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The 144k and the GB...gnostics?


Matthew9969

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Bolding WT publications such as this one, do you imagine you have uncovered some dark mystical “gnostic” secret? Or is this not the way knowledge of anything is acquired? If you want to be an electric

So then what you are saying is that it is your purpose in life to piss on something without offering anything better—to take away but not give. Isn’t that sort of a pathetic occupation for a grown man

Or, if you are the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org, then you spend your time playing with numbers and dates to pretend you know more than other people do. 

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5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, among all Anti-Trinitarian faiths, Gnostics have hatred for JWs, especially in the EU.

These are things I know nothing about. I wouldn’t even be able to list a gnostic faith if asked.

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

this seems to be the case concerning this Mediterranean rooted faith in question.

What Mediterranean rooted faith are we referring to? Christianity?

3 hours ago, xero said:

I despise the trinity. I read a lot of apologetic works and I have to suffer through the sections where they genuflect to the trinity.

That’s what I’m talkin about. How anyone can swallow that stuff I’ll never know.

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On 9/8/2021 at 9:59 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

They’re not gnostic. They have no special secret source of knowledge. However, the Bible itself speaks to them in a way in does not speak to most. That’s not gnostic, but it leans a little that way.

Ha Ha :)  You got the first bit right for sure. BUT neither God/Christ nor the Bible 'speaks' to the GB in a special way.

They have proven that by their many 'mistakes' and false promises. Come on Tom admit it. The GB have nothing except a lot of puffed up pride and self serving bragging. They even stand on top of the Anointed ones and tell those Anointed ones not to meet together. 

Does the Bible tell your GB to order the Body of Christ not to be as one ? Hypocrisy  

 

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19 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They’re not gnostic. They have no special secret source of knowledge. However, the Bible itself speaks to them in a way in does not speak to most. That’s not gnostic, but it leans a little that way.

Essentially, knowledge means familiarity with facts acquired by personal experience, observation, or study.......Source of Knowledge. Jehovah is actually the basic Source of knowledge. Life, of course, is from him and life is essential for one’s having any knowledge. (Ps 36:9; Ac 17:25, 28) Furthermore, God created all things, so human knowledge is based on a study of God’s handiwork. (Re 4:11; Ps 19:1, 2) God also inspired his written Word, from which man can learn the divine will and purposes. (2Ti 3:16, 17) Thus the focal point of all true knowledge is Jehovah, and a person seeking it ought to have a fear of God that makes him careful not to incur Jehovah’s displeasure. Such fear is the beginning of knowledge. ................Unless a person exercises faith in Jesus Christ as God’s Son, he cannot grasp the real meaning of the Scriptures and see how God’s purposes are working out in harmony with what He has foretold. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002643

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Unless a person exercises faith in Jesus Christ as God’s Son, he cannot grasp the real meaning of the Scriptures

That's a real tough one for a people who put their faith in the GB, faith in the elders to lead them,  faith in their doctrines, and faith in the organization.  How far can one's spiritual faith stretch, before nothing is left to "exercise" toward Jesus Christ and the Father?

Their term, "exercise faith" sounds a little mechanical, doesn't it?  It sounds like work, and for JWs, it is almost impossible "exercising faith" toward Jesus Christ. It appears to be a mental exercise only,  that really cannot reach the heart.  If it did, they would listen to what the scriptures are telling them, and they would leave the organization.  Their heart would motivate them to do what Jesus tells them.

Their Bible uses this term "exercise faith" in John 3:18; 14:1; 2 Cor 4:13; John 7:5; 16:9; Rom 10:4,10; Mark 5:36; John 11:26; 6:29; 1 Pet 2:6; John 6:40; 1:12; 11:25; Gal 3:22; Rom 10:9...and the list goes on.

The ESV, NKJV, NIV, LEB and I'm sure many more,  use "believe/s", which  indicates action that can reach the heart.  

 

 

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9 hours ago, Witness said:

exercise faith

..... something performed or practiced in order to develop, improve, or display a specific capability or skill

....regular or repeated use of a faculty or bodily organ

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exercise

To believe or to show faith, to show trust .... is what Jesus has rewarded many times. He performed miracles on people who showed faith, not faith that developed after months or years of exercise, but faith as the current state of mind and heart. 

Truly I say to you that whoever tells this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but has faith that what he says is going to happen, he will have it happen. Mk 11:23 nwt

Or, people in WTJWorg have years of training how to move mountain? :) 

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34 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Truly I say to you that whoever tells this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but has faith that what he says is going to happen, he will have it happen. Mk 11:23 nwt

Or, people in WTJWorg have years of training how to move mountain? :) 

At the Daisy Hill Puppy Farm, in the Tennessee Valley, the Congregation had an Elder there whose garden was at the base of the mountain, and unless the sun was directly overhead, not much light would get to the vegetables.

He was a fine, theocratic Brother, and took as literal the Scripture at Mark 11:23 about the mountain being relocated, and prayed constantly that God would remove this mountain that shaded his garden most of the day.

After having casually prayed for the mountain to be moved many times, late one night he really "poured it on", with prayer and supplication, almost praying himself into a coma, beseeching God that in the morning, that cursed mountain would no longer be keeping his garden from growing.

Finally, he got to sleep, and when he woke up, the first thing he did was look out the bedroom window to see if that awful mountain was still there.

The mountain was still there.

He turned away in disgust at that mountain, and muttered to himself, "It figures!".

The moral of the story is this: There is a difference between faith in God doing something for you, and faith that something can be done.

.... perhaps at an earlier time in history people could work with quantum probabilities, where absolute faith equaled telekinesis.

(Re-read the Scripture in Mark again to see what it is NOT saying...)

.... after all ... to this very day we still do not know how the Great Pyramids of Egypt were constructed.

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26 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

At the Daisy Hill Puppy Farm, in the Tennessee Valley, the Congregation had an Elder there whose garden was at the base of the mountain, and unless the sun was directly overhead, not much light would get to the vegetables.

He was a fine, theocratic Brother, and took as literal the Scripture at Mark 11:23 about the mountain being relocated, and prayed constantly that God would remove this mountain that shaded his garden most of the day.

After having casually prayed for the mountain to be moved many times, late one night he really "poured it on", with prayer and supplication, almost praying himself into a coma, beseeching God that in the morning, that cursed mountain would no longer be keeping his garden from growing.

Finally, he got to sleep, and when he woke up, the first thing he did was look out the bedroom window to see if that awful mountain was still there.

The mountain was still there.

He turned away in disgust at that mountain, and muttered to himself, "It figures!".

The moral of the story is this: There is a difference between faith in God doing something for you, and faith that something can be done.

.... perhaps at an earlier time in history people could work with quantum probabilities, where absolute faith equaled telekinesis.

(Re-read the Scripture in Mark again to see what it is NOT saying...)

.... after all ... to this very day we still do not know how the Great Pyramids of Egypt were constructed.

https://www.dailygrail.com/2016/11/how-was-the-great-pyramid-built-these-notches-where-its-faces-meet-may-be-evidence-for-an-internal-ramp/

Of course no science can be done on the past - only the present. Age of the universe, the earth all these things are correlations at best with other known entities. It's "forensic science", but that's not the same "science" as designing a more efficient combustion engine or longer-lasting battery. The former "science" does it's best at creating a believable "just-so story", the latter has no need of stories as the engine or battery designed works to the specs or they don't.

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1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

after all ... to this very day we still do not know how the Great Pyramids of Egypt were constructed.

They were mountains in my back yard. I was always tripping over them, I had to weed whack around the base, the local teenagers would congregate on the dark side to smoke pot, and they were a general eyesore.

I prayed and prayed that they be moved. I don’t care where you put them, I said, I just want them gone. Next day I looked out the window and they were nowhere to be seen.

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