Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

We all sin Mr Rando. But those who give themselves authority should be more careful before they deliberately sin. 

We all sin - some sin to the extent where it is human error and others to the extent where they become apostates.  Some do not agree and some become direct opposers.  Some criticize and others appoint themselves as self-righteous judges...... and what does the bible show when you judge?   You have put yourself in the place of GOD!

Read what James has to say about this.  

[Matthew9969]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

We all sin - some sin to the extent where it is human error and others to the extent where they become apostates.  Some do not agree and some become direct opposers.  Some criticize and others appoint themselves as self-righteous judges...... and what does the bible show when you judge?   You have put yourself in the place of GOD!

Read what James has to say about this.  

So not agreeing with the governing body is a sin worthy of death?

[Arauna]

13 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

not agreeing with the governing body is a sin worthy of deat

That is not what I said..... so twisting someones words makes you worthy of ..... 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

16 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

i have always wonder why if the garden of eden was a pure sinless place ,where no sin was permitted,ie it was protected from sin ,that sin [satan]in the form of some type of snake ,which is descibed as a wild animal was permitted to enter such a place in the first place,apart from the issue of the test of those rebels/the test was just a tree which had no sin ?

Sin didn't exist before the devil tempted Eve.  The angel that became the devil must have been the first to commit sin. 

The snake would have been a harmless animal, as would all animals.  Adam had control over them all. 

Berean Study Bible
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

pure sinless place ,where no sin was permitted,ie it was protected from sin ,that sin [satan

Eden was not protected from sin. They both had free choice. 

[BroRando]

1 hour ago, Peter Carroll said:

thanks

from those comments,the understanding would be that,

eden was then  not under any form of protection so sin could have occured at anytime ,unless the first pair had passed the simple test asked of them,then some form of protection from sin would have been  put in place ,this would have been the result seen in the outcome of graduating from the school of obedience,and so, it was easy for satan to enter such a place that had no protection over it ... well that was asking for trouble ... there must have been alot of trust around then

The cherub that was covering in the garden of Eden was on assignment. He turned traitor and became a slanderer. 

 

^{Ezekiel 28:12} “Son of man, sing a dirge* concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:“You were the model of perfection,*Full of wisdomi and perfect in beauty.j¹³  You were in Eʹden, the garden of God. You were adorned with every precious stone—Ruby, topaz, and jasper; chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise,k and emerald;And their settings and mountings were made of gold.They were prepared on the day you were created.¹⁴  I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.You were on the holy mountain of God,l and you walked about among fiery stones.¹⁵  You were faultless in your ways from the day you were createdUntil unrighteousness was found in you.m¹⁶  Because of your abundant trade,nYou became filled with violence, and you began to sin.oSo I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,pO covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.¹⁷  Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.qYou corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.rI will throw you down to the earth.sI will make you a spectacle before kings.¹⁸  Because of your great guilt and your dishonest trading, you have profaned your sanctuaries.I will cause a fire to break out in your midst, and it will consume you.tI will reduce you to ashes on the earth before all those looking at you.¹⁹  All who knew you among the peoples will stare at you in amazement.uYour end will be sudden and terrible, And you will cease to exist for all time.”’”

[Witness]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:42 PM, BroRando said:

For the next 1,500 years, Satan and his angels had their eyes on that tree of life with no avail.

Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:2;6:44,45; Rev 2:7; Ps 1:3; Rev 22:2,14)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A17%2C20%3B+John+6%3A57%2C58%2C63%3B17%3A2%3B6%3A44%2C45%3B+Rev+2%3A7%3B+Ps+1%3A3%3B+Rev+22%3A2%2C14&version=NIV

The choice was given to Adam and Eve which "tree" to eat from, with the consequences for choosing the lies of Satan, instead of the "tree" of truth in the Word of God.  John 1:1  We also have that choice.  2 Thess 2:9,10

Two Trees - Past and Present

[BroRando]

7 minutes ago, Witness said:

Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:2;6:44,45; Rev 2:7; Ps 1:3; Rev 22:2,14)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A17%2C20%3B+John+6%3A57%2C58%2C63%3B17%3A2%3B6%3A44%2C45%3B+Rev+2%3A7%3B+Ps+1%3A3%3B+Rev+22%3A2%2C14&version=NIV

The choice was given to Adam and Eve which "tree" to eat from, with the consequences for choosing the lies of Satan, instead of the "tree" of truth in the Word of God.  John 1:1  We also have that choice.  2 Thess 2:9,10

Two Trees - Past and Present

Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like One of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” (Genesis 3:22) 

So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.  (Genesis 3:24)

I don't think the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword was actually guarding the way to Jesus in the garden of Eden for 1,500 years.

[Witness]

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

for 1,500 years.

Another "set" time?

 

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.  (Genesis 3:24)

This is judgment, Adam and Eve faced judgment.  The "flaming blade of a sword" is the fire of God's Word.  "Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?"  Jer 23:29

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."  Heb 4:12

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:05 PM, Arauna said:

Eden was not protected from sin. They both had free choice. 

 

14 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

from those comments,the understanding would be that,

eden was then  not under any form of protection so sin could have occured at anytime ,unless the first pair had passed the simple test

 

9 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

Human sin and imperfection were, of course, preceded by sin and imperfection in the spirit realm,

According to these explanations, no one and nothing, as person and as place, neither in heaven nor on earth, is "protected" from sin.

Certainly, it would be good, for someone to tell us, what that would mean at all: To be protected from sin?

To be protected as perfect individual/place ? .., and to be protected as imperfect individual/place ?  

[Arauna]

13 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

den was then  not under any form of protection so sin could have occurred at anytime

We are not protected from sin and neither was Jesus - We obey Jehovah by choice... we are not robots or automatons.  Adam made a choice not to obey Jehovah.  Jesus made a choice in every situation he was in - to obey Jehovah. Through one act of disobedience adam broight sin and though the act of ultimate obedience Jesus gave life. (Romans)

Yes the cherub was anointed for the job to protect Adam.  Anointed means he had Jehovah's approval when he was appointed . He could have given moral and physical protection BUT the choice was still Adam's. The tree of good and bad indicates that Adam had to choose to obey Jehovah's right and wrong (morals)himself.  When Satan grew haughty and wanted the worship for himself he turned against God and abused his position of trust. 

Just like cherubs were often present to protect the nation of Israel - for example when they were rebuilding the temple - I am sure that angels will be there to protect us also in the new system.

In the new system under the "tent" of protection of Jehovah we will also have protection.   Jehovah uses his angels for this important job. They will also be messengers and assist his people as they are doing now with the preaching work.

They are at present 'holding back the winds' of total anarchy and destruction until the anointed are sealed and the great crowd has come out of all mankind. 

[Arauna]

10 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

in the spirit realm,

This is why it is a universal issue - because a spirit son was thinking bad thoughts before he acted upon them and then enticed eve to sin - just like he enticed Jesus - who did not bite.

Jesus came down from the spirit realm and became lower than angels and in this form answered Satan by his actions.  Satan and his demons were condemned by jesus' faithful obedience to his death. He also saved imperfect men from the same fate.

Satan acted like Judas - he had unfaithful thoughts and acted upon them. James 1 : 13 - 15 applied.