How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.

[Witness]

19 hours ago, Anna said:

Just because I expressed that what he said may fulfill the prophecy regarding Governments turning on organized religion doesn't mean I agree with his sentiments about Jesus, or any of his methods that him and his high profile buddies may employ to achieve their goals.  You on the other hand praise him and  say that he "got it" even though in reality he actually didn't "get it".

I said, “By your example, at least there are some in the world who get this.”  I wouldn’t call that giving praise to one particular individual.  There are exjws who “get it”.  They refuse to join another religious organization, but prefer to worship “in spirit and truth”.  As you stated, "Organized religion" has given itself such a bad name".  John 4:21-24

From your comment- "putting labels on religions such as "Muslim", "Christian" gets in the way of your prayers to Jesus .....organized religion detracts from Jesus...we've got to take Jesus out of the religious wrapping". This is IT! It's not that religion per say will be destroyed, but organized religion will be.” 

 Aren’t you being a little hypocritical?  Or maybe just blind (Matt 15:14) Truly, I believe you are the one who didn’t “get it”, otherwise you would question the existence of your own organized religion. You said organized religion will be destroyed.  How is it your religion is not included?  Instead, you say it would be impossible to accomplish any mission without organization, obviously condoning your own.  Certainly, you are speaking of religion organized by men, and not by God.  (Zech 4:6,7)

Jesus condemned the “organized” religion that the Wt. practices.  He was speaking to his disciples, chosen people of “Israel”.  In the Wt, there are “Gentiles” and spiritual “Jews”.  Undoubtedly, Jesus knew that his people would ignore his words said in John 4:21-24.

But Jesus called them to Himself and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers over the Gentiles (ELDERS) lord it over them, and their great ones (GB) exercise authority over them. ⁴³ Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. ⁴⁴ And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. ⁴⁵ For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Mark 4:42-45

The GB exercises authority over the elder body.  The elder body rules over all JWs - "Gentiles", but especially God’s “special possession” – His priesthood.  (1 Pet 2:5,9) But, forget what Jesus says, right?  This arrangement seems to be all okay with JWs.

However, according to the words of Jesus, it is not okay with God.  In the Wt’s case, “organized religion detracts from Jesus”.   Russel's quote on organization, was the most important group of words he could have ever uttered.  

 

 

[Witness]

6 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The amount of times the dates / years were changed 'to make it fit' with 1914. NOTE it's not about TRUTH, it's about making it fit their other lies. 

Perfect.  It is the lie that the Kingdom of God was born in the heavens; that Jesus began ruling as King in 1914; and that the Gentile times had ended.  

2 Thess 2:  Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, ("false apostles" 2 Cor 11:13) alleging that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.

The Gentile times have not ended.  Elders are spiritual "Gentiles" who rule over the anointed priests/"living stones" of God's dwelling/Temple.  They have trampled the Temple, the anointed of "Israel".  ( Dan 11:31,32,36,38; Mark 13:14; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2)

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

im hoping I misunderstood your post…

I may not have expressed myself well. It wouldn’t be the first time.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, WalterPrescott said:

However, I disagree with your point on organized religion.

There needs to be a limit in, what people confuse as gospel.

Jesus before the High Priest (Matthew 26:57–68 ; Mark 14:53–65 ;Luke 22:66–71)

Remember Allen, that God abandoned that system of worship, and Jesus fulfilled the law?  (Luke 13:35; Rom 8:4)

2 Cor 4:18 -  So we do not focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

[Arauna]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:54 PM, Thinking said:

Russell himself never claimed to be the one  and only faithful and discreet slave…

It does not matter if he was the slave or not. (With new light we know he was not - he was only the messenger before the faithful slave rendering service in the Parousia)  Mal 3: 1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies. ). 

At that time the knowledge of the Truth the brothers had was good enough for those who lived in this time period.  They had  learnt that there is no soul that goes out of you which is immortal; and many other truths which helped them to cling to Jehovah and the ransom; as they did not believe that Jesús is God. They already had most of the basic truths and were contemplating newer ones... and had discarded some wrong ones.  The resurrection they received will be based on what they knew at the time and Jehovah is the judge of who is righteous.  (Their work was also to expose the idolatry of Christendom because Babylon the Great was about to fall after 1914).

To highlight if the JWs were right or wrong at that time does not matter either; and to nitpick their leadership and how they came to be what they are today is not even important.  It is what we do today that is important.... and because humans are imperfect the 'slave' today can still make mistakes.... and they will be judged accordingly (Ps103 Jehovah keeps in mind that we are all flesh). 

We can only look at the history and pray we do not make the same mistakes ...... but that is as far as it goes.  Many will try to use this history to prove that we are a cult or a false religion - but compared with other Christian denominations - Jehovah needed a people who did not have the bloody history on their hands for supporting wars and recruiting  soldiers. He needed to form a nation that were trying to be obedient and were willing to learn - get up after mistakes - and go on. Since good leaders are always scarce, Jehovah had to work with those which were available - just as he does today.

 

 

[Arauna]

On 5/4/2022 at 7:23 PM, Anna said:

Anyway, most will know that I am skeptical about Governments turning on religion, especially in the United States where it plays such an integral part of society

Look at what is going on at universities and what is going on behind the scenes... most are leaving faith in a god ... even Christian religions have been infiltrated with woke LGBTQP philosophy!.  And it will be a 'decree' ..... coming from the WHO... So in a culture where all follow what the government says because only the government speaks the truth .... and  your social score will be affected if you do not go along with it ..... what do you think most people will do?.  No-one will leave their homes to go to church and false information (bible's and connected  literature) will be removed from internet - all religion.  What the government says will be the only truth - state worship only. So turning against religion is very possible!  And Jehovah will put it in their hearts at the right time!

Satan wants every human being compromised to only worship the state.  Remember the offer he made to Jesús?  Basically we all will face hunger, and the offer of state worship to be kept alive..... and be protected.  Jesus gave 3 biblical answers which declares that only Jehovah can give our daily bread, give true protection; and his future government is the solution to corrupt human government.

[Arauna]

22 hours ago, Thinking said:

The best advise I can give someone concerning Russell is get his writings and books etc

I would rather advise all of you to stock up on current truths....... be like the 5 virgins who had enough "holy spirit" to make their lamps shine the truth as far as possible in the present time..... we are running our of time to preach.

[Arauna]

18 hours ago, Anna said:

Of course now we say "Russel and his associates" which makes the slave composite, not one individual.

As you rightly later said: RUSSEL was the 'messenger' before the slave. The slave was appointed after Babylon the great fell and they were freed from imprisonment.

[Arauna]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

. @Araunawhere are you?

I was catching up today!  Thanks for missing me.  I gave you guys a little respite from my "sensure" - lol.

[Arauna]

13 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Remember that it is YESHUA that has ALL AUTHORITY

Please mention the Name of the one who gave that authority to Jesus!  It is not the patiently in your name that gives me a scratch - it is that you think there is no Truth on the entire earth except your truth. Have you started to acknowledge Jehovah as the father of Jesus? 

[Pudgy]

43 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I would rather advise all of you to stock up on current truths....... be like the 5 virgins who had enough "holy spirit" to make their lamps shine the truth as far as possible in the present time..... we are running our of time to preach.

There are many interpretations to that parable, but the point is there are many places to get illumination …. But will the intensity and duration be enough?

[TrueTomHarley]

16 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Maybe it's the word 'Patiently' because you lot are the opposite and you all want to run ahead with lies and wild ideas.

Or is it the word 'Truth' because you lot hate the word, or do not understand it's meaning.

Maybe it’s that “Patiently waiting for the Truth” is exactly the opposite of the course Jesus recommended:

““Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you;”  (Matt 7:7)

Though most modern Bibles have removed the next verse as spurious, some versions read:

”And some of his lazy disciples said, ‘Isn’t it enough to patiently wait?”