The 144k and the GB...gnostics?

[xero]

20 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I have to agree that this does make sense. Though I would think there are cases where people have a right to have an attitude if they've been incorrectly dealt with.  I must admit that the Elders, in more than one congregation, were 'on my back' about some things, but I was never D/fed. 

Please be balanced enough to accept that some of us leave because of the immorality within the JW Org. I make it clear that I left because of the CSA earthwide in the Org, and because of the dishonest way it was being dealt with.  I felt that the Org was not a safe place to invite families into. I have since found other reasons not to return, but i have not gone looking for an alternative 'Christian' way, nor have I turned my back on God or Christ. Please think again on those last few words of your sentence above. Who was that tolerated pedophile Elders and M/s in congregations of JWs ? 

This is now an important issue to me. I could not hand out Watchtower magazines or books from the GB / Org if I did not agree with the things written inside them. 

 

I'd love to see that in a Bible study. Telling a student to read a paragraph from the book, and then saying, 'well actually you don't have to believe that because it's only what the GB write. it might not be true'  

I do get that some people hold the organization responsible for whatever was going on w/CSA or other stuff and they leave their local congregation because they feel that the local congregation should have risen up against the main organization. 

I just know that locally, where I am and where I've been, things like this didn't happen on my watch and I'll have to be frank about it when I say that just like people who are privy to materials presented to them in a grand jury, I haven't been presented with information which damns the organization as others imagine it has (am I responsible for everything others do?)

I suspect many have never read the hebrew scriptures and been honest w/themselves as to how they would have handled the crappy behavior of many Jehovah was using. They imagine they would have stayed, but we don't know. Face it ten tribes split w/Judah and Benjamin remaining when Solomon and his son turned into jerks. That didn't ultimately go well w/them.

Sure today you have people who are pretty much into what I call idolatrous worship of the GB, but these people are the same kinds you see in the world who want to push a theocratic sharia onto everyone, but these ultimately get dealt with because that's not in line w/Jehovah's spirit and I see that these get tripped up.

Some who thought I was out of control have gotten DF'ed for various things after they were heavy on others. I believe you just deal w/the discipline you get, try not to stir things up, realize there are opinionated people who want to push their way onto others, but you just keep following scripture and nodding your head when you get what you feel is "great scripture, brother! just doesn't apply to me here, but thanks so much for giving me the nudge" from anyone who feels you need some counsel.

As to telling people the truth about the organization, I'd just explain why I'm where I am and why I'm doing what I'm doing. People will judge according to how they want to judge. It doesn't matter to me if they listen or don't listen. At this point I feel it's all a spiritual exercise that I'm benefitting from and if I get potshots taken at me, fine, take them. Granted I don't go out of my way to antagonize anyone outside or inside, but I never tell people to believe anything I don't and can't back up with scripture alone.

Being frank w/people is easy, feels good and when you get bothered occasionally by someone who thinks you're going astray by not insisting that people believe everything they read in the latest publication you just deal with it. You do more good long term in my view by staying and keeping your cool and taking punches and keeping your integrity with your own conscience than leaving, but I DO understand why some have left and so do many who haven't.

[Witness]

16 minutes ago, xero said:

try not to stir things up,

Deal with the discipline of people who are not inspired, but act as if they are on par with the apostles?

No, never.  The point is to defend truth, not those who exalt themselves and their doctrine, over Truth in Jesus Christ.  We are to make a noise when we know that truth is not being upheld.  (Eph 5:11)

Are we to defend men or the Father and the Son?

"Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ."  Gal 1:10

We can't please God or Christ and please men who expect us to accept their false teachings.  

What is the point of Armageddon if not to exalt the Father and the Son in Truth, through our testimony?   Why does "Michael" stand up in the last days if not to defend the Father in Truth? (Acts 3:20,21; 2 Thess 1:6-10; Dan 12:1) 

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"  Gal 1:6-9

[xero]

27 minutes ago, Witness said:

Deal with the discipline of people who are not inspired, but act as if they are on par with the apostles?

No, never.  The point is to defend truth, not those who exalt themselves and their doctrine, over Truth in Jesus Christ.  We are to make a noise when we know that truth is not being upheld.  (Eph 5:11)

Are we to defend men or the Father and the Son?

"Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ."  Gal 1:10

We can't please God or Christ and please men who expect us to accept their false teachings.  

What is the point of Armageddon if not to exalt the Father and the Son in Truth, through our testimony?   Why does "Michael" stand up in the last days if not to defend the Father in Truth? (Acts 3:20,21; 2 Thess 1:6-10; Dan 12:1) 

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"  Gal 1:6-9

Point is that none of the people complaining about the GB actually are in their congregation and it's a waste of time chasing real or imagined deficiencies of other people you don't know when you just look in the mirror and realize you have your own homework to do.

[Witness]

23 minutes ago, xero said:

Point is that none of the people complaining about the GB actually are in their congregation and it's a waste of time chasing real or imagined deficiencies of other people you don't know when you just look in the mirror and realize you have your own homework to do.

What did the apostles do?  What was their homework?

[xero]

3 minutes ago, Witness said:

What did the apostles do?  What was their homework?

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/04b1b958-20be-4605-a376-c3e8fe72e571

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, xero said:

I do get that some people hold the organization responsible for whatever was going on w/CSA or other stuff and they leave their local congregation because they feel that the local congregation should have risen up against the main organization. 

I never expected my local congregation to do anything. I just did what I felt was right for me to do. 

I must admit that I thought a lot of others earthwide would also have left the JW Org at the time. Maybe they did and i never found out. 

[xero]

29 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I never expected my local congregation to do anything. I just did what I felt was right for me to do. 

I must admit that I thought a lot of others earthwide would also have left the JW Org at the time. Maybe they did and i never found out. 

Well it's clear that a lot have processed whatever they're processed and decided that staying was better than leaving. Look at all the Catholics who are still Catholics after the chronic and ongoing mess of pedo-priests. 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, xero said:

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/04b1b958-20be-4605-a376-c3e8fe72e571

 

What does a "witness" for God witness about? Other things to fill out their day instead of their testimony for truth?  

 By the way, "witness" in Greek means "martyr".  We don't know how many anointed and others were "killed" by men (who act as "kings") in judicial committees for the last several decades for their "witness" to truth in God's word.  Are those df'd, the apostates, or were they exposing their apostate "governors"?  

Why did they become martyrs like the apostles with the early anointed and believers in Christ?  

They filled their day as much as possible, with their testimony of truth.  Rev 11:3,7; 13:5-7,15; 12:11

“You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. ("congregations")  On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them.  And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.  Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit."  Mark 13:9-11

"They will put you out of the synagogue ("congregation"); in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God."  John 16:2

Do you see?  This is the direction of the end time preaching work - to "Israel", the anointed and those with them.  Matt 10: 23  To the "apostates" that have dominion over the anointed and all, who remain captive to empty philosophy.  (Col 2:8)

"Of course, we are living in the world, but we do not wage war in a world-like way. For the weapons of our warfare are not those of the world. Instead, they have the power of God to demolish fortresses. We tear down arguments  and every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive in order to obey the Messiah."  1 Cor 10:3-5

What is the "fortress" of protection for JWs?

And just as a child seeks his parents’ protection when a storm rages, we seek protection in Jehovah’s organization when, like a thunderstorm, the problems of this world strike us. wt 11/4/15 pp 3-5

Sounds like idol worship, doesn't it.  Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

On 9/1/2021 at 6:40 PM, xero said:

And I don't teach any of those things as facts, but as interpretations.

I'd love to see that in a Bible study. Telling a student to read a paragraph from the book, and then saying, 'well actually you don't have to believe that because it's only what the GB write. it might not be true'

Xero reminds me, with this statement of his, of two elders who told me personally after I asked them about a similar thing, that they, from the podium, say only what the literature says even though they are not personally convinced that it is true. And another thing, they (two elders) claim that they do not mention controversial things or explain them when preaching.
Do such elders really have face and say they represent, stand for the truth? 

[xero]

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Xero reminds me, with this statement of his, of two elders who told me personally after I asked them about a similar thing, that they, from the podium, say only what the literature says even though they are not personally convinced that it is true. And another thing, they (two elders) claim that they do not mention controversial things or explain them when preaching.
Do such elders really have face and say they represent, stand for the truth? 

You make it sound like the literature has zero scriptural support. It's commentary on scripture. You might not agree with the application, but it's not as if it's just completely made up. I don't dwell on the extreme interpretations and I don't think too many do. 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, xero said:

You make it sound like the literature has zero scriptural support. It's commentary on scripture. You might not agree with the application, but it's not as if it's just completely made up. I don't dwell on the extreme interpretations and I don't think too many do. 

Every written change of previous interpretation in the WTJWorg literature is proof that what I have commented on is not an echo of empty words. Your own publications produce "sound", and make it to sound in both ways. To looks like have "scriptural support" and to looks like have "non-scriptural support".

[xero]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Every written change of previous interpretation in the WTJWorg literature is proof that what I have commented on is not an echo of empty words. Your own publications produce "sound", and make it to sound in both ways. To looks like have "scriptural support" and to looks like have "non-scriptural support".

I don't mean to sound critical, but you really need to reword this. It's contorting the English language in a way that's painful to read.