Are you experiencing great tribulation?

[BroRando]

Are you experiencing great tribulation?

 

Have you ever experienced a tribulation that was so great and horrendous, that you thought you were just going to die? Well, you're not the only one. The whole world is going through some sort of tribulation in one way or another, and I am sure that you can attest to that. There is good news, this time period doesn't last forever, it does and will come to an end.

Charles Taze Russell was a youth searching for the truth for a better life. He literally was walking by a building and heard singing in the basement which attracted his attention. He soon found out in his teenage years that the teachings of his religion was very different what the Bible teaches. Through Bible Study, he continued his studies undaunted to search for the answers to his questions. He became a student of prophesy and shared his findings with those who would listen. His forte' was learning about the End of the Gentile times would come about and looked forward to the rule of God's Kingdom.

Brother Russell wrote: "'The Earth Abideth Forever' Christ will not return to Earth as a Man - Present Year Believed to Mark Great Change of Dispensation, but World May not discern Immediate Difference." The Bible Students Monthly, January, 1914.

Since Christ will not return to Earth as a Man, Brother Russell wrote: "Our Lord, in describing His Second Presence, clearly indicated that it would be unnoticed by the world until the cataclysm of trouble should come. Thus He likened the earlier days of His presence to that period before the Flood, when the world, unconscious of the impending catastrophe, continued to build, eat and drink as usual, and knew not. So, says the Master, it will be in the end of this Age. Eating, drinking, building, planting and marrying will proceed as usual; and the world will not know that they are in the PRESENCE of the Son of Man."

According to Bible Prophecy, 1914 marked great change of dispensation. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary - Dispensation means a general state or ordering of things specifically : a system of revealed (see REVEAL entry 1 sense 1) commands and promises regulating human affairs.

• to make known through divine inspiration
• to make (something secret or hidden) publicly or generally known reveal a secret
• to open up to view : DISPLAY the uncurtained window revealed a cluttered room

He continues, "The Bible nowhere tells that Jesus took the human nature to keep it forever, and to return with it to Heaven, where it would be completely out of order and out of place. The Bible teaches, on the contrary, that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50); and that Jesus was made flesh merely 'that He, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man' (Heb 2:9) and that after doing this work He would "ascend up where He was before." (John 6:62) The great Day of Trouble, noted throughout the Scriptures as the Time of Trouble such as never was since there was a nation, will come upon them suddenly."

Brother Russell also mentions that this time of trouble could last a certain amount of time as in the time of Noah. Then he mentions, "Then, later on, will come the Epiphania; that is to say, the revelation, or manifestation, of the present One. This will not be a manifestation in the flesh, but in a great Time of Trouble, symbolically represented as fire, as when we read, "He shall be revealed in flaming fire, taking vengeance." -- 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. (Matthew 24:21)

Look at the picture above and read the scripture of (Matthew 24:21) that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ warned us about. This time period began in 1914 but remember, these days we are experiencing now, do not last forever, "In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (Matthew 24:22) Look with your mind's eye of reasoning what you are experiencing. You're not alone!

The Bible tells us, "Jehovah is close to the brokenhearted; He saves those who are crushed in spirit." (Pslams 34:18) Also, we have a helper in His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ whom states, "Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you." (Mat 11:28)

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1 (800) 273-8255

[Matthew9969]

Being raised Jehovah's witness was great tribulation.

[Witness]

On 1/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, BroRando said:

Since Christ will not return to Earth as a Man

Where does it say that Christ, the firstborn of a new creation, won’t return to earth as a man?  He showed us that he can appear both in human form, and we know he is in the spiritual form now. 

Mark 16 chapter 16; Luke chapter 24; John chapter 21

Jesus said to Nathanael,

¹ He said to him, “Most certainly, I tell you all, hereafter you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Is all of this ascending and descending by God’s angel/messengers taking place only in heaven? 

Jacob’s dream:

¹² He dreamed and saw a stairway set upon the EARTH, and its top reached to heaven. Behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it”  Gen 28:12

This has been promised since Genesis.  This is the same stairway that Jesus described to Nathaneal, set on the earth and the top in the "heavens".  Jesus will walk the earth with his angels/messengers/sealed anointed ones.  These anointed priests ARE the “angels”/messengers. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9)

 

For to which of the angels did he say at any time,

“You are my Son.
    Today I have become your father?”

and again,

“I will be to him a Father,
    and he will be to me a Son?”

⁶ When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”

⁷ Of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels winds,
    and his servants a flame of fire.”

⁸ But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.
    The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your Kingdom.
⁹ You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity;
    therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”

¹⁰ And,

“You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth.
    The heavens are the works of your hands.
¹¹ They will perish, but you continue.
    They all will grow old like a garment does.
¹² You will roll them up like a mantle,
    and they will be changed;
    but you are the same.
    Your years won’t fail.”

¹³ But which of the angels has he told at any time,

“Sit at my right hand,
    until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?”

¹⁴ Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?  Hebrews 1

Do you see that the “angels” are “serving spirits” in the manner of a priesthood/kings who serve the rest of God’s children on the earth – those who inherit salvation? It’s not going to be unanointed elders who will walk the earth as “princes” under Christ. That identity was robbed from the priesthood.   It will be the called, chosen and faithful sealed anointed ones. (Rev 17:14) That has been God’s plan since Genesis.  This makes the 140 year old plans of the Watchtower, a futile, short-lived lie. (Rev 19:20; 21:8)

 

Rev 5:9,10 – “ Now when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders (NO, NOT THE LITERAL ELDERS OF THE WATCHTOWER) fell down before the Lamb, each one having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. ⁹ THEY (the "24 elders") sang a new song, saying,

“You are worthy to take the book
    and to open its seals:
for you were killed,
    and bought us for God with your blood
    out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,
¹⁰ AND MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS TO OUR GOD,
    AND WE WILL REIGN ON THE EARTH”

1 Pet 2:5,9

It is the priesthood who are the "24 elders" and who are singing the song, not Watchtower's elders.   

So, if you believe that Christ won’t return to the earth, well, that is a sign of the presence of the “Antichrist” – “against Christ”.

1 John 4:3 –  "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

The Greek word for “come” can mean “come or go”.  “to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning”

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2064/kjv/tr/0-1/

So the scriptural evidence explains that Jesus and his Bride/”144,000” will not only be in heaven, but on the earth as well.  2 Cor 5:17

Here, we see "New Jerusalem", (Gal 4:26) the Temple (1 Cor 3:16) which includes Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone, and his "144,000" Bride of anointed ones, (Eph 2:20-22) coming down from heaven, onto the earth to be with mankind.  

Rev 21:  "I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband. 3 I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling (1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22) is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God."

There's that stairway again.  God's word is consistent in truth.  Watchtower is consistent in lies.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BroRando]

59 minutes ago, Witness said:

For to which of the angels did he say at any time,

“You are my Son.
    Today I have become your father?”

and again,

“I will be to him a Father,
    and he will be to me a Son?”

Christ is the angel called by Jehovah and made him high priest and said to him “You are my Son. Today I have become your father.”

 

• 4 Nobody takes this honor on himself, but he is called by God, just like Aaron was. 5 So also Christ didn’t glorify himself to be made a high priest, but it was he who said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father.”

 

5Of all my sons (for Yahweh has given me many sons), he has chosen Solomon my son to sit on the throne of Yahweh’s kingdom over Israel. 6He said to me, ‘Solomon, your son, shall build my house and my courts; for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father. 7I will establish his kingdom forever if he continues to do my commandments and my ordinances, as it is today.’

 

Notice that Solomon sits of on God's throne which actually means God is his throne... not the Solomon is God's throne.

 

Psalm 2:7

Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father.

Acts 13:33

God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’

 

59 minutes ago, Witness said:

When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”

The Hebrew word that was mistranslation worship actually means obeisance.  This English word (from the same Latin root as “obey” and “obedience”)  You may want to stop and ask yourself, who are the ones told and commanded to obey Christ?

• Answer: All the angels of God

 

 

Hebrews 1:8

But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

Hebrews 1:9

You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

Psalm 45:6, 7

 ⁶  God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness. ⁷  You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

[Witness]

14 hours ago, BroRando said:

The Hebrew word that was mistranslation worship actually means obeisance. 

Most of what you’ve written doesn’t make much sense, at least to me. But, if you’re going translate the word “worship” in relationship to Jesus Christ, to “obeisance”,  then let’s use the word "obeisance" where the Greek word is found in these instances also.

Luke 4:7 - And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore if You worship before me give me obeisance , it shall all be Yours.”

Luke 4:8 -  Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship give obeisance to the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

John 4:23 - But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers those who do obeisance will worship do obeisance to the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers those who do obeisance to Him.

John 4:24 - God is spirit, and those who worship do obeisance to Him must worship  do obeisance in spirit and truth.

1 Cor 14:25 - the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship give obeisance to God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Rev 22:9 - But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book.  Worship Give obeisance to God.”

Strong’s G4352 - proskynéō,  “prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship.”

"Obeisance" is the choice of men who have replaced the position of Jesus Christ; thus, the "antichrist".  They prefer the word "worship" ("adore") to be applied to them.  

 

[Witness]

14 hours ago, BroRando said:

Psalm 45:6, 7

 ⁶  God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness. ⁷  You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

That is a very confusing translation.

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of joy above Your fellows.  Ps 45:6,7

 

But of the Son He says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.  Heb 1:8

[BroRando]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Most of what you’ve written doesn’t make much sense, at least to me. But, if you’re going translate the word “worship” in relationship to Jesus Christ, to “obeisance”,  then let’s use the word "obeisance" where the Greek word is found in these instances also.

Here you see another mis-use of the word of worship in also the Hebrew Scripture.

And he said, Nay; but as prince of the host of Jehovah am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? Joshua 5:14 ASV

Joshua is a faithful servant of Jehovah and would not engage in worshipping the Prince of Jehovah's Host for he the chief angel. Angel worship is forbidden. Therefore, the Hebrew and Greek word for worship should be taken into context such as the scripture below, the truth is out there and Jehovah Witnesses have it.

And He saith, 'No, for I am Prince of Jehovah's host; now I have come;' and Joshua falleth on his face to the earth, and doth obeisance, and saith to Him, 'What is my Lord speaking unto His servant?' Joshua 5:14 YLT

Remember you never knew that the Jewish Passover was celebrated during twilight until one of Jehovah's Witnesses educated you on the matter and that the Memorial of Christ is commemorated after Sunset. A big difference of which I could have allowed you to walk blindly into the fiery pit. Your time for changing course is running out.

[BroRando]

52 minutes ago, Witness said:

That is a very confusing translation.

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of joy above Your fellows.  Ps 45:6,7

 

But of the Son He says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.  Heb 1:8

It's only confusing to you. David and Solomon both sat on God's throne.  Are they God? No, rather his Representative as in the case of Jesus Christ.

If want to use error to justify your belief that Jesus is God, you have a whole lot more scriptures to manipulate.  Take Hebrews 1:9 for instance

15 hours ago, BroRando said:

Hebrews 1:9

You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

Your claim is that Jesus is God and anointed someone... If that was true, then who did Jesus anoint??

 

[Witness]

5 hours ago, BroRando said:

Here you see another mis-use of the word of worship in also the Hebrew Scripture.

And he said, Nay; but as prince of the host of Jehovah am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? Joshua 5:14 ASV

The word in Joshua is

שָׁחָה shâchâh, shaw-khaw'; a primitive root; to depress, i.e. prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God):—bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

Remember the word you said that was “mistranslated” in Heb 1:6 is

Strong’s G4352 - proskynéō,  “prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship.”

In the Greek scriptures, Wt. uses “obeisance” in connection with Jesus because the word seems to lessen the impact of giving “worship”.  We may do obeisance to a worldly king, but JWs cannot comprehend that the Son of God deserves more than their interpretation of worship.  And although you exalt the false prophet Russell’s teachings, those early Bible Students did worship Christ.  But with the exaltation of a president and subsequently, a governing body, Jesus’ role was diminished. Men have exalted themselves above heaven.  (Dan 8:11; Isa 14:13-14)

That “angel” in your scripture was the Logos, Jesus Christ.  How sad that you and all JWs have demeaned the role of the only begotten Son of God, who chose to come to earth to save a people whom he created, (John 1:3; Col 1:16);  and suffered the most cruel death of any man who has walked this earth, giving up his life for those who turn to God and desire to obey Him and the teachings of Christ.  Jesus deserves our worship, and it is pointed out that he IS worshiped in Revelation 5:13-14 

 ^“I heard every created thing which is in heaven, on the earth, under the earth, on the sea, and everything in them, saying, “To Him who sits on the throne (God), and to the Lamb (Jesus) be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion, forever and ever! Amen!” ¹⁴ The four living creatures said, “Amen!” Then the elders fell down and worshiped.

When you see him coming in his glory, and face him in judgment, you too will wish you had not listened to stiff-necked leaders and their lies, and had given him the worship and attention to his word, that God expect us to give him.  I am so disgusted at the Wt’s continual trampling on the Son of God, where His people, the anointed are found. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Col 2:8; Rev 13:5-7,10)  And this people of “Israel” are also trampled down by “Gentile”/elders who have  robbed them of their position as a priesthood.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 9:1-4, 11:1-3)  Whatever is done to those members of Christ’s body, it is done to Christ.  If these anointed “living stones” are rejected, so is Christ, the chief cornerstone of the spiritual Temple of God.  (Dan 8:13; 11:36; Luke 10:16)  It is the elder body who is honored and exalted over God's chosen ones.  (Eccl 10:5-7)

“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, ²⁷ but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. ²⁸ Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. ²⁹ Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? ³⁰ For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” ³¹ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

5 hours ago, BroRando said:

Remember you never knew that the Jewish Passover was celebrated during twilight until one of Jehovah's Witnesses educated you on the matter and that the Memorial of Christ is commemorated after Sunset.

 

Where did Watchtower learn about the dates of Passover?  From the Jews, it is common knowledge.  And, this organization “celebrates” the memorial of Christ’s death on the wrong night anyway. 

 

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

Your claim is that Jesus is God and anointed someone... If that was true, then who did Jesus anoint??

Jesus is not the Almighty God, but he is a Mighty God.  Isa 9:6.

The anointing:  “Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.”  Rom 5:5

"Now it is God who strengthens us together with you in Christ, and who has anointed us. He has also put his seal on us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a down payment."  2 Cor 1:21-22

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.   What you have heard from the beginning is to remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he himself made to us: eternal life.

26 I have written these things to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, his anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie; just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:20,25-27

 

 

[BroRando]

@Witness

Hebrews 1:9

You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

To claim that Jesus is not the one anointed by Jehovah in this scripture shows your lack of understanding.  

Interesting how none of the Apostles worshipped Jesus... and they even greeted one another with this greeting:

• Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

There's a reason why you have been removed from our congregations. You are well aware by now that you are being block by the angels who are the reapers from re-entry.

It would be like you trying to eat of the tree of life after you were excused. Hate the message not the messenger.

 

 

[Witness]

49 minutes ago, BroRando said:

To claim that Jesus is not the one anointed by Jehovah in this scripture shows your lack of understanding.  

I never did claim that. Why would I?  It is clear in God's word  that he is the Anointed One.  In fact, I am the one who brought scriptures to attention here.  Why do you lie?

49 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Interesting how none of the Apostles worshipped Jesus... and they even greeted one another with this greeting:

Do you remember what John said about the activities of Jesus on this earth?  

"And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if every one of them were written down, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written."  John 21:25

You can't make that claim when we don't know everything that the apostles experienced, especially the apostle Paul who was knocked to the ground by the blinding light of Christ.  Acts chapter 9.  Besides, he is one of the "24 elders" in Revelation 5:13-14 who bow down in worship to the Almighty God and to the Lamb.  

49 minutes ago, BroRando said:

There's a reason why you have been removed from our congregations. You are well aware by now that you are being block by the angels who are the reapers from re-entry.

I rejected organization, 1914, and the power of a wicked slave over the anointed body of Christ. Their "Beast"/spirit-directed organization disfellowships/"kills" any who stand up to their idol. John 16:2; Rev 13:15. 

The reason why you are still in, is because you are falling in line with all the other false prophets that this organization has bred.  I am sorry, truly sorry for you inability to understand. 

 

[BroRando]

6 minutes ago, Witness said:

It is clear in God's that he is the Anointed One. 

The scales on your eyes are so thick that when you try to slander, you speak gibberish.

24 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Hebrews 1:9

You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”