How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.

[Pudgy]

Did you, PfwT, know that you just falsely attributed to me words that I never typed?

1.). How did you get it to look legitimate?

2.). Was it an accident, or deliberate deception?

 

It is easy enough to check exactly what I DID type 16 hours + 20 minutes before your deceptive post. (When I posted THIS … your false attribution was 16 hours old, and your deceptive post was only 20 minutes old.)

3.)  Did you make this up yourself, or quote it from someone else, and then either way falsely attribute it to me?

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yeshua showed up the faults of the Pharisees

He did not do it obsessively. 

[Pudgy]

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Ha Ha More click bait from little tommy. Be careful with your insults, I thik there is a scripture which warns you of such. Of course that does not apply to me, because I will lie freely to support my corrupt agenda.

The boxed “quote” is an example of false, manufactured “documentation”.  The added sentence I made up to show how false attribution can be done.

[TrueTomHarley]

56 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

PSomH: “

Ha Ha More click bait from little tommy.”

The boxed “quote” is an example of false, manufactured “documentation”.  The added sentence I made up to show how false attribution can be done.

Tell the dodo it couldn’t have been click bait because there was no place given for anyone to click.

[Pudgy]

It took me a full minute to figure out who “PSomH” was.

It at first went over my head.

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

must be lovely belonging to an organisation run by men ...

You remind me of those leaders in South Africa who only did theology studies at university and received doctors degrees on the "Freedom Fighters" in the bible.  One can twist anything from the bible to suit your narrative. Fortunately Jehovah by means of his son is the judge of the sincerity of heart and truly can identify the non-deceptive heart.

[xero]

To me, people who spend their time thinking they have any control over anyone else's fate in this universe or that somehow when they look in the mirror, they inwardly smile to themselves at their own righteousness as they compare this false image with the other false image of their fellow humans who undoubtedly are less shiny because of having failed to "carry the one" spiritually speaking are fooling themselves. Go into your closet, pray to Jehovah and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Pudgy, I totally understand what you are getting at. When people  have such an abundance of  hate-OCD, they conflate all non-compatable subjects to lead to ONE conclusion every time. All thinking processes lead to ONE conclusion and all scriptures are thrown together to lead to ONE conclusion.

For JWs that "one conclusion" is that the existence of an earthly organization built by uninspired men, is taught as inspired by God. Yet, there are more than one "spirit" that can "inspire" men. (Rev 13:15)

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall ("apostatize") away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons  by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron"  1 Tim 4:1,2

Who are the "some" and what do those "some" do?

"But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their indecent behavior, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."   2 Pet 2:1-3

The way of the truth is through Jesus Christ - NEVER THROUGH ANY ORGANIZATION THAT MEN WOULD BUILD.  But that is the one conclusion that every JW has come to believe.  Your leaders have denied their Master who bought them through the anointing.  They have effectively diverted the way of the truth, through their teaching that an organization is necessary to reach salvation.  

 

[Anna]

Par 12 WT 2006

"We therefore have reason to think carefully about our personal situation. Are we actually inside Jehovah’s arrangement of spiritual protection? When the great tribulation strikes, tears of joy and thankfulness will stream down the faces of those who have sought such protection. For others, there will be only tears of sorrow and regret."

When you carefully read this paragraph, it is important to note it is addressing people who have access to the Study version of the WT, which is studied at the KH of Jehovah’s Witnesses. . I do not see a resident of the slums of Calcutta mulling over this WT. Logically, it cannot apply to those people who are not in a position to read these words, and therefore it must apply to those who are able to make a choice, i.e. those who are associated with JWs, know what they should do according to Jesus, but are sitting on the fence. (Or it it sitting on their hands?)

The person in the slums can hardly have regret over something he was not aware of in the first place.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

I do not see a resident of the slums of Calcutta mulling over this WT. Logically, it cannot apply to those people who are not in a position to read these words, 

You're saying that there have been no missionaries "preaching" to people in Calcutta at their doors over the years?  Are you also saying that in your Armageddon, these people will not be destroyed?

1 hour ago, Anna said:

and therefore it must apply to those who are able to make a choice, i.e. those who are associated with JWs,

So, the  choice is to associate with JWs, the only choice that JWs comprehend when a person studies Wt literature with them, which is to join the physical organization.  Is that how they are sanctified?  John 17:17

1 hour ago, Anna said:

know what they should do according to Jesus,

What does this mean?  According to Jesus what should someone do?  Be dedicated to an organization?  Where in his words does he say this?  Can you show me from the scriptures, or is it only your organization  that says this?  Who's words do JWs listen to?  he Holy Spirit is not restricted to an earthly organization; and believe me, where lies are found - false teachings that cannot be dismissed, Holy Spirit will not be found there.   Jesus said, "For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”

We have that truth in the scriptures. Do you really believe that Jesus' voice is heard through your leadership that can't even understand his words about "this generation"?  Men, who keep setting dates contrary to what the scriptures tell us? Men who tell their flock that there will be two Armageddon, one now and one a thousand years later?   Are these men truly on the side of truth?

@Arauna, @Thinking - 

"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev 7:9,10,15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."    km 11/1990

This is idolatry.  The organization was built "on the earth", "like" other organizations found on the earth.  It was created by men.  Rom 1:25  It is interesting that students are to be directed to what they can literally see established in Satan's world.  1 John 5:19  

‘You shall have no other gods besides Me.

8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9 You shall not worship them nor serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, inflicting the punishment of the fathers on the children, even on the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."  Deut 5:7-10

As I said, Jesus never taught the foundation members of his temple, to build an earthly organization. They were the "organization" - a heavenly, spiritual one, built on his body.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22

 

 

 

 

[xero]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

For JWs that "one conclusion" is that the existence of an earthly organization built by uninspired men, is taught as inspired by God. Yet, there are more than one "spirit" that can "inspire" men. (Rev 13:15)

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall ("apostatize") away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons  by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron"  1 Tim 4:1,2

Who are the "some" and what do those "some" do?

"But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their indecent behavior, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."   2 Pet 2:1-3

The way of the truth is through Jesus Christ - NEVER THROUGH ANY ORGANIZATION THAT MEN WOULD BUILD.  But that is the one conclusion that every JW has come to believe.  Your leaders have denied their Master who bought them through the anointing.  They have effectively diverted the way of the truth, through their teaching that an organization is necessary to reach salvation.  

 

You're flat out wrong AND you have no common sense to boot. What is the dragnet, if not the disparate nominal Christian organizations? How CAN you NOT isolate yourself like the selfish do w/o an organization? How WOULD the Bible have been preserved w/o an organization to do so.

Being part of an organization is critical and you have to make a choice. Pretend you aren't as corrupt and flawed as those you might sneer at, or work out your own salvation w/fear and trembling WITHIN an organization which YOU feel is supporting your efforts BETTER than the others.

[Thinking]

23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg points out, as far as I can remember, two things related to “salvation”; these are place and state. The place is - the JW Congregation which is part of the WTS legal body. The condition is - full membership in the congregation as a baptized member or as an unbaptized member on the way to baptism, or an individual as part of the family being baptized.

It is not entirely clear to me that you are reprimanding me for some things while at the same time you see / look at things like me, and you notice the problems of the "YHVH organization".

You need to change your font or whatever it’s called ….I go cross eyed trying to read your posts…it’s terrible to read…

Im not reprimanding you……you frustrate  me more than anything….and yes I notice the problems with in the org…..and I’ve tried to explain to you numerous times about this…..

I see some of the things you point out….I’ve lived thru some terrible cruelness that even unbelievers would not condone….and I don’t defend any of it.

But I also know that the organization is not all like my old cong ….and tho I’ve absolutely detested with the greatest loathing what was allowed……I also have experienced wonderful moments with a vast array of different personalities with in the org…some of the best memories of my life have been with in the truth….and some of the very worst as well.

I remember the good…I see the good…and I choose to stay around those types .

The difference between you and me….is I never ever did see the org as something perfect….I went in with my eyes wide open to the errors…fortunately I had enough brothers and sisters around me who were grounded and down to earth.

The salt of the earth types….I also had the super apostles…I also looked at many other faiths…

Unfortunately and to my utter devastation,,,JWs were the only ones who had all my questions answered correctly….yet even then I saw what I considered a lot of errors….and I wondered why….and eventually I worked it out…

Now you have to work it out…..yes they always taught that first paragraph you wrote….I still hear it from time to time…..but it’s a old thought…and old teaching…and I wish we had never taught it….and it will probably take another generation for it to die out completely…….but my guess is it came from Rutherford claiming the ark represented the org….the org is just a huge group of people….from all walks of life..with all different personalities and cultures….somehow when we meet a fellow witness in another town or country …automatically we have a bond ….like it or not…there has to be a captain of  the ship….we have eight men who are just men…some I enjoy more than others…..some I take note of more than others …some thoughts I disagree with…overall they have done a incredible job in getting some basic truths out there…and keeping a huge massive family in reasonable order in a world collapsing around them….I don’t worship them and I second guess them all the time…and there has been a number of heart wrenching casualties along the way…..What do you want me to say Sreko…that we are a wonderful bubbly happy lot of people who worship the GB as if they were rocket men ….Like gods from North Korea….some do…a lot dont…and no a lot of us are tired and weary..grumpy..worn out…trying to live in a world run by and evil dictator named Satan…

Why are you here..why do you talk with me???…go and be happy with your faith..preach the good news and be satisfied with that…and if we are wrong….we die….