How were JW elders who were really Communist Spies appointed by "Holy Spirit"?

[TrueTomHarley]

13 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Wow. Now this needs some deep thinking about.

Okay. Find someone who knows how to do that and get back to us.

14 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So, when the excuse is used concerning CSA

Like so many threads started by others, this one has nothing to do with your favorite topic.

[xero]

I remember there was this minister who was always up in arms about gay people doing unseemly things in parks. I wondered suspiciously about his fascination with deviance. Later he got caught in some male prostitution sting thing. Turns out he was decrying that which he secretly either engaged in or wanted to engage in.

Now I'm not suggesting anything here, but I do find that there's often something wrong with people who keep on about something which has been addressed.

[Equivocation]

@Srecko Sostar Wait what? How is that the same if there is taxation, people who pay their taxes? Can you explain? Capitalism is connected to a Hegemonic System, I don't think you can equal that to Marxism, when anyone with an honest mind can see the difference between the two. Unless you are talking about some category or level of Socialism?

@Space Merchant Therefore, learning and having knowledge is a very powerful thing (knowing his half the battle). But thanks for pointing that out. Capitalism and Marxism are technically opposites from each other, and I don’t know why Srecko brought it up, but you know, Srecko. Even here in School, both these things are often talked about, mentioned in some classes, especially with the current state of things in the United States, as well as China and elsewhere.

If I remember correctly, you always mentioned not everyone has good intent, they have other plans and or goals to provoke and to manipulate people, no shred of good intent.

Also, who is Hasan Piker? You compared @Patiently waiting for Truth to this person to, and now you mention him again when you talked about Capitalisms. I do not know Left vs Right groups, so I do not know these leaders or stars some people follow.

@Isabella I speak Spanish myself lol, I often find myself having to constantly translate my browser from Spanish to English to read some of these comments, but will have to proof read because the browsers does not translate all words properly.

Maybe you should be more comfortable...

La respuesta corta es, no, nosotros los testigos de Jehová, incluso los testigos de Jehová en el pasado, no apoyamos nada relacionado con el comunismo.

Como señaló @Space Merchant, los gobiernos superiores, incluidas las personas afiliadas al comunismo, buscan destruir o arruinar a cualquiera o cualquier cosa que se considere una oposición a ellos. Esto nos lleva a los testigos de Jehová, a nosotros, mantenemos la neutralidad, no apoyamos a los gobiernos ni tomamos partido político. Para crédito de @Space Merchant, tampoco somos marxistas ni nada equivalente a eso, y no estoy seguro de por qué @Srecko Sostar mencionó el capitalismo porque la gente está al tanto de la historia con eso frente al marxismo y el comunismo, así que tenga cuidado de no dejarse engañar por eso. El comunismo requiere que un individuo apoye la visión del gobierno del régimen, y solo eso, así puedo ver por qué @Space Merchant mer mencionó a China y por qué @Melinda Millsy @TrueTomHarley dieron ejemplo de personas en la congregación que no tienen buenas intenciones.

Nunca se menciona que alguno de estos espías se convirtiera en testigo de Jehová, quizás exista una posibilidad, pero generalmente los espías, como ya hemos visto en Rusia, simplemente asisten al servicio, hacen preguntas, manipulan, etc. para forzar la sumisión.

Ahora el objetivo del comunista es [era] difundir propaganda, en la que lo hicieron, haciendo que la gente crea que los testigos de Jehová, que son neutrales, de alguna manera apoyan al comunismo.

El artículo que presentó del sitio web de La Atalaya muestra un ejemplo de varias tácticas que los comunistas pueden hacer. Realmente no puedo escribir los nombres de la UE en español, así que simplemente copiaré / pegaré del artículo.

Tactics of the Enemy

The next wave of persecution came from the Communists, who kept up their brutal and systematic campaign for the better part of four decades…. Why was the good news able to make progress under those oppressive conditions? Only because Jesus proved true to his words: “Look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 28:20) Let us now go back about one hundred years to the time when Kingdom seed was first cast on the soil of what is today called Eastern Europe.

The Iron Curtain Comes Down On Romania - In November 1946, the year before Alfred Rütimann’s visit, the Communists came to power in Romania. Over the next few years, their party eliminated any remaining opposition and accelerated the process of Sovietization, whereby Romania’s cultural and political institutions were aligned with Soviet models…. Taking full advantage of the calm before the storm, the brothers printed hundreds of thousands of magazines, booklets, and other publications, distributing them to 20 depots throughout the country. At the same time, many increased their activity, and some started pioneering, including Mihai Nistor and Vasile Sabadâş.

Later, another brother wrote that “the family is not in a position to receive any sweets” and that “many are ill.” He meant that it was not possible to send spiritual food into Romania and that many brothers were in prison.

Following a decision issued by the Justice Ministry on August 8, 1949, the Bucharest office and living quarters were closed, and all the equipment, including personal belongings, was seized. In the ensuing years, hundreds of brothers were arrested and sentenced. Under Fascist rule, Jehovah’s Witnesses had been accused of being Communists; but when the Communists came to power, the brothers were labeled “imperialists” and “American propagandists.” Spies and informers lurked everywhere. The measures taken by the Communists, said the 1953 Yearbook, “have become so severe now that anyone receiving mail in Romania from the West is put on the black list and is watched carefully.” The report continues: “It is almost impossible to imagine the terror that exists there. Even the members of families are unable to put confidence in other members of their own household. Freedom is absolutely gone.”

Brother Magyarosi, then in his late 60’s, was sent to the Gherla prison in Transylvania, where he died at the end of 1951. “Many and great have been his sufferings for the sake of the truth,” said a report, “especially since his arrest in January 1950. Now these sufferings have come to an end.” Yes, for approximately 20 years, Martin endured vicious attacks by the clergy, the Fascists, and the Communists. His example of integrity calls to mind the words of the apostle Paul: “I have fought the fine fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith.” (2 Tim. 4:7) Though not imprisoned, his wife, Maria, also set a fine example of endurance under adversity. One brother described her as “an intelligent sister, fully devoted to the Lord’s work.” After Martin’s arrest, Maria was cared for by relatives, including her adopted daughter, Mărioara, who spent time in prison herself and was released in the autumn of 1955.

Zone Overseers Help Promote Unity - For decades the Communists did all in their power to sow seeds of doubt and disunity among God’s people and to stifle communication. As mentioned, they had a measure of success. In fact, some divisions persisted even into the 1980’s. The visits of zone overseers helped to correct this problem, as did a changing political climate.

Por lo que he leído hasta ahora, este artículo menciona a los espías, pero nunca se dijo que estos espías fueran ancianos y siervos ministeriales. A menos que tenga más información al respecto, no dude en publicar.

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

21 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay. Find someone who knows how to do that and get back to us.

Like so many threads started by others, this one has nothing to do with your favorite topic.

I was making practical application of Watchtower theory, which of course people like you hate. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

20 hours ago, xero said:

Now I'm not suggesting anything here, but I do find that there's often something wrong with people who keep on about something which has been addressed.

Having suffered CSA myself, I have empathy for those who are victims of same. In this case above I was just making practical application of Watchtower theory and quoting from the same article as Tom. 

However, because you do not seem to have any empathy or sympathy for others, you find pleasure in twisting things as it seems to give you a 'kick' of some sort.  Enjoy your twisted thinking. 

[Srecko Sostar]

@Equivocation Our friend SM introduced Capitalism and Communism into this topic :)) Don't ask me.

[Isabella]

hace 15 horas, Equivocation dijo:

I speak Spanish myself lol, I often find myself having to constantly translate my browser from Spanish to English to read some of these comments, but will have to proof read because the browsers does not translate all words properly.

Maybe you should be more comfortable...

La respuesta corta es, no, nosotros los testigos de Jehová, incluso los testigos de Jehová en el pasado, no apoyamos nada relacionado con el comunismo.

@EquivocationI've not asked  about Communism,  not in my first question, not in my second comment

hace 15 horas, Equivocation dijo:

Por lo que he leído hasta ahora, este artículo menciona a los espías, pero nunca se dijo que estos espías fueran ancianos y siervos ministeriales. A menos que tenga más información al respecto, no dude en publicar.

In their attempts to weaken the faith of Jehovah’s servants or to bully them into submission, the Communists employed spies, traitors, torture, lying propaganda, and the threat of death. Spies and informers included neighbors, work colleagues, apostates, family members, and Securitate agents. The latter even infiltrated congregations by feigning interest in the truth and learning theocratic terms. These “false brothers” did much harm and caused many arrests. One of them, Savu Gabor, even held a responsible position. He was exposed in 1969.—Gal. 2:4.

 

What is a responsible position to you that needed to be exposed?  ¿Acomodadores? ¿asistente de literatura? ¿asistente de sonido? Why is this man Savu Gabor so important in Romania that the article exposed his name so all of the millions  of JWs around the world  know it? now that I read again, this man could also have been a traveling overseer, just a possibility, would need to do some research about him but honestly I'm not interested in his personal life or death, that was in 1969 😄 What he did  was just an example of what happened there and in other countries. 

 

[xero]

Just now, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Having suffered CSA myself, I have empathy for those who are victims of same. In this case above I was just making practical application of Watchtower theory and quoting from the same article as Tom. 

However, because you do not seem to have any empathy or sympathy for others, you find pleasure in twisting things as it seems to give you a 'kick' of some sort.  Enjoy your twisted thinking. 

I don't have sympathy or empathy for loud mouthed bellyacher's who have to keep whining on and on about stuff like somehow Jehovah screwed up because the world isn't perfect and they stubbed their toe. 

Michael Mahoney in his book "Self Change" nailed it when he pointed out that ALL PERSONAL PROBLEMS ARE CURRENT. Things that happened years ago only have influence if you keep these things alive. You are working hard at keeping it alive. Stop picking at your scabs.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

55 minutes ago, xero said:

I don't have sympathy or empathy for loud mouthed bellyacher's who have to keep whining on and on about stuff like somehow Jehovah screwed up because the world isn't perfect and they stubbed their toe. 

And what does that prove? JW members have been preaching the same things for decades, when they claim that satan and Adam and Eve are to blame for all the evil. But then they go further and say that we are to blame ourselves for the bad things that happen to us. What is it but constant repetition of the same thing?

1 hour ago, xero said:

Michael Mahoney in his book "Self Change" nailed it when he pointed out that ALL PERSONAL PROBLEMS ARE CURRENT. Things that happened years ago only have influence if you keep these things alive. You are working hard at keeping it alive. Stop picking at your scabs.

Yes, we are the ones who can bury the past or keep it alive. But it has been proven that the past repeats (in general) itself over and over again. Good and evil is the everyday of our lives as it is of all generations before us. 

Isabella can benefit from your comment, because it answers her question in a way that what she is talking about was just a current problem, and that there is no need to worry about it after so many decades.  

[Matthew9969]

1 hour ago, xero said:

I don't have sympathy or empathy for loud mouthed bellyacher's who have to keep whining on and on about stuff like somehow Jehovah screwed up because the world isn't perfect and they stubbed their toe. 

Michael Mahoney in his book "Self Change" nailed it when he pointed out that ALL PERSONAL PROBLEMS ARE CURRENT. Things that happened years ago only have influence if you keep these things alive. You are working hard at keeping it alive. Stop picking at your scabs.

 

Some jw's need to heed this advice when it comes to the catholic church.

Scars are the battle wounds that prove we are still alive.

[xero]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And what does that prove? JW members have been preaching the same things for decades, when they claim that satan and Adam and Eve are to blame for all the evil. But then they go further and say that we are to blame ourselves for the bad things that happen to us. What is it but constant repetition of the same thing?

Yes, we are the ones who can bury the past or keep it alive. But it has been proven that the past repeats (in general) itself over and over again. Good and evil is the everyday of our lives as it is of all generations before us. 

Isabella can benefit from your comment, because it answers her question in a way that what she is talking about was just a current problem, and that there is no need to worry about it after so many decades.  

You aren't thinking clearly or parsing my words properly if you for a moment imagined I was trying to prove anything.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, xero said:

You aren't thinking clearly or parsing my words properly if you for a moment imagined I was trying to prove anything.

I do not see your comment as an attempt to prove anything, but as a claim/statement that was directed against @Patiently waiting for Truthway of thinking and feeling.