Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:58 AM, Thinking said:

Sometimes it’s like you are two different people

He is many different people, don't you already know that ?  

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

it would be rare for the family of a Bethelite to make a case against the entire Watchtower Society for a wrongful death. I can't imagine my own parents even thinking of such a thing if anything had happened to me there.

Actually I contacted your parents long ago. “As soon as that kid is out of our hair…..” they told me.

 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Penton ….somehow turned into a sloppy historian. 

His parents told me the same thing. 

[TrueTomHarley]

49 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

but that its purpose, when put into operation, will be to make all nations of earth one great family, working together for the common benefit in all the avenues of national life. Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble.

But then along came the Who and they all got fooled again.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The release of the Proclaimers book seemed to signal a shift from neglect of the past to cherishing ‘our spiritual heritage.’

It may have served to counter another trend as well. Just that time in greater world began to speak of ‘careers’ whereas in the past it had always been about ‘jobs.’ 

‘If they’re going to put on airs, then so will we’ I can imagine the subliminal thought process of those who went on reframe a stint at Bethel, as a job, but only as one aspect of a ‘career’ in Jehovah’s full time service.

[JW Insider]

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But then along came the Who and they all got fooled again.

The WHO may not be fooling around this time! But that's under another topic. (FWIW, my favorite of theirs was Behind Blue Eyes.)

[TrueTomHarley]

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The WHO may not be fooling around this time! But that's under another topic. (FWIW, my favorite of theirs was Behind Blue Eyes.)

The Who just may be my favorite group of all time. Lots of memorable tunes. Like

I went back to my mother
I said, "I'm crazy, Ma, help me"
She said, "I know how it feels, son
'Cause it runs in the family"

Just taking bout my g-g-generation. I can see for miles and miles an miles.

[Pudgy]

The qualification “in effect” makes the quote not a direct quote from the Watchtower,  but a comparison of similarity.(?) of Christendom’s sentiments and the Watchtower’s sentiments.

At least that is how I read it.

I suppose JWI will clarify.

I do know that the 9-1/2 years the Society was affiliated with the United Nations as an NGO, there were puff pieces in the Awake! Magazine about the United Nations.

 

What the NGO supporting articles stated was precisely fair and accurate, but the puffery was to fulfill their obligations to the UN to show they supported the IDEALS of the UN.

My guess is the articles by themselves were sent to the UN, and not the whole Awake!.

[Pudgy]

 

The problem with apostate literature is that the people that read it, the great majority, do not have the background or analytical skills that most of us here on this forum have.

When I read the book “ 30 Years a Watchtower Slave” l had sufficient experience and background to understand the fallacies of the assumptions and therefore the fallacies of the conclusions that the author drew.

For example, he recounted that before World War I that (paraphrased) “ … the teachings of the Watchtower were taking over all of Europe, and especially Germany … but FORTUNATELY World War I intervened …”.

WOW!

To me, that was encouraging that JWs did in fact have “The Truth”.

If the Watchtower had been successful, perhaps there would have been no World War I … but the author preferred the war.

[JW Insider]

40 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

Here we go, making a subtle insult, then you get upset when my rebuttal is loud. You people just can't help yourselves from having a good dissuasion without ruining it.

I don't get the insult at all. In fact, I think you also came to the same conclusion about the book. And who says anyone got upset because your rebuttal is "loud"? I don't even know what you mean by that, but I am certainly not upset by a rebuttal. That's what we are here for. You might be aware of things in this book by Persson that are wrong. And I'm sure that would be interesting to some persons here. Definitely it would be interesting to me, at least.

40 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

2 doesn't make many, but some.

Exactly. I'm glad we agree on this, too.

40 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

So, far, I haven't found good quality work from the 1000s of books I've read for my apostate research. I certainly don't endorse them, or sympathize with their distorted views. In many cases, even by witnesses themselves.

I've seen only a few apostate books, but I agree that they can be filled with distorted views. I'm curious as to whether you have any specific examples that show that B.W.Schulz' research is sloppy or distorted, by the way. To me he seems to agree with your own philosophy, that one should trace down all of the offshoots if possible, and the beliefs of all the people coming into or out of the organization. His books rarely reach into history much more recent than about 1890, so far, but you see the same philosophy on his website/blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com

40 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

Let me make myself clear, your obtuse response will lead to a harsh, negative response. You want to continue poking the Bear, that's your choice. Just don't get upset with my rebuttals. You began with your last reply.

That's not a a problem. Would be happy to hear what you have to say about the long quote you made from James Parkinson's The Bible Student Movement in the Days of C.T. Russell.

[Pudgy]

 

 

Walter:

I realize I am not talking about an apostate book, but which do you think has better survived the last 100 years …. The 20 or so books written by Russel and Rutherford, and others, circa 1914, which if taught now would be considered apostasy, or the writings of Edgar Rice Burroughs, circa 1914, who among about 20 or so books, wrote “Tarzan of the Apes”?

( a town North of Los Angeles was renamed Tarzana, California in honor of Edgar Rice Burroughs, and recently one of the most expensive movies ever made “John Carter” from his book “Princess of Mars”).

I await your promised harsh, negative response.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, WalterPrescott said:

You can also ask your friend TTH to send you a PDF.

For the life of me I do not understand why you are so harsh with regard to my books. They are 100% loyal, entirely devoted to defending the faith from attacks.  

I am not that bad Shultz who teams up with a non-believer. I am not that bad JWI who signals nonalignment with several current beliefs. 

I honestly don’t understand it. You have at least Tom Irregardless and Me. I know you do because I gave you a copy and at the time you were very gracious over it.

What changed?

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

I'm, I, referring to the book or your way of sarcasm about answering?

I honestly couldn't make sense of that. I didn't intend or see any sarcasm. We found something we agreed upon, which I think is great. Something about that must have troubled you so you began to make threats, indicating that no matter how I responded you were going to come back loud, harsh and negative. I honestly don't understand that reaction either.

3 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

If you have a habit of buying apostate and Witness books, then, you should have those books in your library. The Link to Advent Movement is the first.

I have one book by Carl Olof Jonsson, two by Raymond Franz, three by Rolf Furuli, and two by James Penton. I haven't heard enough about any of the others to know if they might be of any use. I purchased a CD full of about 200 old Second Advent and Seventh Day Adventists books on eBay several years ago. I set them up on a drive to make them searchable, but have found almost no use for them, except to check some things that Bruce Schulz had claimed. I did the same thing for a CD full of Latter Day Saint resources, which has only been of use several years ago when I took some visits by a couple of Mormon "elders." Fortunately, I also downloaded entire sites with good Bible Student archives, not realizing that a lot of these sites were going "off the air" as it were.

I'll look for your recommendation. I don't recall anything called "The Link to Advent Movement." But I'll try to read nearly anything, if it seems interesting enough.

I'll answer your comment about the February 15, 1919 Watch Tower in another post, because I think you quoted some very important portions.