Posts moved from a recent topic about a J.F.Rutherford book

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

What gets me is when we keep going on about obeying instructions in order to survive Armageddon. This weekends WT study mentioned it agaiin....comparing the GB to Joshuah and Zerubabel. (Otherwise the study was very good). "Sometimes God’s people received direction that did not appear to be practical from a human standpoint but turned out to be lifesaving". 
The WT gave a couple of current examples....just stopping short of mentioning getting vaccinated against covid (thank goodness).

Are we not putting too much emphasis on the organization being the saving power, in other words our salvation being dependent on instructions coming from imperfect men? Whereas salvation is clearly going to come from Jesus, and we may be anywhere doing anything when Jesus saves us. Or is the mark for survival from the secretaries ink horn contingent on having our backpack ready or hunkering down somewhere?? As if Jesus cannot save us uless we listen to these types of instructions. I always thought the criterion was dependent on pure worship. This whole life we live is a test of our loyalty to Jesus and Jehovah. Everything we do today and tomorrow, the choices we make with respect to pure worship is what places that mark on our foreheads. And after all these tests we encounter every day, then there will be another test to see how obedient we are to the GB?? Give me a break! Past Bible examples do show that there were certain procedures the people had to follow in order to survive, BUT the situation at Armageddon will be incomparable, it cannot be said to parallel any other situation before then. I don't know why we keep obsessing that it is the same. It's like regurgitating types and anti types again....drawing parallels where there are none.

WONDERFUL WORDS but when I say anything similar or if @Witness, or @Srecko Sostarsays so, then we get shot down for it. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

5 hours ago, Anna said:

What really irritates me though is this constant need to harp on about the reason to obey now .....the reason being that if we get used to obeying now,  it will mean our salvation in the future when we have to obey this one last instruction (whatever "impractical" thing that will be) to get saved. That is wrong. It's like a veiled threat. 

And you wonder why some are now onthe outside ? 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

4 hours ago, xero said:

But this poking around the septic tank of the organization is unhealthy and unwholesome.

Maybe some folks want to know the foundation that the JW Org is built on. Rock or sand ? 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Yes, I also heard that this was around 1989. That's because the January 1, 1989 Watchtower had just predicted that the new system would be within about 11 years.

"He was laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century."

This was a "necessary" belief based on the then-current understanding of "this generation."

Are you admitting here that the Watchtower / GB / JW org stated that Armageddon would happen by the year 2000 ?

A simple yes or no, please. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's human nature, I guess. If things go on the same, I expect the same kind of talk in 2025 or so, in preparation for a subliminal belief among us that the end must come by 2034

If this is the case then it would prove that your leaders have learnt nothing. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

Sometimes I wonder if Jehovah allows these things to see who will follow man and who will have worked on their faith hard enough to to see thru this

BUT, your GB state that 'God and Jesus trust the GB so all JWs must trust the GB'

So isn't that a contradiction ? Would God want the GB to say those words above, and then the GB give false inforamtion ? 

You JWs do not think it all through do you. 

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

7 hours ago, Anna said:

What really irritates me though is this constant need to harp on about the reason to obey now .....the reason being that if we get used to obeying now,  it will mean our salvation in the future when we have to obey this one last instruction (whatever "impractical" thing that will be) to get saved. That is wrong. It's like a veiled threat. 

And you wonder why some are now onthe outside?

Yes, I do wonder. Being irritated by something is no reason to go outside where there is chaos and where there are no answers. 

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You JWs do not think it all through do you.

Yes we do, we definitely think it all through.

[Witness]

15 hours ago, Anna said:

And after all these tests we encounter every day, then there will be another test to see how obedient we are to the GB?? Give me a break!

Dan 3:16-18; Isa 28:10; Acts 5:29; Gal 1:10; 2 Cor 11:20; Isa 2:22

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+3%3A16-18%3B+Isa+28%3A10%3B+Acts+5%3A29%3B+Gal+1%3A10%3B+2+Cor+11%3A20%3B+Isa+2%3A22&version=NIV

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

There seems to be a couple of points being brought out here. 

1. That from the time Rutherford took over, the doctrine became that the Organisation is the New Ark.

From this it seemed to evolve into "You have to be a baptised JW to be saved".  Baptised into that 'new ark' 

2. @Anna and possibly others, 'not happy with' the doctrine of 'always obey the GB's instructions through the Watchtower or Elders'. Obey without question. 

Which evolved into the GB saying that "God and Jesus trust the GB so therefore every JW must trust (and obey) the GB".

There was a third point concerning Armageddon and the yeat 2000, which @JW Insider didn't answer, but no matter.

Only point one seems relevant to topic and I thought JWI was going to move all other comments to a different topic, but i suoopse the other points have been discussed a million times before. 

WP makes some good points and seems sincere in his comments. Such a shame he is so aggresive with it all .

Peace and Christian love to all. 

[JW Insider]

I should have never started this discussion in the JW Open Club, and I was warned not to. I just started to move some posts that are not closely enough related to early Watchtower history, or which produced unrelated distractions from that topic. It's an imperfect process, since so many comments cover multiple topics.

If anyone believes their comments were germane to the original discussion, I'll move them back. There are still plenty of good and interesting points that have been moved over here, and I hope that doesn't mean the ideas will get lost in the shuffle.

[TrueTomHarley]

22 hours ago, Anna said:

Sometimes God’s people received direction that did not appear to be practical from a human standpoint but turned out to be lifesaving". 
The WT gave a couple of current examples.

So does the Bible, most notably putting the singers up front.

What’s the big deal? Having just viewed the video for the midweek meeting about pulling unitedly should disaster strike, I find it impossible to grumble about it. If someone wants to pull my bacon out of the fire, and train me to do the same for others, why would I interfere with that? You could just view these bits of advice as given to overcome the natural human tendency to squabble and go off in a hundred different directions in times of stress. Can you imagine the participants here all pulling together in times of chaos? 

Don’t overthink it. When the time comes if you find you can’t do something, don’t.

It’s a little like when the Babylon Bee guys pressed Elon Musk into whether he would confess Jesus and be saved. After dancing around a little, Elon said ‘if Jesus is into saving people, I have no problem with that. Sure, why not?’

Do the same kind of dance yourself.