The truth about Armageddon...

[Arauna]

27 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Satan’s army, with which he essays to conquer the world, i

It is a coalition of nations who come up against the Nation of Jehovah in the time of the end... as Ezekiel 38 so well describes.  People of all nations have been collected together in true worship to Jehovah but Gog of Magog devises an evil plan because it looks as if these people have no protection.  When this coalition of nations come up against Jehovah's people, Jehovah will step in to protect a great crowd  ho will survive Armageddon.

Like you, I have also looked at the names of Togarma, Tubal and Ross (Rus), Persia (Iran) and many of these countries who are (at present) part of the coalition of the King of the North (all with totalitarian regimes). 

We do not know who will further join the king of the North (India? some of those in africa and south america?) but we know that North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia are part of this new financial coalition...     We also know who are supporting the king of the South.  It is as if the entire world is now choosing sides. 

Russia has already started its march towards Jehovah's people on its own (as a single country), but soon there will be a whole coalition of nations together with it who want to take the spiritual spoil - take away all this pure worship. Will Russia and its allies lead this onslaught? - it seems like it .... but it is not a definite outcome.  We know that the UN (the image of the best or scarlet colored beast) will turn against ALL religion and then later, together with king of the North, UNITED against the people of Jehovah as Satan goes forth to finally attack pure worship.  Satan knows it is his deathblow to turn against Jehovah's people but he will be drawn out like a captive animal in iron hooks ........by Jehovah as the nations fulfill Jehovah's prophetic word.

I do detect that you divide the families of Noah into 3 distinct groups.  This is rather a simplistic view of what happened. While some of the nations can be tracked to the children of Noah and their offspring (many nations have a clear pathway from the children of Noah), one must still be careful to lump them together so simplistically. For 4 thousand years nations were taking slaves, going to war, displacing whole nations and murdering whole villages of peoples.  Some nations were assimilated by others. .... And while the language groups sometimes helps us to detect the origin of a nation (indo-european, sino group, kushites,  etc, a nation usually comprises many gene pools that were mingled - depending on who they fought in wars and how stable the geopolitical area was.  

[BroRando]

6 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

It doesn't matter who started the discussion. What should matter, how do you prove the points yourself, with the bible without having to rely on the organization's information, since those that oppose the organization will use that information to mislead. So, who else can be linked to the opinions and theories provided?

Can "google" be used effectively? In my experience, it cannot, since there is so much disinformation. We have to look at every possible avenue to prove someone is not representing the best interest of the bible.

Let's look at barns with respect to a topic you have a great passion for, Gog and Magog.

Persia stands in its proper place; but India, under the modifications of Greater and Lesser, is confusedly repeated at different points, while the river Indus is mentioned in the text as the Eastern boundary of Asia. To the North, the castle of Gog and Magog, an Arabian feature, crowns a vast range of mountains, within which, it is said, that the
Tartars had been imprisoned by Alexander the Great. The Caspian appears, with the bordering countries of Georgia, Hyrcania, and Albania; but these features stand nearly at the Northern boundary of the habitable earth.
Africa has a sea to the South, stated, however, to be inaccessible, on account of the intensity of the heat. The European countries stand in their due place, not even excepting Russia and Scandinavia, though some oversights are observable in the manner in which the two are connected together.” pp.654-655

Hasn't the organization mentioned Russia? What is the implication under barns?

Isaiah 25:2. For thou hast made This is supposed to be uttered by the Jews who should return from Babylon, and therefore refers to what would have been seen by them. In their time it would have occurred that God had made of the city an heap. p 649

Of a city, I suppose the whole scope of the passage requires us to understand this of Babylon. There has been, however, a great variety of interpretation of this passage. Grotius supposed that Samaria was intended. Calvin that the word is used collectively, and that various cities are intended. Piscator that Rome, the seat of antichrist, was intended. Jerome says that the Jews generally understand it of Rome. Aben Ezra and Kimchi, however, understand it to refer to many cities which they say will be destroyed in the times of Gog and Magog. Nearly all these opinions may be seen subjected to an examination, and shown to be unfounded, in Vitringa.

How about Godbey Commentary.

8. We see from this verse that Satan’s army, with which he essays to conquer the world, is made up of Gog and Magog. Now let us see who they are. In Noah’s family originated the trinity of races. Ham in Hebrew means black; Shem, red; and Japheth, white. Upon the subsidence of the Flood, Noah divided the world among his three sons, giving Ham Africa, Shem Asia, and Japheth Europe. Gog and Magog are only spoken of in this passage, <011001>Genesis 10th, and <263801>Ezekiel 38th. Gog means king, and Magog means the kingly people; i.e., the nobility. <011001>Genesis 10th notifies us that they are the children of Japheth, the ancestor of all the white people. In <263801>Ezekiel 38th they are elaborately mentioned as resident in Russia.

Is the organization the only Org to suggest Russia? I think not. This is how you prove how the organization is correct and in the right track, regardless if the aggressors believe it or not. The point is, do you believe in the Org and accept the ones that are feeding you, spiritual food at the proper time. That should be the theme for every participant that isn't an opponent.

I wasn't speaking about Gog and Magog since it is post millennial... what you're speaking about is actually about Gog of Magog. 

Gog of Magog in the Book of Ezekiel represents Satan's Entire Political system of things. It is Pre- Millennial. Once the Great Tribulation starts, Jesus separates the sheep and goats and then he turns his attention towards Satan's Entire Political system of things.

Satan's Earthly Organization has many facets and allies that work in its behalf to starve, maim, and kill anyone who refuses to receive its mark. "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead,  and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name." (Rev 13:16)

The head of this wicked body is the United Nations. It deceives mankind making the claim it can deliver peace, dignity and equality on a healthy planet. It constantly tries to conform itself into an angel of light, even though it is the one causing the chaos. "And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered." (Rev 13:8) This talking head by its cunning, is spewing bitter and poisonous propaganda worldwide since 1919 as the masses of humankind will be 'all too eager' to drink its Wormwood:

It has 17 Goals to Transform Our World by 2030 : "The Sustainable Development Goals are a call for action by all countries – poor, rich and middle-income – to promote prosperity while protecting the planet. They recognize that ending poverty must go hand-in-hand with strategies that build economic growth and address a range of social needs including education, health, social protection, and job opportunities, while tackling climate change and environmental protection."

[BroRando]

7 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

How about Gray's Concise bible commentary.

The seventh event is the loosing of Satan at the close of the Millenium and the doom of Gog and Magog (vv. 7-9). Here Satan is again seen (this time in his own person) at the head of a final effort to overthrow the kingdom of God on earth. In the Millennial age sin still will be in the hearts of men except as they are regenerated, and Satan will find good soil to work in when his liberty is restored. The identity of Gog and Magog is not revealed, but their purpose is clearly indicated in verse 9. The eighth event is the doom of Satan (v. 10) who, being cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, is not to be conceived of as then reigning in hell. This idea, borrowed from Milton, is not in the Bible. The ninth event is the doom of the unbelieving dead and the last judgment (vv. 11-15).

There just needs to be a hint of commonality to encourage further study as a student of the bible.

Intestingly enough you are correct on this part. Since Satan's Entire Political system of things of earhly governments have been brought to nothing. 

The identity of Gog and Magog has been identified almost two thousand years ago, it's prophecy coming events written down.

Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, ⁸  and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

Why not study it further to see if you can discern what it means?

[Witness]

3 hours ago, BroRando said:

The identity of Gog and Magog has been identified almost two thousand years ago, it's prophecy coming events written down.

Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, ⁸  and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

Why not study it further to see if you can discern what it means?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't deliberately leave out the next scripture:

"And they went out over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Look and read!  After Armageddon, how can the "saints" who are the anointed, be surrounded by Satan and his army?  How can the "beloved city" be surrounded when Jesus rules with his anointed, in the spiritual Temple of God?

What is the beloved city of God? In the Kingdom, it will be complete.  It is New Jerusalem which is the habitation of God's spirit, Jesus, and the sealed "144,000".  

Look at that powerhouse.  DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT AFTER ARMAGEDDON, SATAN HAS MORE POWER THAN GOD AND CHRIST, AND CAN SURROUND THE SPIRITUAL,  NEW JERUSALEM?

 Rev 21 - "And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendour into it."

This is the glorious city that you say Satan and his army will surround after a thousand years when Christ is ruling with his sealed anointed "144,000". This is the city that you say Satan will DECEIVE in order to surround them.  (Rev 20:8) You are giving Satan more power than God and Jesus.  You are saying not only will God and Jesus DESTROY every human on this earth EXCEPT FOR JWS, but then tell us that after such a global destruction BY GOD AND JESUS,  SATAN will arise once again - AND HIS TARGET IS THE ANOINTED SAINTS.

NO!  Satan is the destroyer (John 10:10; 1 Cor 10:9,10) AND he uses DECEIT to try and destroy the anointed in the last days BEFORE THE COMPLETION OF ARMAGEDDON. (Rev 12:13,15;16:13-16)  You and all JWs who believe they are SAFE in the organization and who can do no wrong in the sight of God (1 Thess 5:3)  are being deceived TODAY, by false prophets/christs.  (Matt 24:4,5,24,25; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 Tim 4:1)

Your Gog of Magog/Gog and Magog,  is where the "saints" are surrounded RIGHT THIS MINUTE IN THE ORGANIZATION.  (Rev 13:1,2,5-7;11,12)

They are under the rule of "Gentiles" - God's chosen people are under the rule of men not anointed.  They are "foreigners" residing with "Israel".   All JWs not anointed are "Gentiles".  

"be sure to appoint over you a king the Lord your God chooses. He must be from among your fellow Israelites. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not an Israelite."  Deut 17:15

Do you think that law of God is obsolete?  Today's "Israel" are the anointed priests of the Temple of God?  (1 Cor 3:16)   But elders not anointed RULE OVER THEM. No where in the word of God can anyone replace the priesthood.  This explains the actions of Gog and Magog present over the anointed.  The Beast from the Sea is the MAN OF LAWLESSNESS - THE SAME ENTITY THAT HAS TAKEN THE ANOINTED "CAPTIVE".  Col 2:8; Rev 13:10,18; 16:13-16

2 Thess 2:1-4- "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits  as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

This is describing the replacement of the "living stones" of God's temple in the anointed.  1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22  It is an abomination to God.  Ezek 44:6-9

I must have repeated the  horrendous words of the Wt, a hundred times by now:

"Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth.    

Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!"  wt 02/8/1

Okay, you want a war on your hands?  YOU GOT IT!  THIS, IS ARMAGEDDON, A WAR OF TRUTH AGAINST LIES.

"And you and your sons with you will attend to your priesthood for everything at the altar, and within the veil, and you will serve. I have given your priesthood to you as a gift service, and the foreigner that comes near will be put to death."  Num 18:7

Not only has the elder body replaced the priesthood, they rule over them.

 

 

 

 

[Chioke Lin]

6 hours ago, BroRando said:

I wasn't speaking about Gog and Magog since it is post millennial... what you're speaking about is actually about Gog of Magog. 

Did I mention you were? You seem to have a hard time reading my post. I made an example on a subject you have a passion for, which is Gog and Magog.

 

[Chioke Lin]

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is a coalition of nations who come up against the Nation of Jehovah in the time of the end... as Ezekiel 38 so well describes.  People of all nations have been collected together in true worship to Jehovah but Gog of Magog devises an evil plan because it looks as if these people have no protection.  When this coalition of nations come up against Jehovah's people, Jehovah will step in to protect a great crowd  ho will survive Armageddon.

Is everyone here suggesting that I'm suggesting something different? Why are your words better than mine? I just make the discussion more factual with the organization's view by means of other publications that are not the Org's. The opposition doesn't care for the Org's view.

[Chioke Lin]

6 hours ago, BroRando said:

Intestingly enough you are correct on this part. Since Satan's Entire Political system of things of earhly governments have been brought to nothing. 

Glad you can accept this. I have been correct on many parts. It appears, you have not been paying attention. Being humble is an assist, not a crime.

[Chioke Lin]

6 hours ago, BroRando said:

Why not study it further to see if you can discern what it means?

I would appreciate it better, if you studied it further to discern what it's actually referring to.

[Chioke Lin]

11 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

Religion’s divisive effect on mankind is no reflection on Jehovah God and his Word. Rather, it is an indictment of religions that promote man-made schemes for unity instead of upholding God’s purpose. Jesus called the religious leaders of his day “hypocrites” and said to them: “Isaiah aptly prophesied about you, when he said, ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’

How can you convince others that we are not doing the same? In What I can see, that question has not been answered by being affective with the bible.

[Chioke Lin]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't deliberately leave out the next scripture:

"And they went out over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

There seems to be some misleading words with this interpretation of the bible. 

⁹ They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

This passage is referring to the people of the world, not the saints in heaven. Remember, after the 1000 years, God's people will have become Holy, perfect. So, whatever Holy temple that will be erected on earth, that will be the city God loves. Now what does the lexicon mean, "belonging to God saints?" God's people, believers. Those that survived Armageddon, and those that were resurrected and accepted God on earth, not in heaven. That's the understanding of "Belonging to."

(1TH 3.13); as human beings belonging to God saints, God's people, believers (AC 9.13); (b) neuter τὸ ἅγιον what is holy, what is dedicated to God (MT 7.6); as a place dedicated to God sanctuary, holy place (HE 9.1); plural ἅγια holy place, (outer) sanctuary (HE 9.2); ἅγια ἁγίων most sacred place, inner sanctuary, very holy place (HE 9.3)

How can we confirm that? By the passage on verse 8.

⁸ and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

There's no mention of heaven, and the heavenly saints on earth. Even with that misleading interpretation of the bible, KJV, ESV, NAS, etc, the passage indicated, "breadth of the earth" which has nothing to do with heaven.

[BroRando]

50 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Did I mention you were? You seem to have a hard time reading my post. I made an example on a subject you have a passion for, which is Gog and Magog.

 

At the end of the 1,000 years, scriptures show that Gog of Magog has ALREADY been destroyed as stated earlier BEFORE Paradise on Earth can begin... it is Satan's Entire Political system of things of earhly governments.. (Wild Beast)  

 

Revelation 20:10

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[Arauna]

31 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

How can you convince others that we are not doing the same? In

No, we do not do the same. We do not promote man-made schemes.... which is what Peter referred to. He also mentioned the religious leaders of Jesus'day, who taught commands of men as doctrines.  With this I will remind you of the basic teachings such as the trinity and immortality of the soul which are just two of the most false doctrines taught by christendom..