Did Carnivores Exist Before the Flood of Noah's Day?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

38 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

1 Corinthians 12:12–14 — English Standard Version (ESV) 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

NWT.  1 Corinthians 3 : 16 & 17. 

Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? ¹⁷  If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple.

This is the True Anointed ones. One body, the Body of Christ, with Jesus Christ as the head. 

43 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

"The church is called the body of Christ because Christ is the head of the church

What church ? Give me a scripture which includes the word church please.  I want to see where you get the word from because the word 'church' has many different meanings in English. 

You will see above that the scripture I've quoted uses the word 'temple'. That 'temple' is the True Anointed ones. Quote :

for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple. =  The True Anointed.

The Earthly class are not holy. 

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

19 Therefore, brothers,[a] since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,

NWT Hebrews 10 : 19. Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus,

Berean Study Bible
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,

3 different versions of the same scripture. BUT all 3 mention entering the HOLY PLACE. Therefore proving that it refers to the True Anointed ones, because the Earthly ones do not enter into that HOLY PLACE = Heaven. 

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

This is the True Anointed ones. One body, the Body of Christ, with Jesus Christ as the head. 

I agree, the anointed are part of Christ Body. We all have a different function within those Body Parts. However, I still don't see where in scripture, you separate "leaders" which the first century congregations (Churches) had alongside the apostles where scripture divides those body parts to mean individuals instead of unity.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

What church ? Give me a scripture which includes the word church please.  I want to see where you get the word from because the word 'church' has many different meanings in English. 

I apologize. I thought you were fluent in Greek, since you mentioned Greek Scripture instead of the New Testament.

 

NWT

(Ephesians 5:22-24) . . ., 23 because a husband is head of his wife just as the Christ is head of the congregation, he being a savior of this body. 24 In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ, wives should also be to their husbands in everything.

NIV

Ephesians 5:23-24

23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

1.32  ἐκκλησία, ας f: a congregation of Christians, implying interacting membership - 'congregation, church.' τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ τοῦ θεοῦ τῇ οὔσῃ ἐν Κορίνθῳ 'to the church of God which is in Corinth' 1 Cor 1.2; ἀσπάζονται ὑμᾶς αἱ ἐκκλησίαι πᾶσαι τοῦ Χριστοῦ 'all the churches of Christ greet you' Ro 16.16.

I also, didn't want to insult you by using the New World Translation of Jehovah's Witnesses since you are a former member.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

3 different versions of the same scripture. BUT all 3 mention entering the HOLY PLACE. Therefore proving that it refers to the True Anointed ones, because the Earthly ones do not enter into that HOLY PLACE = Heaven. 

I will have to consider this understanding of yours, since this passage is referring to treating our own body as a temple. 

NIV

1 Corinthians 6:18-20

 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

NWT

(1 Corinthians 6:17-20) . . .. 18 Flee from sexual immorality! Every other sin that a man may commit is outside his body, but whoever practices sexual immorality is sinning against his own body. 19 Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit within you, which you have from God? Also, you do not belong to yourselves, 20 for you were bought with a price. By all means, glorify God in your body.
 

Remember, I'm desperately trying not to twist the words of the gospel to mean something else.

[xero]

I'm going to have to block this guy. He loves the sound of his own voice and quite frankly it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. That makes seven now.

[Pudgy]

20 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I apologize, for answering for him ... perhaps I should have waited for his own  answer. of why he bloviates, which I had to look up, because I thought it had something to do with chronic intestinal gas being expelled at easily discernible volume..

This is a bit off-topic, but I have discovered a way to silence the sound.

For reasons I will not mention I heard my Guardian making "motorboat" sounds with his lips and realized that the lips fluttering is what made the motorboat sound.

The following suggestion however, only works for humans.

Get a washcloth and cut it in half with scissors.

Take each half and cut it into four strips (8 strips total).

Take one strip, and separating the two posterior orbs, place the washcloth strip centered on the gas expulsion orifice.  When you release the orbs the friction will hold the washcloth strip in place, all day, without any thought or maintenance whatsoever.

Now, the orbs will not vibrate and not make the familiar sound so disconcerting and telling in an office or elevator.

You may even credibly be able to blame someone else!

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I note that @xero and @Pudgy  dislike spiritual conversation. In fact it seems to to upset them. 

I think that @xero says he is an Elder of a JW congregation. Well it seems strange that he should dislike spiritual conversation then, but no wait, actually it seems quite fitting that he does not like the truth about God and Christ. 

As for James aka @Pudgy well I think he is sitting on that fence right now, not knowing which way to turn. 

Remember both of you, there are only two choices. You can serve Almighty God through Jesus Christ, or, you will be serving the Devil. Serving the GB of the JW org is just part of serving the Devil.  Your life, your choice.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

I will have to consider this understanding of yours, since this passage is referring to treating our own body as a temple. 

This scripture at Hebrews 10 is not talking about our own body. 

Berean Study Bible  verses 19 & 20 
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body,

This is talking about becoming spirit beings and entering Heaven.  If you choose not to believe that then that is your choice. 

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

I agree, the anointed are part of Christ Body. We all have a different function within those Body Parts.

Isn't this the 'new' GB / JW teaching ? Aren't they teaching that all JWs are part of the Body of Christ ? 

And the purpose of that is what ?  The purpose of that untrue teaching is to discredit the True anointed. 

The GB are following the scripture in Matthew 24 : 48 & 49

Berean Study Bible
But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.

The GB, their helpers, and all JWs that do not recognize the True Anointed as being the only Body of Christ and the only Bride of Christ, are disrespecting God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. For it was Almighty God that chose to have a True Anointed, Body of Christ, with Jesus Christ as it's Head.. 

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

I apologize. I thought you were fluent in Greek, since you mentioned Greek Scripture instead of the New Testament.

My education is limited to only English. I call it the Greek Scriptures as it was originally written in Greek.

As for translation, I tend to use the BSB, Berean Study Bible. I've purchased a written copy and find it very good for study purposes.  I do compare it to the NWT regularly as i have a large print copy which is easy to read.  

I was once told by an JW Elder that it matters not what translation you use because if your heart is right toward God you will find truth. However I do not agree with some points in the NWT but overall it is useable. I don't think there is a perfect translation in English but the BSB works well for me.  

I think it would show a lack of spirituality to be offended by any bible translation, but it's always good to compare one with another.

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

1 Corinthians 6 : 19 Berean Literal Bible
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, whom you have from God? And you are not your own,

I've just read this scripture in the JW Kingdom Interlinear Translation from the Greek Scriptures and i note that, if it has been translated properly, there is no word 'WHO'. The word 'WHO' appears in the scripture you have quoted. The word WHO, seems to identify a person, not a power source. It seems to pretend that the Holy Spirit is a 'person' or 'being' rather than a source of power supplied by Almighty God through Jesus Christ. 

I think it is important to understand that the Holy Spirit is a 'power source' controlled by God and sent to some humans via Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is not a 'being' that has control of itself.

The very difference being that in 'bible times' some humans were entered by 'wicked spirits' 'demons' which controlled themselves. Jesus used the power of the Holy Spirit to expel those demons. 

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Christ is head of the congregation

 

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Christ is the head of the church

I see here that you use the word 'church' as I would use the word 'congregation'.  Thank you for your explanation. Here in England the word 'church' can mean a building, or, it can mean the Leaders of a religion, or it can mean the whole congregation. 

My opinion is that when used in the Greek scriptures, the word congregation or church, would refer to the Anointed ones. Jesus is the Head of the congregation. The congregation is the Body of Christ, that is also the Bride of Christ. 

It does not mean there is no place for the Earthly hope. It simply means that in this moment in time, the Anointed remnant are more important. Why ? Because the Devil is trying to stop that Heavenly government / Kingdom from being completed.  If that number of 144,000 is not fulfilled then God's plans cannot go ahead. God has preplanned all things and that Heavenly Kingdom government, consisting of Jesus Christ and the 144,000 is the most important thing right now.  It is that Heavenly Kingdom government that will rule over the Earth and watch over humans in God's 'new world' here on this Earth. 

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

This scripture at Hebrews 10 is not talking about our own body. 

Thank you for making that specific distinction. My mistake.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

This is talking about becoming spirit beings and entering Heaven.

Yes, Apostle Paul in Hebrews 10:19-20 is talking about “the call to perseverance”; this message was meant for all, not just the anointed as indicated in Romans.

NIV

Romans 5:1-5

5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

 

However, I was referring and relating about being blessed after baptism that we should treat our own bodies as temples, indicted by that specific message in Hebrews chapters 3 and 10. We can also use chapter 3 with the word “house” as his congregation or church.

NIV

Hebrews 3:1-6

3 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5 Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

NIV

Hebrews 10:26-31

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."  31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If you choose not to believe that then that is your choice. 

Thank you for your consideration. However, I will respectfully pass your understanding here since it changes the gospel.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Isn't this the 'new' GB / JW teaching ? Aren't they teaching that all JWs are part of the Body of Christ ? 

And the purpose of that is what ?  The purpose of that untrue teaching is to discredit the True anointed. 

The GB are following the scripture in Matthew 24 : 48 & 49

Is that something that is being mentioned here? There are poor examples of Jehovah Witnesses here that contradict scripture as they apply it in their daily lives. It appears loyalty to God is not high on them.

I base my understanding of scripture on what is written in it. Therefore, can you explain how the call to perseverance and confidence in Christ amounts to the Faithful and Wise servant having false teachings when it appears there is a lack of will to understand scripture by the reader, and who is applying it?

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

My education is limited to only English. I call it the Greek Scriptures as it was originally written in Greek.

As for translation, I tend to use the BSB, Berean Study Bible. I've purchased a written copy and find it very good for study purposes.  I do compare it to the NWT regularly as i have a large print copy which is easy to read. 

I see, thank you for clarifying that for me. It’s greatly appreciated when someone spends their time to clarify something without being rude and obnoxious, as it’s done regularly here by many Jehovah Witnesses. I guess those servants would be something to consider when stipulating about false teachings. If you wish, we can continue using the phrase Greek Scripture if you prefer.

I have no problem with the Berean Society, since it appears to be an offshoot of the original Berean Bible Institute (BBI) from Australia. They were part of the Bible Student Association.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I think it would show a lack of spirituality to be offended by any bible translation, but it's always good to compare one with another.

This is true. No one should be offended. However, there are many that use different translations to have a specific approach to scripture. Those that believe they understand fluent Greek for example argue on a specific word and their understanding of that word.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I've just read this scripture in the JW Kingdom Interlinear Translation from the Greek Scriptures and i note that, if it has been translated properly, there is no word 'WHO'. The word 'WHO' appears in the scripture you have quoted. The word WHO, seems to identify a person, not a power source. It seems to pretend that the Holy Spirit is a 'person' or 'being' rather than a source of power supplied by Almighty God through Jesus Christ. 

Perhaps these translations will become more consistent with what the message is.

^KJV  1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (1 Cor. 6:19 KJV)

^CSB  1 Corinthians 6:19 Don't you know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, (1 Cor. 6:19 CSB)

The Holy Ghost (Spirit) is the Grace of God. I don’t see where that would be a person unless you believe in the Trinity.

^NAS  1 Corinthians 6:20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. (1 Cor. 6:20 NAS)

8.1  σῶμα, τος n: the physical body of persons, animals, or plants, either dead or alive - 'body.' πάντα δὲ τὰ μέλη τοῦ σώματος πολλὰ ὄντα ἕν ἐστιν σῶμα 'though all the parts of the body are many, it is still one body' 1 Cor 12.12; ὅπου τὸ σῶμα, ἐκεῖ καὶ οἱ ἀετοὶ

Therefore, the body is the temple which is a physical thing, and we should treat it as a Holy Temple (The Holy Spirit duels in it) after Baptism, and we shouldn’t revert to our old ways as that would defile that physical temple.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

My opinion is that when used in the Greek scriptures, the word congregation or church, would refer to the Anointed ones. Jesus is the Head of the congregation. The congregation is the Body of Christ, that is also the Bride of Christ. 

We can see that in some points we have come to an agreement. However, scripture speaks of not just the anointed as being part of the congregation (Christ Body) but others that will benefit from Christ sacrifice on earth which are also part of the church (Congregation-Christ Body). The Greek translation makes such distinction.

1920  ἐκκλησία , ας f church, congregation; assembly, gathering (of religious, political, or unofficial groups) 

 

531  ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ (1) in a general sense, as a gathering of citizens assembly, meeting (AC 19.32); (2) as the assembled people of Israel congregation (HE 2.12); (3) as the assembled Christian community church, congregation, meeting (RO 16.5); (4) as the totality of Christians living in one place church (AC 8.1); (5) as the universal body of believers church (EP 1.22)

Great Conversation. Hope to have many civil discussions with you.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

4 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Great Conversation. Hope to have many civil discussions with you.

This conversation has indeed been interesting but I think we will continue to have different opinions on many things.

There are many people around this Earth, such as myself, who are not greatly educated and do not understand Hebrew or Greek. Therefore we have to put our trust in 'men' to give us a fairly accurate translation of scripture. But then those that translate the Holy writings have their own agenda, own beliefs and own traditions, and therefore translate the scriptures to their own benefit. It becomes difficult to know which translation to use or to believe. Hence my hope is that through faith and prayer I will gain truth one day. My own thoughts and feelings are not inspired and could easily be wrong. I would not want the job of trying to lead others, nor do I intend to act as a guide, as I am still searching for truth myself. But my hope is in God through Christ, that a True Anointed will soon appear and will guide those of the Earthly hope to truth and teach us how to serve God properly. 

At this very time I do not think anyone is serving God properly. If that sounds like a judgement of mankind, I'm sorry. Some here tell me that I'm hoping for too much. I do realize we are all sinners and I'm not looking for perfection in anyone. Besides, it is not my place to look for perfection or to judge people. However it is my place, for the hope of my own clean conscience, to be looking for truth. 

Have a good day, John 

 

[Mr. Lifeson]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:55 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Whichever way we interpret it, God accepted Abel’s meat sacrifice rather than Cain’s vegetable sacrifice. And that's proof ..... of what?  

I've been wondering about that for quite some time. I never understood why killing parts of God's creation was something that God would find acceptable. It makes zero sense to me. 🤔

[Pudgy]

19 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I note that @xero and @Pudgy  dislike spiritual conversation. In fact it seems to to upset them. 

I think that @xero says he is an Elder of a JW congregation. Well it seems strange that he should dislike spiritual conversation then, but no wait, actually it seems quite fitting that he does not like the truth about God and Christ. 

As for James aka @Pudgy well I think he is sitting on that fence right now, not knowing which way to turn. 

I am speaking for myself only, but I enjoy spiritual discussions if in fact they really ARE spiritual discussions, and not the agenda driven mantras not far removed from how Catholics count beads on a rosary, and mumble "Hail Mary, full of grace....", etc., but I can tell you for a fact that almost nothing upsets me.

What you consider what I dislike would get you fired as a 7 year old Dick Tracy detective, and I get upset rattling peoples' chains to see if they are awake.?

HahahahaHAHahaha

If you had a sense of humor you would know how easy and what fun that is.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

15 hours ago, Mr. Lifeson said:

I've been wondering about that for quite some time. I never understood why killing parts of God's creation was something that God would find acceptable. It makes zero sense to me. 🤔

God created the Law given to Moses. Not just those 10 Commandments but hundreds of laws and rules. 

Within those laws and rules were the animal sacrifices to be offered up. And I think there is a scripture about it being like incense to God. We know of course that it was leading up to the 'sacrifice' of Jesus Christ. 

God makes the rules, we just try to follow and obey them. 

[xero]

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I am speaking for myself only, but I enjoy spiritual discussions if in fact they really ARE spiritual discussions, and not the agenda driven mantras not far removed from how Catholics count beads on a rosary, and mumble "Hail Mary, full of grace....", etc., but I can tell you for a fact that almost nothing upsets me.

What you consider what I dislike would get you fired as a 7 year old Dick Tracy detective, and I get upset rattling peoples' chains to see if they are awake.?

HahahahaHAHahaha

If you had a sense of humor you would know how easy and what fun that is.

 

Agreed. Often people who are full of themselves (confusing this w/holy spirit) go on and on playing bible-ping pong or "I'll parse each sentence you make and see if I kind find a spelling error and congratulate myself when I do" are colossal bores. You see the same kind of pin-head analysis in a lot of forums. These are the Mensa members who've never accomplished anything in their lives except score high-enough on the sub-genius category (which is Mensa) so they can content themselves on their superiority despite their tangible real-world mediocre lives.