How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

have come to the realisation that Jesus forgave those who REPENTED…..everyday ask Jehovah

Sometimes an act of repentance is to forgive others and even to forgive yourself. Who of us does not act irrationally at times? Eccl 7: 7  "Oppression can drive a wise one to madness" 

[Pudgy]

21 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Sometimes an act of repentance is to forgive others and even to forgive yourself. Who of us does not act irrationally at times? Eccl 7: 7  "Oppression can drive a wise one to madness" 

That’s why in Texas they have the “ … but yer honor … he NEEDED  killin’ !”  defense.

….. usually involving some guy named “Bubba”.

 

[Witness]

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

People complain about the idea that we tie baptism to an organization. But the primary intention is alway about doing our best to meet the standards of Jehovah's heavenly organization, an organization that only INCLUDES an imperfect earthly part. Also, I don't think that anyone would complain that an Amish baptism is meant to identify you as part of an Amish church, for example. 

Shouldn’t they complain?  Wt’s baptism is not based on scripture, it is a doctrine of men – the twisting of Christ’s words.  We have warning after warning not to change the word of God, and it matters not if the Amish baptize into their church.  Making the comparison does not condone the Wt. to do so, especially since your leaders say they strictly follow the scriptures.  This gives good evidence that they do not!

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

All well-organized churches keep membership roles.

“You abandon the commandments of God to follow human traditions.”  Mark 7:8

Christ gave a commandment about baptizing.  Do we dare think we can change this commandment that comes from the Father?

"All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines."  Col 2:22

"‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

Their worship of me is pointless,
because their teachings are rules made by humans.’ ”  Matt 15:8,9

 

 

[Pudgy]

You know, normally I would take what Witness had to say as interesting opinions with some valuable truth, but with a screwball perspective in some areas.

And normally I would have to say from everything I have read I would say that JW Insider Is the most accurate and insightful poster we have here.

If I did not know and had been through the change in the baptismal questions from allegiance to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, to the Father, the Son and the Organization represented by the Governing Body I could more likely disregard what Witness had to say.

Knowing that it is “somewhat true” by direct observation with my own eyes, and not from playing with words, I think we have a very real important topic that the two heavyweights here can debate and determine between themselves what “the REAL 42” is about life, the Universe, and everything, specifically about Witnesses’ latest post.

I for one, will refrain from interjecting distractions of any sort, should they decide to take up the challenge, and will just sit back and take notes.

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Wt’s baptism is not based on scripture,

Those who were baptized in the time of Jesus formed a congregation and they worked together as a congregation.  They were so separate from other religions that it was called "The Way".  Loyalty to Jehovah, Jesús and their brothers was of utmost importance.  Paul writes in his letters about the love in the congregation and how it must be expanded. Many sold their property to give to the congregation and share what they had with brothers so there could be an 'equalizing".  The hospitality was outstanding and Paul often stayed with those whom accepted the faith. So, true faith is about serving the family of faith and looking after them - accepting them as your extended family and being part of that family. Acknowledging they are your true brothers and sisters.  

Where is your extended family that you have become part of when you were baptized? (congregation, or body of Christ which you always refer to), those who share the same beliefs as you do?  

You - are truly the one that twists words all the time.... and while you have a right to say the most vile things and the most untruthful and crazy  things on this forum to get a like from all haters of JWs, we do not for moment even consider your extrapolations as honest or truthful because all your arguments have gaping holes in them!

[Arauna]

47 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

will refrain from interjecting distractions of any sort,

Truth is truth and cannot be a half-truth.  Truth that is exaggerated or minimized is not truth.  Most of the propaganda in the media today (no matter which country one goes to) starts with a truth-like sounding statement and then twists it ever so slightly so that it is no longer truth.  This is how they get millions of people to harm themselves without realizing they are being harmed by what they listen to.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Truth is truth and cannot be a half-truth.  Truth that is exaggerated or minimized is not truth.  Most of the propaganda in the media today (no matter which country one goes to) starts with a truth-like sounding statement and then twists it ever so slightly so that it is no longer truth.  This is how they get millions of people to harm themselves without realizing they are being harmed by what they listen to.

Can we claim that every word, letter, and comma in the Bible is true? I don’t think so, because there are countless copies and there are countless translations and there are countless interpretations of this book. 

Changes to the text were made not only by non-JW experts, but also by the JW individuals themselves who participated in the creation of the several NWT Bible translations.

Since, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then we can also say that the truth is in the subjectivity of each individual. Whether an individual is more or less subject to external influences and creates his own judgment after absorbing all such factors is not always possible to determine. But we can generally agree that sometimes it is difficult to classify a physical reality as truth or falsehood. How often this is in vain in the sphere of the spiritual and moral / ethical when it comes to religious doctrines.

WTJWorg is unfortunately a great example of how “some truth” becomes a half-truth or a complete lie. The history of changed doctrines provides irrefutable proof and confirmation. Your statement should be accurate and true in its very claim and strength, and I adhere to the idea that truth is true and cannot be half-true. But it all falls into the water because people have the tools with which, because of which our common hope turns into futile desire.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

Truth is truth and cannot be a half-truth.  Truth that is exaggerated or minimized is not truth. 

Sorry Arauna but this brings us back to the Superior Authorities scripture in Romans for one thing.

It also brings us back to the number of times the Watchtower / Bible Students / JW Org have made predictions which have not come true.

I find it strange that some on here criticise @Witness for her words but you are happy to allow for your own Leaders to have told lies / make deliberate mistakes / misuse scripture.  I do not see any balance there. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s the 42 anointed who met together after they were ordered not to in order to baptize without asking each other a ton of questions.

Well i did actually find this funny. But it does show that you read other people's commets too.

Your one sentance here was well put together. Thankyou.  

[Witness]

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Those who were baptized in the time of Jesus formed a congregation and they worked together as a congregation.  They were so separate from other religions that it was called "The Way".  Loyalty to Jehovah, Jesús and their brothers was of utmost importance.  Paul writes in his letters about the love in the congregation and how it must be expanded. Many sold their property to give to the congregation and share what they had with brothers so there could be an 'equalizing".  The hospitality was outstanding and Paul often stayed with those whom accepted the faith. So, true faith is about serving the family of faith and looking after them - accepting them as your extended family and being part of that family. Acknowledging they are your true brothers and sisters.  

Where is your extended family that you have become part of when you were baptized? (congregation, or body of Christ which you always refer to), those who share the same beliefs as you do?  

My spiritual “extended family” includes  exjws found worldwide, both anointed and disciples of Christ. We also have a few who never became JWs.  But I've said this before.  We care for one another freely, we support one another in various ways that you can’t imagine.  There is no possibility of having this connection between anointed ones in the organization.  Remember that are not to bond together, and the anointed are not be sought out? 

The anointed have no family in Christ in the organization, because they are restricted by men’s doctrines.  They have no association with the GB/ "anointed" in charge.  Tell me, is that how an extended family shows love to their fellow brothers and sisters?  If I or any anointed one was to show up at Warwick and asked to speak to my fellow brothers in Christ, would I be allowed to?  No.  They are too afraid that their power over all of you, will be shattered by any truth that would come from another anointed one's heart; so, they have set in place doctrine to avoid that. They practice exactly what they sarcastically tell anointed not to do. 

Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior. They would also never suggest to others that these too have been anointed and should start partaking; rather, they would humbly acknowledge that it is Jehovah who does the calling of anointed ones. Wt 16/1

Flip these words around:

Immodestly, the GB claim to have more holy spirit than their anointed brothers and sisters.  They claim that you must listen only to them and their special knowledge that they receive from "Jehovah's organization" (how does THAT work?).  They try to prove that they are superior and demand obedience to them and their doctrine. They certainly suggest that they have been anointed, and that "Jehovah" chose them to be the one and only "faithful and discreet slave".  

Deceitfully, they have isolated themselves from all other anointed ones, not seeking them out, and  not bonding with them.  After all, these other anointed ones "do not necessarily have more holy spirit" than the GB.  So why "go there".    Literally, they have gated themselves out of "harm's" way.  They preserve their power and their fleshly desires to build and rule.  Phil 3:17-19

And this fulfills your definition of family in Christ? 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

You - are truly the one that twists words all the time.... and while you have a right to say the most vile things and the most untruthful and crazy  things on this forum to get a like from all haters of JWs, we do not for moment even consider your extrapolations as honest or truthful because all your arguments have gaping holes in them!

I gave scriptures proving that your organization follows the doctrine of men concerning baptism, and not that of Jesus Christ; and you are bristling at the word of God?  Are you stating that it is vile?   

 

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can we claim that every word, letter, and comma in the Bible is true? I don’t think so, b

We know exactly where the changes were made - there are at least 5 master copies of the holy Bible that were made from a comparison of all the extant manuscripts (they were compared with one another and all the anomalies noted),  so yes - unlike other religions this record (the bible) his the most scrutinized document on earth.... with the most enemies who wish to discredit it.  Other so-called documents have not been scrutinized to this extent.

So yes - the bible is truth and the very few differences does not affect the main theme of the bible or the personality and qualities of the One who wrote it.  The differences do not in any way shape or change the fundamental truths. Your biased viewpoint is showing up!  You want to give yourself leeway to be able to have all your own opinions and reject some of the truths contained in it?  john 17:17  " ¹⁷ Sanctify them by^[a] the truth; your word is truth.

50 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

ind it strange that some on here criticise @Witness for her words but you are happy to allow for your own

I can detect when she is exaggerating and twisting scriptures but she lies and slanders badly too!   So it is hard to  always  overlook that kind of behavior.  It does not matter if a good point is made, or a weak point - she will find a way to twist it.

Many opposers show this kind of hate-OCD..... I call it that this condition because I recognize the signs very quickly when a person is operating in that kind of mode.   The person can choose to be more reasonable .....but they fall back into the same old same old repetitive behavior as if they cannot help themselves.  Reasonableness has fled!

[Anna]

20 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But of course if we are both there 'on the other side' we will willingly rejoice together and probably laugh at all weve said about each other. 

I have heard it said (by elders too) that if we get to the other side, we may be surprised at who we see there and surprised at who we don't see there. Which goes to show that although we might have ideas, and judge others, we just don't know, only God does.