a solid understanding of the identity of God for two reasons.

First, Irenaeus is defending the apostolic traditions of the church. Second, the Gnostics preached other gods and Irenaeus must argue, even considering it a Christian heresy, for Irenaeus knew who the true identity of the One and Only Christian God and will do anything it takes to defend this truth.


On 9/8/2021 at 11:46 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

What Mediterranean rooted faith are we referring to? Christianity?

Regarding Gnosticism it is a Christian view that isn't aligned with the core teachings, despite the fact some Gnostics believe that it does, namely Valentinus, a theologian of Gnosticism, who saw the beliefs being equal to that of Christianity.

Those who hold faith in the Gnostic view and adhere to its writings surged, resulting in them getting tangled with Christians in that time, this includes some Christian groups in the Mediterranean world, however until mid-late 2nd century, the Fathers of the early Church and or Bishops denounced them as heresy, which goes with what Irenaeus of Lyons had said about Gnosticism in his works. Others also destroyed some of their works, so unlike the Bishops, such ones took it to an extreme; cannot sleep at night knowing that written works of Gnosticism existed, they had to burn it.

Gnostics today believe they're view equates toc ore teachings, however, they are among the many misguided Christians today.

In short, after the Apostles died, things complicated up until and after the councils.

On 9/8/2021 at 11:46 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

That’s what I’m talkin about. How anyone can swallow that stuff I’ll never know.

When you debate Mainstream Christians and Trinitarians for years, their response is always the same. Other times they can be deceptive and deviate from things, Bible wise.

To this day I still keep getting challenged by a UK woman who goes by the name Princess_Sherly, right now, in her words Isaiah 9:6, which confirms Jesus is GOD, you saying it doesn't mean that is you lying in the face of God. REPENT!

2 years ago there was a huge debate on God sending angels to take action, be it to speak a message, or deal with enemies of God's people. The open debate which she started at the time consisted of Unitarians, Jews, Muslims, and islanders who were against the Trinity, there was one JW who was in the debate as well, I believe his name was John Bee. She stated the angels were the Trinity. She pointed out The Trinity were the 3 men in Genesis who later destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, which is incorrect because we know the 3 men to be Angels, for God himself is not a man, the Bible even says this. In regards to the others there, she stated YHWH didn't mean Yahweh or Jehovah, it means Jesus, and she got demolished by everyone for saying that, and of course, the Muslims were clowning around because of that.

But she kept insisting. She later appeared in another debate video regarding a JW vs a Trinitarian, something of which I alluded to in my debate with @Cos regarding that Jesus is God's Son, not God himself.

That being said, this is why when debaters say someone can't debate, mainly if the exegesis is null or reasoning, those who step into the ring often make a fool of themselves, and when correct, they still abide by what is wrong, in turn, become road runners.

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Bolding WT publications such as this one, do you imagine you have uncovered some dark mystical “gnostic” secret? Or is this not the way knowledge of anything is acquired? If you want to be an electric

So then what you are saying is that it is your purpose in life to piss on something without offering anything better—to take away but not give. Isn’t that sort of a pathetic occupation for a grown man

Or, if you are the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org, then you spend your time playing with numbers and dates to pretend you know more than other people do. 

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On 9/10/2021 at 7:06 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Well the Watchtower Leaders have been trying to move Armageddon since the late 1800's but it hasn't worked. 


An exercise in futility.

"Let him not trust in futile things, deceiving himself, For futility will be his reward."  Job 15:31

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