After Forty Years at Bethel...

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

God is not a God of confusion, neither should Christ followers.

Exactly right, but the Wt. leaders are experts at creating confusing doctrines.  So, Christ's followers would reject such doctrine and rely on the words already established in Jesus Christ.  

[Pudgy]

3 minutes ago, Witness said:

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

God is not a God of confusion, neither should Christ followers.

Exactly right, but the Wt. leaders are experts at creating confusing doctrines.  So, Christ's followers would reject such doctrine and rely on the words already established in Jesus Christ.  

Airliners should not crash .... either.

But they do.

To reasonably expect others to be "perfect", you have to actually BE the example.

How are you two critters doin' on THAT?

[Thinking]

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Airliners should not crash .... either.

But they do.

To reasonably expect others to be "perfect", you have to actually BE the example.

How are you two critters doin' on THAT?

Agreed!…

Christ’s  followers were confused a lot of the times…first when they went out on their first preaching missionary they taught and thought that Gods Kingdom had already come and Jesus was there to rule now….( wow that was misleading …and the thing was Jesus knew that but let them go on with it anyway)…..seems they got confused many times over Jesus and his actions…how on earth could he ever talk to the Samaritan woman..that was a big one…confusion over circumcising..confused over drinking Jesus blood and eating his flesh…and what of Peter renouncing Jesus three times..out of fear…all of them were confused and frightened on the night of Jesus and his betrayal….they scattered frightened and left him alone ..they never had a clue as to what was going on..yet he told them…they should have…

And they fought amongst themselves and yelled at each other…brothers and sister of the anointed at that(…even after Jesus death and their anointing…)

Yet they had the scriptures…they should have known …should have discerned what would happen to the coming Messiah….they lived with him..knew him In The flesh….he TOLD THEM….yet they abandoned  him in his hour of need…confused …they didn’t understand  anything!!!

Yet who of us does not want to be like them…..Dmitar….why do you think Gods people will be any different in the time of the end …or at any time in the past….

Those men were constantly learning…failing ..enduring…growing in years and age as well as understandings…and probably the wisest they ever were was just before they died.

But HE chose the foolish of the world, remembering they are but from dust and he keeps putting up with the weak earthly vessels…that are all cracked and flawed….so why do you expect such a high standard when HE knows it’s not possible .

1Cor 1:27

but God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise

God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, Pudgy said:

And more to the point, does he still claim to own a 50 ca. BMG sniper rifle?

Oh no, not you and him competing on weapons again. I've got all that previous conversation saved to my computer  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

NO. I just use the Berean Study Bible. It is an easy Bible for me to read.... 

BUT You seem to need to connect me to something or to someone. 

You are a very sad person unfortunately. You have allowed yourself to be be currupted by other JWs.

As you say 'Bad association spoils good character', and the JW org IS bad association. 

But you copy TTH in this way, always trying to connect people, group people together, and aways for a reason to discreddit them. 

You grouped me with @Srecko Sostar and with @Witness and for what purpose ? Not to give us any credit but for the purpose of your own arguemnet.  

So i didn't bother to read that long dribble you probably coppied and pasted. Why ? Because it means nothing to me.

WE ALL NEED TO USE A BIBLE. I use the BSB and the NWT.  Neither of them are completely accurate. 

I do not think either of those Bibles are inspired or even guided by God of Christ. But they are both quite easy to use.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

4 hours ago, Thinking said:

Christ’s  followers were confused a lot of the times…first when they went out on their first preaching missionary they taught and thought that Gods Kingdom had already come and Jesus was there to rule now….( wow that was misleading …and the thing was Jesus knew that but let them go on with it anyway)…..seems they got confused many times over Jesus and his actions…how on earth could he ever talk to the Samaritan woman..that was a big one…confusion over circumcising..confused over drinking Jesus blood and eating his flesh…and what of Peter renouncing Jesus three times..out of fear…all of them were confused and frightened on the night of Jesus and his betrayal….they scattered frightened and left him alone ..they never had a clue as to what was going on..yet he told them…they should have…

 If you really believe all this that you have written then I pity you for lack of your faith.

Quote "Christ’s followers were confused a lot of the times… " 

John 16 : 12 & 13  Berean Literal Bible Jesus said 
"Yet I have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now." 

"But when He the, Spirit of truth, shall come, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak from Himself, but whatever He may hear, He will speak. And He will declare to you the things coming."

So Jesus obviously didn't want to give them all the details at that time. 

However after His resurrection Jesus did explain more.

Luke 24 : 44 - 49. NWT

He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45  Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46  and he said to them, “This is what is written: that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, 47  and on the basis of his name, repentance for forgiveness of sinse would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem. 48  You are to be witnesses of these things. 49  And look! I am sending upon you what my Father promised. You, though, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Quote "and what of Peter renouncing Jesus three times..out of fear" 

Do you think so ? Had Jesus not already told Peter what would happen. Do you not think it was planned to happen that way. Don't you think the crowd would have grabbed Peter and possibly killed him if Peter had confessed to being with Jesus ?  Jesus knew the outcome and the possible danger for peter. 

Quote "all of them were confused and frightened on the night of Jesus and his betrayal….they scattered frightened and left him alone"

Once again preplanned. Matthew 26 : 31 & 32 NWT

Then Jesus said to them: “All of you will be stumbled in connection with me on this night, for it is written: ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered about.’ ³²  But after I have been raised up, I will go ahead of you into Galʹi·lee.”

Have you no faith. What would have happened to those disciples if they had stayed there? This was a lynch mob that came to arrest Jesus. Jesus has forwarned them and told them they would scatter. 

Unfortunately you are just trying to make excuses for the GB. But you are insulting Jesus and His discipels. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

9 hours ago, Pudgy said:

To reasonably expect others to be "perfect", you have to actually BE the example.

Jesus was the example. The perfect example to His Spirtual Brothers. The True Anointed.

 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

Agreed!…

Christ’s  followers were confused a lot of the times

Christ's disciples grew up under the old law covenant.  In one day, Jesus overturned their belief system.  They were gradually learning from the words of Jesus. 

His words/teachings have been around for over 2,000 years.  So what excuse do Wt's leaders of spiritual "Israel" have, for being so confused, evident in 150 years of ever changing doctrine?  Did it take 150 years for the apostles to figure it out?

 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."  John 14:26

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."  John 15:26

 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened."  Matt 7:7,8

Confusion is not how Christ teaches truth.  Follow just one string of doctrine in the organization and it is evident that the doctrine's creator is confusion; which means, its leadership does not have the "Spirit of truth".

 "For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."  1 Cor 14:33

 

 

[Dmitar]

12 hours ago, Witness said:

Exactly right, but the Wt. leaders are experts at creating confusing doctrines.  So, Christ's followers would reject such doctrine and rely on the words already established in Jesus Christ.  

Can I ask, who is judging them? If other Christians behave in the same manner and judge, what's the point of their fellowship. They would be condemned as unrighteous too by canonical law.

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Christ's disciples grew up under the old law covenant.  In one day, Jesus overturned their belief system.  They were gradually learning from the words of Jesus. 

His words/teachings have been around for over 2,000 years.  So what excuse do Wt's leaders of spiritual "Israel" have, for being so confused, evident in 150 years of ever changing doctrine?  Did it take 150 years for the apostles to figure it out?

Can you clarify how Jesus overturned the old law covenant? Does this mean you believe, Jesus removed the ten commandments from Christianity?

Also, can you expand your thought over Matthew?

In Matthew 5:17-18, as part of His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

How does that relate to the 2000 years of Christ teachings that has been improved to mimic that sentiment over a 150-year span? Are you comfortable with Christianities old foundation of, unwilling to understand the first century Christian foundation set forth by Christ himself?

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You are a very sad person unfortunately. You have allowed yourself to be be currupted by other JWs.

Sad to say, this applies to you. A person without a will corrupts himself. Since you're not a good host, I will not use scripture with you. Please allow me the same respect from you. You have lost all reason to use scripture. Also, if you're going to use the Berean Bible Society Bible, understand their background. You will find, they have the same Christian foundation of writing as the former organization you disparage. You can start with their magazine "Berean Searchlight-2022".

Not only that, but you should pay closer attention to your spiritual leader here @Witness

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Can I ask, who is judging them?

 Ps 19:7-11; John 12:48; Jer 23:29