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KAZAKHSTAN: Plagiarised "expert analysis", Jehovah's Witnesses to pay over 3 years' wages


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15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Lot of bad stuff coming out of that land these days, per BitterWinter. Religious curriculum being rewritten to glorify the state & whoever doesn’t comply being slowly, sometimes quickly, erased.   Sometimes I think it is like Herod with the infant boys. He doesn’t really know how to find who he’s look for. Wiping them all out is his answer.

Communism has a terrible reputation, and much of it is well deserved. There have been terrible communist regimes. They rarely did better, and often did much worse, than the regimes they were trying to replace. One of the initial ideas, of course, was that religion was all "superstition" that would get in the way of human progress. Humans make bad leaders in general, and although false religion permeates leadership in most places, at least most countries will give lip service to faith and spirituality.

It's not that I just want to speak up when claims are made that might be only partially true or even completely untrue. I read or hear 100 things a day that are probably untrue, and never bat an eyelash. When I do speak up it is usually when these types of dubious claims are leveraged as the basis to make even more grandiose claims. The more fearsome predictions are taken to a much higher level and then "cemented" with a Biblical or prophetic assurance.

That bothers me because there is a long track record of Western dishonesty about communist regimes that is appalling. Even if 95 of the last 100 negative claims in mainstream media about China are completely debunked, they continue to be repeated because they work. The most trusted news sources in the United States, for example, can be counted on to give a constant barrage of anti-China stories, and the next one, no matter what, will be believed even if most of them can be shown to have never been true.

What people will instantly and unquestionably believe about HK, Taiwan, Mongolia, Tibet, Falun Gong, and Uyghur Muslims is amazing to me.  Every year China's economy is predicted to fail. Every few days on PBS, NPR, or NYT there is fearmongering about how China will erase all the gains made by the US on climate agreements (when it's been the opposite for years now). You can always find a story about Uyghur being slaughtered by the millions.

What is amazing to me about that last one (the Uyghurs) is that every story about supposedly MILLIONS of persons always finally boils down to less than 12 interviewees, and even those 12 seem to be copies of just a couple of different stories. You'll have "Bitter Winter" people like Massimo Introvigne claim he knows how bad it is, but he also is dependent on the same few individuals. Where else in the world could a million Muslims be slaughtered and yet you can find Muslims voluntarily leaving and returning by bus to these same "concentration camps"? How is that you can find Muslims in nearby India and Pakistan who approve of China's methods of handling Muslim fanatics. And how is it that thousands of random pictures from Muslims come out of this same province through Twitter, Flickr, etc., where the Muslims in the background are seen going on with their daily lives, and there is no flood of refugees to nearby countries.

What country has sponsored and built more Muslim mosques and schools than any other country in the world? China.

President Xi speaks out regularly against the prejudice that many Han Chinese have against non-Han, including Muslims. Xi constantly points to and celebrates the diversity of the Chinese people. He personally promotes celebrations of Muslim culture and Mongolian culture. Mongolians themselves have nearly lost their traditional language, yet the government has made sure that signs in Mongolia are bilingual. The signs in Xinjiang province (where most Uyghurs live) are also in their own language.

Like Ancient Rome and Modern Russia, China only approves historically long-standing traditional religions, and does not trust new religions. In China, they are especially harsh with "new" religions whose backing and publications ultimately come from the United States. If they try to proselytize others with an anti-communist philosophy, they are going to have even more trouble. Falun Gong is rabidly (and openly) anti-communist, and many have been jailed for promoting an illegal religion. This policy has not been good at all for JWs there, and several have also been jailed for proselytizing or smuggling in the literature. Chinese Baptists and their missionaries have been jailed for the same, even though they have been around more than twice as long as JWs.

The details of investigations about Chinese policies could go on for 100's of pages. (But this is a thread about Kazakhstan, so I'll only do one or two pages.) The Chinese track record on religion is not good. But it doesn't mean that fear-mongering is correct about supposed concentration camps and organ harvesting of mass disappearances of people. More than one person in the CIA has claimed that their job was, as one put it, to make up stories and promote the idea that "communists eat babies." I don't think there is any reason to believe that such stories are still promoted in one way or another. (A recent NYT "documentary" on the Uyghurs was found to have blatantly mistranslated official Chinese documents related to the programs in Xinjiang.) It doesn't mean that terrible things don't happen in China, but such stories are intended to make it look like communism is 1,000 times worse.

The intent of that propaganda has been to make it easy for citizens of Western imperialist nations to easily accept warfare against communist nations whenever it's deemed to be useful for Western interests. Currently, terrorism is the war catalyst, but who knows when we'll need another red scare?

When I see unsubstantiated claims along this line, I sense that it is part of warmongering, even though unintentional by those who repeat the claims.

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I don't doubt your knowledge of history. Hmmm, sounds very familiar.     Rev 17 and 18, concerns God's anointed over the last 150 years, and down to today.

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8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

initial ideas, of course, was that religion was all "superstition" that would get in the way of human progress

During the French Revolution religion was viewed as superstition but with Engels and Marx it became more like  "opium".....and after Darwinism - totally " undesirable"...... words they are starting to use again. This is speech which brings genocide when certain groups of peoples are "undesirable". 

It is the atheist  nature of communism and its hate for all life not pliable to the ideology, which makes it an excellent vehicle for Satan to use to exterminate people with any form of conscience. 

This is why I have been watching the neo-communism movements for quite some time in the west and the different forms of totalitarianism in the east..... because I am sure that this is the form of government the UN and the 10 kings will use to first of all create a fear to participate in religion and then exterminate the undesirables. Communism/totalitarian regimes  always single out groups of people who need to be removed-  before the utopia will arrive. 

One has to understand the ideology and see its Satanic nature as a form of control over people. The West has been less dangerous to its OWN citizens but this is changing.  China has now called for the UN to rewrite the way platforms function...... so that people cannot get news the UN does not want you to see from other countries.

Why such a request? Is it to hide the numbers of people dying from disease, hunger, injustice and undesirables in camps? Soon the West will be doing exactly what has been trickling out of China. 

Is this now being imported in the West? Yes.  If people  cannot see what is happening in front of their eyes they are as blind as bats. Several countries already have camps called "green camps" and "humanitarian camps" . 

PEople cannot see that Satan is using a totalitarian agenda to have TOTAL control over people and will eventually force all to OBEY the system or be eliminated -  brothers will give up brothers to save their own lives..... as the bible prophesied.

Again - I look at this not from a West versus East perspective ..... but from a ONE global perspective.  Satan wants to quaratee a global "peace and security" and build a secure prison for all.  (Sieges in olden days were situations where all were in lock-down)... so the "God of fortresses" (dan 11) has started.... 

Capitalism and communism is merging into "stakeholder capitalism " for the oligarchs. Oligarchs are saying they must be "socially responsible" ha-ha ..... when  they will be ruining the environment to get rare earth metals from the sea and land. Kill billions with their gene-medicines.  (I saw the new Merck product for Covid is a gene therapy. .... normal medicines are all now messing with your Gene's and they soon will start on the 5 - 10 year olds ) 

WHY would anyone be an apologist for any of the ideologies of the different governments NOW running the earth?  

USA with its military industrial complex which deals in death-dealing drugs and weapons and overthrows all kinds of governments all over the world and hides the killing of civilians in its warfare.....  Communistic and totalitarian governments which kills its own undesirable citizens and then calls it merely propaganda when they COVER up what they do with even more death!

Deceit, lies, murder - these are what governments do to a lesser or higher degree. But soon all governments will follow UN instructions and start to eliminate their own undesirable citizens. Nuremberg laws are being broken EVERY  day. 

Either one believes Satan is a murderer or you do not. To say that it is propaganda against USA or China when its atrocities are exposed is a moral blindness or a total nativity! 

People like Assange who know how to hack and publish atrocities will soon ALL be in prison. These governments cannot tolerate citizen journalists who load up images of their atrocities which they want to keep HIDDEN.  

As a Christian- I am all for LAW - but applied to everyone equally. Total diplomatic immunity for crimes from the ruling elite is not my idea of justice for all.

 

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@Arauna, I love it that you are a thinking person who is willing to get input from a variety of non-typical, non mainstream resources. You also show yourself willing to engage in dialogue with those holding non-typical opinions without running away with your hands over your ears. You stand up for what you believe and you give your reasons.

I am very aware that I will not gain any friends or followers by being an "apologist" for China, and it will surely lower my credibility in other areas where years of reading and research has forced me to hold unpopular opinions, such as those I now hold concerning our own traditions regarding Bible chronology.

In fact, that reminds me of a perfect example that highlights why I appreciate the difference between your style and others. As you probably know I'm engaged in an off-and-on discussion on the subject of our chronology with someone else on the closed part of the forum. He is an example of nearly the opposite. When he disagrees with evidence, he merely finds a variety of ways to basically say: I disagree with you; I'm right; you're wrong; my view has all the best evidence behind it. But he never directly engages with any of the evidence.

What I'm saying is that I hope you don't take my opinions personally in any way. I hope my disagreements with your political views don't make you think you are offending me. I actually enjoy the dialogue, as you probably already suspected. I hope you haven't engaged with so many obtuse people here that you think your input is wasted on all of us.

Personally, I always agree with much of what you say. Often what I disagree with is still intriguing enough to make me want to look into it more. It may not sound like it because I don't usually respond to things I already agree with, only the things I have trouble with.

Your last post is a great example. I agree with much of it, but you also give a few lines I'm so tempted to respond to. This particular topic isn't the place, but I look forward to another topic at another time, soon.

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19 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I hope you don't take my opinions personally in any way.

No I don't.  I always try to see how things fit in with the bible. That is why I said that one cannot apologize for any governments now in place - they have truly eaten more people's lives in a beastly fashion than most previous governments ever on this earth, and in a much shorter time! 

The only thing that frustrates me are people who speak directly against God in such as blatant fashion - to their own detriment (to quote Paul).  They are acting against their own lives.  I am absolutely honest when I say anything and I sometimes come across as abrasive when I confront...... it is the South African way ....But I also say - I hope you do not take my jabs too seriously!

We all have to give an accounting of ourselves before Jehovah!  I know that my anti-human-government stance may come across as political to those in authority because they do not allow anyone to question their authority in any way.  I am not anti-authority - I am totally for law and order but not the kind that is now prevailing as pseudo-law. I cannot see any good whatsoever in all the governments now ruling and I am sure that humans will soon face total disgust, anxiety and fear for what is waiting for humankind.  It is going to be ghastly when one has children crying because there is  very little food, and parents dying from immunity disorders due to mandated medicines etc. I am sad and have even cried over my own children who are forced into certain actions which I know can cost their lives and leave their children to be orphans. 

We ain't see nothing yet!  Satan is determined......  It is his way or death!  It is only by the grace of Jehovah that we will get through this darkness!  Literal cold and darkness is waiting for North America this year and for Europe.... and the moral darkness will soon descend upon all of us......with new government mandates. Jehovah as our only light.  Those who have his spirit will be able to sustain themselves on His words!

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15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You'll have "Bitter Winter" people like Massimo Introvigne claim he knows how bad it is, but he also is dependent on the same few individuals.

Shooting the messenger is the oldest trick in the book. To be sure, sometimes they deserve to be shot. Other times…

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

always finally boils down to less than 12 interviewees, and even those 12 seem to be copies of just a couple of different stories.

I can think of another 12 who for all their efforts ultimately could not get the accurate word out.  (sorry) I also think of the diagrams of Hitler camps smuggled out by the bros only to be disbelieved by the respected sources. 

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

One of the initial ideas, of course, was that religion was all "superstition" that would get in the way of human progress. 

Have any of them gotten over that idea?

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

What country has sponsored and built more Muslim mosques and schools than any other country in the world? China.

Are they real mosques or the type that parallel the nationalized churches that had better tow the line with regard to glorifying the state?

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As you probably know I'm engaged in an off-and-on discussion on the subject of our chronology …..I am very aware that I will not gain any friends or followers by being an "apologist" for China….

“Whereas if I’m the one to do it, they’ll run their quill pens through it. He’s obnoxious and disliked, did you know that? (I hadn’t heard.)”.            1776. 

:)

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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Personally, I always agree with much of what you say. ….Your last post is a great example. I agree with much of it, but you also give a few lines

So often do various persons give comments and I agree with almost all of it. My finger hovers over that like button,  but then there will be one statement I choke on that torpedoes it all. I don’t need someone thinking, “you agree with that?”

A lot of overall very fine comments go unliked for that reason.

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41 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Shooting the messenger is the oldest trick in the book. T

I discovered that there was a regular killing of "educated" people here in Albania by the communist dictator Hoxha. I spoke to a sister who told me her father was in prison 3 times for long periods because he was Western educated. Others are still looking for family members. When I was in Armenia, I saw the photos of the Turkish genocide - it looked similar to Nazi Germany- the stacks of dead , emaciated children and parents. 

All regimes can easily do this but when it is supported by a devillish ideology then genocide is always justified - and regimes do unmentionable things.... and the messengers are told they are lying...... this is the oldest trick since Satan lied to Adam.

There were too many smoking guns coming out of China..... and visitors to China who looked suspicious or asked too many questions, they  would feel the brunt of surveillance and cameras broken.  Those visitors drinking the propaganda of the red coolaid, came away from China thinking it is a wonderful country! .... not much wiser than when they went in. Unfortunately this included journalists who were hand picked by China .... and democratic and Republican leaders who are still heavily invested in China.

I was watching China longg before it became  popular to bash China.... and I was not goofed. 20 years the falun gong were demonized and their followers abused in horrific ways. The UN was assured by China it will not happen any longer when irrefutable proof emerged of forced transplants.... and yet it was too profitable for the regime to stop. 

No - human governments are really beastlike - all of them.... but some are the T-rex. 

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6 hours ago, Arauna said:

The UN was assured by China it will not happen any longer when irrefutable proof emerged of forced transplants....

Not only did that never happen, the clams of China's atrocities against Falun Gong members was irrefutably debunked.

Although I believe what I just said, I just gave an example of the kind of thing that just wastes time in a discussion forum:

I answered the same way that a lot of people would answer, but it can just go back and forth like this unless someone is willing to point to research and/or evidence, and not just unsubstantiated claims and opinions. It must have also been about 20 years ago when I saw the Falun Gong protests in the streets of NYC during the years I worked in Manhattan, and I was fooled for quite some time by their sincere-sounding cries, and all the posters with "photographic" evidence. It didn't take long to discover that the photographic evidence was just from actors "re-enacting" claims. But I'm made doubly suspicious by watching who helps them fund-raise over this issue, and the way they have been caught "red-handed" lying about and denying their direct association with various culture performances, newspapers, Cable TV stations, along with YouTube and Twitter and Facebook spokespersons.

What I just did in that last paragraph is a bit better, but it is still just counter-claims (albeit, more specific) with no real evidence for my own view. At least someone who might be interested can now say, for example: "Hey wait a second, give me one of those examples of FG members lying about their association with FG."

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On 10/4/2021 at 3:42 AM, Arauna said:

Have you not read Revelation 17 and 18?   That the blood of the holy ones are on the hands of Christendom and the world empire of false religion -  the DOM in Christendom stands for DOMAIN - the ruling class of the Christians. Those who imposed themselves onto Christians and rule like real kings.  Not a few elders who try to correct their brothers when they lead others astray.  Those are the true oppressors of truth and have usurped Christianity and have much power to destroy lives and lead them directly to worship Satan!

I’m sorry Arauna, but you are teaching falsehoods, and yes, you are “teaching” as a woman! 

"Those who imposed themselves onto Christians and rule like real kings." 

Who would that be?

The blood of the holy ones is on the hands of those who were once under covenant with God. – the rulers and the people of Israel.  You do know that your organization states that JWs have “come out” of Babylon the great? Under favorable circumstances in alignment with scripture, this would mean JWs are now blessed by God, and are safe, (which they actually preach) having God’s strength to keep them that way; is that not the case? They have built their DOMAIN – kingDOM. (1 Thess 5:3)

So, if I understand right, you are saying Christendom’s rulers are coming after JWs?  You think they are oppressing Wt’s truth, which is actually lies?  (2 Thess 2:9,10; 2 Pet 1:2-3)

Even though you are in a ‘spiritual paradise’, you do also know that your governing body member, S. Lett, says that Gog of Magog of Ezek 38 is a “Gentile” coalition of nations to come against JWs?  And that persecution is likely?  And these nations are also part of “false religion”/“Babylon the Great”, no? 

You have a conundrum in teachings.  Apparently, the organization of JWs has God’s blessing on it because they are the “remnant” to come out of Babylon the Great, the empire of false religion.   But wait, Christendom/Babylon and Gog of Magog are still coming for you!  

Doesn’t the organization preach that it is full of a righteous, obedient people? So tell me one instance when God allowed other nations to plunder His people, when they were faithful and obeying His laws, which every JW believes they are doing?

 Why did God’s people suffer persecution under the Babylonians?  Judah was wicked, disregarding God’s laws.  Hab 1:1-11

“Didn’t you exist before time began, O Lord, my God, my Holy One? We will not die! O Lord, you have appointed the Babylonians to bring judgment. O Rock, you have destined them to correct us.”  Hab 1:12

If those of your “Babylon” are coming after JWs, what have you done wrong?

What about Lett’s Gog of Magog?  Why did that army come upon Israel? 

“You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. 16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

Why would God need Gog of Magog to prove His holiness? 

“‘I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them.  From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offences, and I hid my face from them.’”  Ezek 39

Yes, Babylon and Gog of Magog were used against Israel as punishment.  I know JWs in general don’t believe they need to be punished by God sending Gentile nations against them.  How do your leaders feel so confident to skip the reasons why God’s people faced persecution from nations?  It is because there are very few among you, who actually READ the scriptures. So, your leaders are banking on the idea that they can get away with it!  You can’t just pick a little here and a little there without giving the entire account of WHY.  Your leaders made the same mistake with the locusts of Joel.  What will JWs do if the organization is still existing 5-10 years from now, when after reading the scriptures, your leaders tell you WHY Gog of Magog came against Israel, and they will have to scrap another embarrassing teaching?

Actually, I believe they have this planned out. They can’t touch Rev 20:7-10.  There, in the last days, Gog and Magog come against and surround…THE ANOINTED SAINTS – THE HOLY PEOPLE.  They don’t bring up this account in the last book of prophesy that addresses Armageddon,  because it conflicts with their false doctrine of a thousand years of peace after Armageddon – this, when it is promised “death will be destroyed” when Jesus returns.  If death is destroyed, then Gog and Magog will not appear a literal thousand years into the Kingdom. (1 Cor 15:25,26)

Taking away their thousand year doctrine would be devastating to the "faith" of JWs! The doctrine of men is more important than the word of God.  That has been proven when JWI said, scrapping 1914 by your leaders years ago who realized it is a lie, would disrupt the “faith” of JWs.  It had nothing to do with TRUTH.  What weak, unfaithful men, who refused to listen to God’s word and choose their falsehoods, over truth.

Christendom and the nations are not the fulfillment of Revelation.  Although Christendom has a horrible history of killing innocent people, possibly even anointed ones over the centuries, about his own people, Jesus said,   

 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!”  Luke 13:34

Do you see?  the blood of the “holy ones”, the prophets, will be required by God’s wayward people – an evil generation, who were under covenant with him, which Christendom is not, and this applies to today's "evil generation".   (Deut 1:35)

Hos 4:1-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+4%3A1-9&version=NIV

Where is “Jerusalem”, “Israel” today?  The anointed are “Israel”/New Jerusalem. (Gal 4:26) The elder body is a very large “Gentile” “iron” nation that has come against God’s authentic anointed. (Dan 2:40-42; Rev 9:1-5; 13:5-7) Compare the numbers and consider the total of elders, thousands of them worldwide.   We know it is far greater than the small amount of anointed, even if God only knows how many authentic anointed there are left in the Wt. Only the elders, can trample the Temple “living stones”; by standing where they don’t belong (Mark 13:14); and they have, by replacing and judging God’s holy priesthood and removing their daily sacrifices of praise. (Dan 8:11-13,31; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:1-4) The holy ones/prophets/”two (meaning truth) witnesses” are sent to God’s people in this day (Rev 11:1-3), warning them of their idolatry to an organization, and for their sins of obeying prominent men, and not Jesus Christ. (Matt 24:24,25; Rev 13:4) They are unfaithful toward God’s laws in Christ, choosing the laws of men founded on lies.  A. Morris said the GB makes "decrees" that must be obeyed. Where is that written in the scriptures that it is okay to follow and obey uninspired men?  God has allowed His Temple to be trampled down as punishment against His people’s sins. (Dan 8:12 ("because of transgression"); Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4)   What happens to any anointed who speaks truth and represent Jesus Christ? They, and the “two witnesses”/appointed messengers are “killed”/disfellowshipped by the “Gentiles”.  This is spiritual blood on the hands of your leaders and the “Gentile”/elders. (Rev 6:9-11)

 How do I know this happens in “Jerusalem”, the “holy city” and not in Christendom?  (Rev 13:5-7; 20:9)

“When they finish their testimony, the beast (organization) that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

Jesus was killed right outside of Jerusalem.  (Heb 13:13)

The apostles were persecuted BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING TRUTH.  They also, were thrown out of the synagogues just as the elders disfellowship any who speak truth today. They are thrown out of the congregations. (John 16:2; Rev 13:15)

Persecution that happens in the world to JWs, is for two reasons.  God lets it happen, since His spirit is not with the organization; and since His people commit idolatry, not following Christ’s teachings. They follow another “head” – your harlot leaders and wicked slave. (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,12,15)  The other reason is because Satan wants to hide the true identity of the man of lawlessness that resides in the organization.  He has devised his counter fulfillment, easily swallowed by JWs like you, since they are blinded by the desire to relish lies and look for fulfillment in Satan’s world – just where he wants their focus to lie. (Luke 17:20,21; Matt 12:39)   This, is the war against truth spoken by Christ’s servants, and falsehoods spoken by Satan’s servants.  (Matt 24:15,16, 22-18; 2 Cor 11:13-14; Rev 12:7-9; 16:13-16 )

Revelation 18:4 says, “come out of her my people”.  Are JWs still thinking that God’s people under covenant are in Christendom and need to “come out”? Or, are JWs in “Babylon”, carrying the mark of the Beast – the identity put upon them by the organization? (Isa 28:14,15; Rev 8:15-17; 14:9,10)

Rev 18:4 applies to God’s holy people and those with them, who are under a “Gentile” rule of discipline.  Only the hard-hearted ones who refuse to see their sins and idolatry, will remain under the rule of the two Beasts of Revelation – Gog and Magog.  There will come a day when the scales will be removed, and they will finally be shown the true identity of the man of lawlessness.  (Rev 17:8)  It’s time to come out of the Wt, now. 

The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

“You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,
    you who are and who were;
for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
    and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”

And I heard the altar respond:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
    true and just are your judgments.” Rev 16:4

Who…has shed the blood of God’s holy people?  Those unfaithful harlot leaders of the physical nation of Israel, and today’s spiritual “Israel”, who have made a covenant with “Gentiles”, leading to the trampling of God’s Temple.  (Dan 11:32; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Rev 11:1-3)

 

Daniel chapter 11

.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

hose who imposed themselves onto Christians and rule like real kings."

I know my history my dear! Already early in the SECOND century (after the death of Apostle John), there were apostates coming into the congregation and creating a ruling class which culminated in the catholic church when the title of pontiff maximus was adopted by Constantine the Great when he made Catholicism the official church of the Roman empire - from there many similar churches broke away....... 

You start to apply this scripture only in the last century - LOL to try and prove it was Russel or JWs.....Churches ruled many countries and killed many christians!  LOL.  The Pope appointed European kings for almost 1000 years and was ABOVE them as an appointment from GOD!  His rule was viewed as one coming down from GOD!

I think YOU really think like a woman - too emotional and too little true history!

 

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“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to ….um….yes, Patiently Sitting on my Hands, what is it?”

On 10/8/2021 at 2:09 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And all this is more important than talking about the JW Org's teachings on certain matters ?????? 

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    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
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