How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.

[TrueTomHarley]

16 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

Why are you [JWI] so entrenched into thinking your opinion matters?

Huh! This new guy doesn’t like JWI. Who would have thunk it?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 5/2/2022 at 7:31 PM, JW Insider said:

I hadn't talked about 1914 in a while, and although I have been critical of the teaching, I was trying to think of scriptural reasons that one might accept it as correct.

i think the only point of this topic is to 'try' to bring this forum back from the dead. 

I don't think you really believe one word of what you've written. But good try.

The truth seems to be that, No one on this Earth knows the true meanings / interpretations of the scriptures right now, OR, YHWH / Yeshua have 'sealed up the mouths' of the True Anointed remnant, until the time is right to supply the true information to those that deserve it (not the GB). 

However as you seem to find it fun, do continue  

[JW Insider]

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I did a quick skim and kind of assumed that it was a joke only because I can’t imagine JWI doing a 180. Was it not?

6 hours ago, Anna said:

@JW Insiderare you conducting a gullibility experiment? 

Not exactly a joke, TTH, and, yes, Anna, it was something a little more akin to an experiment. Not so much about gullibility, but about human nature and the way we protect our belief systems. But I think this "experiment" was inadvertently conducted already, especially between 1907 and 1917:

In 1917 Rutherford wrote the following in the October 15, 1917 Watchtower, p.317:

So, this was not my personal opinion, but was supposed to have once been an interpretation of prophecy handed down to Rutherford through the Holy Spirit -- or "made known to us by the Spirit" as the article says. I merely copied the same idea and numbers that the Watchtower used:

When you multiply the 11 years by 360, you get 3,960. 2045 BCE + 3,960 years brings us to the year 1915.

Although the Bible doesn't say both birds were young, the Spirit evidently made J.F.Rutherford assume both were one year old. It was actually C.T.Russell who printed this idea first in 1907, considering it credible, of course, but not trying to present it as absolute "inspired" truth. Here are some snippets from the March 1, 1907 Watchtower which included:

But even if Russell only published this idea presented as a "remarkable coincidence" it still took on a life of its own. If something got printed in the Watchtower and, of course, because C.T.Russell considered himself and the Watchtower as "God's mouthpiece" it was still taken very seriously. In fact, Brother Woodworth (co-author of The Finished Mystery) immediately (in 1907) added this idea to the Berean Bible Teachers' Manual as one of the: "Twenty Time Proofs -- That the Reign of Evil Will Cease and the Earthly Phase of the Kingdom of God Be Established in 1914-1915."   So it was there in time to bind into the KJV Bibles that the Watchtower Society produced in 1907 and the 1908 edition, too. According to the current Proclaimers book, p.606: ( https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101993037 )

Four years later, in 1907, the Bible Students Edition of the King James Version was published. The “Berean Bible Teachers’ Manual” was bound with it, as an appendix. This included concise comments on verses from all parts of the Bible, along with references to Watch Tower publications for fuller explanation.

These already contained Genesis 15:9 as one of those "PROOFS" of 1914/1915.

 

[JW Insider]

52 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

Whichever pathetic moderator posted this subliminal message is a sick individual. You smell!

No moderator added this. It's an artifact of your own editing. You evidently started out "i smell" when you were writing "i smell a troll . . ." But when you were editing your post to change the "i" to "I" and use highlighting and color, you had moved that original line too far down in the editing window, and forgot to edit it back out, because you probably couldn't see it.

I think I can edit people's posts, but I won't do it. I know I can delete a post entirely. Although, in the past, instead of deleting posts (when I have no request to delete) I merely move them to a new topic. But I think you would prefer this gets deleted. So, unless you say otherwise in the next few minutes, I will try to delete the whole post. To clean it all up, I think I should then clean up a few of the other remarks that were part of this, including one from Anna and perhaps others.

I think that most people who post here regularly are already aware that you ARE the same person behind the accounts: Allen Smith, Billy The Kid, NoisySrecko, Dmitar, Leander H McNeely, etc., etc., etc. There is no real question about that for many of us. But that fact has already been brought up elsewhere.

[TrueTomHarley]

Did I mention that, inspired by current events, I’m buying this forum?

All you people had better start kissing up—that’s all I can say.

[JW Insider]

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

inspired by current events, I’m buying this forum?

Is that the smell of "Musk"? I smell a muskrat.

[JW Insider]

6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Did I mention that, inspired by current events

Inspired by other current events (like Anne's designation of me as "prophet" 🤣) I decided to jump out of a fishing boat and walk on water. The water was so shallow that I couldn't decide whether to "row versus wade."

[Pudgy]

How much of your boat’s DRAFT is leaking?
 

[JW Insider]

Rutherford, as he did many times in the years 1916 to 1929, had to carefully acknowledge that Russell alone had been the one and only faithful and wise servant (faithful and discreet slave), and therefore the sole distributor of spiritual truths up until his death in 1916. Since Russell and/or the Watchtower was the one and only channel of truth in the minds of Watchtower readers, Rutherford had to be very careful when explaining how and why Russell got things wrong.

But it was all too obvious that Abraham had not inherited the land in 1915. Russell himself had already hinted that 1915 might be the new 1914. And after 1914, the Watchtower even began saying that the "end of the Gentile Times" was 1915, not 1914. After Russell's death in 1916, Rutherford even began emphasizing the "presence" of Jesus to a 40 year period that went, not from 1874 to 1914, but from 1878 to 1918, when Jesus would be fully "present" in his Temple. And by 1917, Rutherford had already gone ahead and started promoting a new date of 1925 for the "realized" end of the Gentile Times, i.e., when the Jewish (Hebrew) "ancient worthies" like Abraham would begin to rule, initially over fellow Jews who had migrated to Palestine. 

He very cleverly keeps the 3,960 years of the Genesis 15 "prophecy" intact, but he changes the starting date from 2045 BCE to 2035 BCE, ten years later. He uses the mention of something that appeared to happen 10 years later in Genesis 16:3 and says that this showed that the actual sacrifice of the animals had happened 10 years later, even though the context makes it appear that this had happened 10 years earlier. If Rutherford can redate the promise (covenant) to 10 years later, then this moves the 1915 date to 1925. Note especially the last two paragraphs below from the entire 1917 article on the topic.

 

[JW Insider]

18 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

How much of your boat’s DRAFT is leaking?

 I feel a draft, from fore to aft.

[I'm about to keel over laughing.]

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Inspired by other current events (like Anne's designation of me as "prophet" 🤣) I decided to jump out of a fishing boat and walk on water. The water was so shallow that I couldn't decide whether to "row versus wade."

Oh wow. Where is the old hen with her ‘ban’ button? 

[Pudgy]

4 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

Wrong, It's not on the actual post. Let's get one thing straight, I'm not going to be bullied by idiots!

As for that idiot tom, ban yourself. You want to have an intellectual confab, let's get to it. Otherwise, you're just a lingering old fart.

The fact that you demand that Tom (who is not JW Insider) ban himself, after declaring that you are not going to be bullied by idiots … when you are completely powerless to prevent it, makes it pretty clear who the idiot is here.

….. of course you don’t see that… or you would not have demonstrated it.