Revelation 11 and 12

[Guest]

When there is a prophetic parallel, it is God who makes the connection.

 

The number of fish in the net and the number of camels in the train and the number of men who came to visit Job don't have any prophetic parallel because God's Word doesn't say they are prophetic parallels. The tabernacle and Sarah/Hagar and Elijah served as prophetic parallels because Jehovah God had written in His Word that they were.

 

People like to make up stuff and say "so-and-so is Elijah" or "this group is the Elijah class" but Jehovah's Word doesn't say that. Jehovah's Word says John the Baptist was Elijah in a prophetic way. 

 

You can make up prophetic parallels that say "Bethel is like the priesthood, you should tithe to support it" or "building Kingdom Halls and complexes is like building the temple, you should volunteer to support it" but that's not what the Bible says. Jesus said "you are all brothers" and "he who does not work should not eat" and "anyone who does not support his family is worse than someone without faith." The Bible does not support abandoning your family members so you can go "volunteer" to cater to the needs of strangers. You give from what you have, not from what you do not have. How many men left their wives to go to "school"? How many grown children left their elderly parents with others to go "serve Bethel"? Jehovah did not give those directions.

 

Timothy's mother wasn't a widow as portrayed in the Watchtower drama. If she was, then why did Paul give Timothy the counsel he did about taking care of family? "Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith." It's the same as regards the current disfellowshipping doctrine. How can you provide the social and emotional needs of your family if you are shunning them? Jehovah did not direct such an anti-Christ doctrine.

 

The Law was a shadow of the things to come, the things about the Christ. The Law was not a shadow of the things about disfellowshipping. Christ fulfilled the Law. Christ did not disfellowship anyone. Christ was the one who was disfellowshipped.

 

The ones who disfellowshipped him did not follow the law. They were the lawless ones.

 

Let Jehovah's Name Be Sanctified.

[Moise Racette]

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

How many Bible students were there on earth in 1914 in the congregations?

 

How many Jehovah's Witnesses are there on earth today in the congregations?

Does it matter? This poster contradictions are becoming erratic.

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Do you really think those bad behaviors listed in 2 Timothy 3 were as prevalent back then as today? Guns and bombs and shootings at the Kingdom Halls by members of the congregation? Kids getting raped for years by elders while other video taped it? You really think it was that bad in 1914 in the congregations? 

The commentator is now confusing the issue about 1914 and that of what has happened after 1914 as a clear sign we live in the last days by the Watchtower standards of understanding scripture after the end of the gentile times.

Yet, the poster fails to see the harsh reality of what happened in the first century churches and Christ.

This poster is now claiming to be an apostate activist.

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The folly of those men who claim "1914!" has been shown. "Last days" is what the verse says, not "last years and years". Do the math. 

Incoherent thought and ideology.

Once again, PROVE 1914 is not tied to world events. 

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Jehovah's Witnesses are the organization Jehovah is using. He has allowed His Name to be on it. But the many false doctrines and anti-Christ teachings and behaviors will be removed.

More contradiction by personal opinion. However, this poster continues to use God's name in vain, thus making it blasphemous to that contradictory.

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

(As regards "disfellowshipping", in a family it is not standard operating procedure to "execute" or "drive out of the house" ones brothers and sisters. Only the parents have that authority.

In my personal experience, I NEVER saw anyone execute or drive someone from a home by word of an Elder. If parents told a child to leave because of being drunkard, drug addicts, wanting to bring in their lovers home, then those parents exercised their moral obligation as true Christians. If they applied scripture, then more so.

Therefore, this poster should not act sanctimonious when the poster has none to begin with. 

I have also experienced that with none-witness families. They include kicking out their child for being GAY!! What is this poster's excuse for that worldly action?

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The judges in the Christian congregation do not have authority to drive off or socially "execute" anyone.

This comment puzzles me. Is the poster suggesting the Watchtower is somehow committing social murder? I will advise the poster to be very careful with its words from now on.

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Because Russell disobeyed and tried to calculate that date, he was caught in a trap of the Devil that the organization has been stuck in ever since. Russell was not a bad man.

That was the theme for that era. To get an understanding about the gentile times, and how closer humanity was to judgement day. I guess at some point this poster will have an issue with @BroRando posts. 

1 hour ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The verse in 2 John about "not saying a greeting" is worded differently in the Kingdom Interlinear. It means not to encourage someone in their wrongdoing. The translators of the NWT were trying to support their disfellowshipping doctrine which was already in place when the NWT was made. You can have organization without disfellowshipping.

Is this poster an expert in linguistics? How about being proficient? Perhaps knowledgeable in linguistics.

Now recite the chapter, and verse in John as a reference point.

[Guest]

"At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.  Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved."

 

The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God. "For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectuals I will reject." All the Gilead schools and theological schools and school schools don't make anybody wise in Jehovah's eyes. Scribes are scribes. Pharisees are Pharisees. Jesus said little children could understand God's Word with Jehovah's blessing.  Let Jehovah's Word speak.

 

"“Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”  

 

He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."

 

"While they were listening to these things, he told another illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they thought that the Kingdom of God was going to appear instantly."

 

"But we were hoping that this man was the one who was going to deliver Israel."

 

It is not uncommon for faithful ones to misunderstand scripture.

 

Did the kingdom come in 1914? 

 

Jesus disciples in the first century wanted to know when the kingdom come.

 

"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

 

What did Jesus say? "1914"? Nope. This is what he said:

 

"“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father...Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."

 

If the date could be calculated ahead of time, then Jesus would have told them. Jesus knows the scriptures better than anybody. If Jesus knew the day and the hour by means of some prophetic formula from twisting together unrelated parts of the Bible and making a prophetic parallel that doesn't really exist, would he have said "nobody knows, neither the angels nor the Son"? 

 

Why does it matter that 1914 isn't the date? Because if the disciples are not keeping on the watch for the kingdom, then they don't understand the rest of the scriptures that are related. If the disciples think Jesus already took the throne and Satan is already cast down, then the disciples will be asleep and not prepared for what is to come.

 

The men taking the lead in the organization are teaching that the Devil is already cast down, and that Jesus already took the throne and cleaned the congregation, and that is why they act like kings now. They act like they have divine backing for everything. They are asleep. They do have authorization to be brothers, but not to be kings. They have been allowed to believe the lie, and they are behaving as lawless ones. They are waiting for the nations to say peace and security, but the scriptures show it's the lawless one in the congregation that says peace and security.

 

"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you.  For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.  Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape."

 

They are waiting to hear a cry from the nations that will never come the way they are thinking. That is why it will catch them by surprise, like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape their destruction. When Jesus takes the throne, he is casting out the Devil, who will use the UN to destroy false religion. The angels know who in the organization (and just outside the organization) is marked for survival, those who are sighing and groaning over what is going on in the organization. The wicked ones will be cast out. The angels are the reapers. They have eyes. 

 

The vision in Zechariah shows the angels removing "Wickedness" and bringing her out of Israel to Shinar. "Wickedness" will be removed and destroyed with the rest of Babylon.

 

"But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves,  for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness."

 

Jehovah always tells ahead of time what He is doing. Those who hear these things will know Jehovah loved them in that day. If you have an ear to hear, listen! Jehovah has allowed your heart to understand. It is for a purpose. There will be many confused sheep in that day when the organization is attacked at the beginning of the tribulation. They will need to be comforted. Jehovah told ahead of time what He is allowing to happen. The organization will be refined, but it will also be restored. Do not be afraid. Jehovah will never leave His Name People. He made a covenant. He always fulfills His Covenant.

 

The little scattered sheep will be bandaged up and restored and have good shepherds. (Ezekiel 34) Praise Jah!

[Moise Racette]

35 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Did the kingdom come in 1914? 

 

Can the poster cite where the Watchtower mentioned the kingdom of heaven, arrived, on earth in 1914, or where the Watchtower stipulated the world would end in 1914 by either party?

However, the poster REFUSES to answer simple questions placed before the poster, just more nonsensical arguments. For instance, simple request, what text is the poster citing about the second verse in John?

39 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

What did Jesus say? "1914"? Nope. This is what he said:

More incoherence, since Jesus himself didn't know the day or the hour, only the father. However, what does that have to do with the end of the gentile times of Daniel and Revelation?

Once again, what does judgment day have to do with the end of the gentile times?

43 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Why does it matter that 1914 isn't the date? Because if the disciples are not keeping on the watch for the kingdom, then they don't understand the rest of the scriptures that are related.

When did Christ, true disciple from the Watchtower, stop keeping on the watch, stay alert, and have stopped the preaching work according to this poster? 

45 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The men taking the lead in the organization are teaching that the Devil is already cast down, and that Jesus already took the throne and cleaned the congregation, and that is why they act like kings now.

Can this poster read the poster's own thoughts? Once again, what does one have to do with the other? Judgment day is separate.

47 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

When Jesus takes the throne, he is casting out the Devil, who will use the UN to destroy false religion.

Now, this poster is stipulating like many others here. When Jesus second coming arrives, it will be because Satan has taken control of ALL facets of humanity. False religion, UN, independent governments, individuals, Armies, murders, false prophets, apostates, nonconformists, etc. The word TOOL should come to mind.

53 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Jehovah always tells ahead of time what He is doing. Those who hear these things will know Jehovah loved them in that day. If you have an ear to hear, listen! Jehovah has allowed your heart to understand.

So he shall to those that accepted God and obey his commands. Those who are on the fence will be dealt by God.

NAS  Revelation 3:15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I would that you were cold or hot. (Rev. 3:15 NAS)

NAS  Revelation 3:16'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. (Rev. 3:16 NAS)

However, this poster is now sounding like a faction of the hallelujah fellowship. 

[Guest]

What did Russell mean when he said: "The Gentile times have ended: their kings have had their day!" The end of the Gentile times meant the beginning of Christ's kingdom, correct? Isn't that what he was saying?

 

The words "Gentile times" are part of a larger phrase "the Gentile times for ruling" or "the times of the nations" or "the times the nations are ruling". The time period infers a beginning and an end. The teaching of the Watchtower magazine has been that the Gentile times began in 607 and ended in 1914. Why did they end? Because according to the Watchtower, Christ began ruling in 1914. According to Rutherford a little later, "Behold! The king reigns! Therefore, Advertise, Advertise, Advertise, the king and the kingdom!" What was he advertising? What did he want everyone else to advertise? That Jesus took the throne in 1914.

 

Jesus did not take the throne in 1914. Satan sowed seeds in the organization. The men taking the lead fell into a trap because they did not obey Jesus when Jesus said "no man knows the day or the hour." The men wanted to know the day and the hour, so they kept making stuff up, and Satan gave them an "inspired utterance" that wasn't from Jehovah, and they swallowed it. Then Satan did just like he did for Jannes and Jambres when he made their rods also turn into snakes and made them also call for frogs and make more frogs, and just like when Satan made resisters cause war on Israel in ancient times he pulled the strings for war in 1914, and just like he caused pestilence on Job he can do more "signs and wonders" to mislead people. There is nothing new under the sun.

 

As regards the verse in 2 John, there is only one chapter, so that is why I didn't mention the chapter, but here is what it says:

 

"The older man to the chosen lady and to her children, whom I truly love, and not only I but also all those who have come to know the truth,  because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever."

 

John was referring to how the helper, the holy spirit, helps anointed ones to understand the scriptures when it is Jehovah's time. (There is not "one channel". The "one channel" is not a Bible teaching. The "one channel" is an anti-Christ teaching, it is against what Christ taught.)

 

"There will be with us undeserved kindness, mercy, and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, with truth and love. I rejoice very much because I have found some of your children walking in the truth, just as we received commandment from the Father.  So now I request you, lady, that we love one another. (I am writing you, not a new commandment, but one that we had from the beginning.)  And this is what love means, that we go on walking according to his commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should go on walking in it."

 

True Christians don't hate each other and shun each other and lord it over each other with lots of unnecessary rules and victimize little ones and protect abusers. True Christians love each other do what Jesus said to do.

 

"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

 

Jesus came in the flesh. His return will be visible, not invisible. The anointed, when made into the new creation, will also be visible to those on earth. Those who say Jesus' coming will be invisible are anti-Christ, teaching against what Christ taught. The Bible says "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him." 

 

"Look out for yourselves, so that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward.  Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.  For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."

 

The original language on thes verses (10,11) "do not say a greeting to him" is actually rendered "not be you rejoicing to him"

 

If τις anyone ἔρχεται is coming πρὸς toward ὑμᾶς YOU καὶ and ταύτην this τὴν the διδαχὴν teaching οὐ not φέρει, he is bearing, μὴ not λαμβάνετε be YOU receiving αὐτὸν him εἰς into οἰκίαν house καὶ and χαίρειν to be rejoicing αὐτῷ to him μὴ not λέγετε·

 

the (one) λέγων saying γὰρ for αὐτῷ to him χαίρειν to be rejoicing κοινωνεῖ he is sharing τοῖς to the ἔργοις works αὐτοῦ of him τοῖς to the πονηροῖς. wicked (ones).

 

Here is another version:

 

"If anyone shows up who doesn’t hold to this teaching, don’t invite him in and give him the run of the place. That would just give him a platform to perpetuate his evil ways, making you his partner."

 

This verse is not saying "never talk to a disfellowshipped person." It doesn't even use a word "disfellowshipped". It's saying to not let somebody come take the lead in the organization who is going to teach untruths. It means don't let a bunch of guys come and perpetuate anti-Christ doctrines and then say, "the GB says" and "the Faithful Slave says" because then you are a partner with them, since you are "rejoicing" in their bad ways and teachings.

 

Here is what the rest of 2 John says:

 

 "Although I have many things to write to you, I do not want to do so with paper and ink, but I am hoping to come to you and to speak with you face-to-face, so that your joy may be in full measure. The children of your sister, the chosen one, send you their greetings."

 

The true Christians in the first century could be joyful when there were no fake scribes and fake Pharisees making up heavy hypocritical loads and burdening the people with unnecessary requirements. "Count your time" "give your money" "come to meetings for meetings, meetings for service, meetings for conventions, meetings for cleanings" "do more" "make more bricks". There were people in ancient times who also were known for their never-ending building projects and slave labor. Jehovah set His people free from such taskmasters.

 

Jesus load was refreshing and light.

 

What were the requirements in the first-century? To worship in a fancy kingdom hall or convention center or commune? No. They worshipped in homes. Did they eat fractions of blood so they could stay alive when the emperor demanded their compromise? No. They abstained from all blood. Did they trade preaching for working in some commune for the elders in Jerusalem so those elders wouldn't have to work secularly? No. They worked to support their own ministry.

 

Jesus is coming to straighten things out. You will know when he does. Everybody will know.

 

Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

49 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

What did Russell mean when he said: "The Gentile times have ended: their kings have had their day!" The end of the Gentile times meant the beginning of Christ's kingdom, correct?

Nope! He just meant the end of the age, and the beginning of troubles for all the nations. I'm sure this poster will get background support (Instant Messaging) from others who are as much in the dark as this poster here.

I don't tolerate misrepresentation.

49 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The time period infers a beginning and an end. The teaching of the Watchtower magazine has been that the Gentile times began in 607 and ended in 1914. Why did they end? Because according to the Watchtower, Christ began ruling in 1914.

The Watchtower was NOT the only one making that claim. However, the Watchtower is the only one that has corrected the "time of the gentiles" to be from 607BC instead of 606BC as many others have affirmed.

There's a very good reason why 607BC stands correct under historical chronology.

49 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The original language on thes verses (10,11) "do not say a greeting to him" is actually rendered "not be you rejoicing to him"

If this poster needs to learn about scripture, what makes this poster think it can provide sound linguistics?

CSB  2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home, and don't say, "Welcome," to him;

KJV  2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

NAS  2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;

NLT  2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don't invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement.

BGT  2 John 1:10 εἴ τις ἔρχεται πρὸς ὑμᾶς καὶ ταύτην τὴν διδαχὴν οὐ φέρει, μὴ λαμβάνετε αὐτὸν εἰς οἰκίαν καὶ χαίρειν αὐτῷ μὴ λέγετε·

BYZ  2 John 1:10 Εἴ τις ἔρχεται πρὸς ὑμᾶς, καὶ ταύτην τὴν διδαχὴν οὐ φέρει, μὴ λαμβάνετε αὐτὸν εἰς οἰκίαν, καὶ χαίρειν αὐτῷ μὴ λέγετε·

[Fri] οὐ οὐκ before a vowel, οὐχ before a rough-breathing vowel; an adverb negating an alleged fact, used predominately in the NT with the indicative mood no, not (MT 4.4); (1) with an accent οὔ as the negative answer no (JN 1.21); (2) in litotes, using a negative to emphasize a positive not . . . (but) (JN 1.13); (3) contrary to the general rule, occasionally with a participle; (a) to negate a single concept (HE 11.1); (b) to denote strong emphasis or contrast (HE 11.35); (c) in quotations from the Septuagint (GA 4.27); (4) used to negate the declarative future, forming a prohibition (MT 19.18); (5) used in direct questions to indicate that an affirmative answer is expected (MT 6.26); (6) in combination with other negatives, such as οὐ μή (MT 5.18), οὐκ οὐδέν (JN 6.63), to produce a strong negative or prohibition never, not at all, by no means, certainly not

_____________________________________________________

CSB  2 John 1:11 for the one who says, "Welcome," to him shares in his evil works.

KJV  2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

NAS  2 John 1:11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

NLT  2 John 1:11 Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.

BGT  2 John 1:11 ὁ λέγων γὰρ αὐτῷ χαίρειν κοινωνεῖ τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ τοῖς πονηροῖς.

BYZ  2 John 1:11 ὁ γὰρ λέγων αὐτῷ χαίρειν κοινωνεῖ τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτοῦ τοῖς πονηροῖς.

[Fri] πονηρός, ά, όν comparative πονηρότερος, α, ον; (1) adjectivally; (a) as what is physically disadvantageous bad, harmful, evil, painful (EP 5.16; RV 16.2); (b) of persons and things, as of little worth to anyone useless, unprofitable, unserviceable (MT 7.18; 18.32; perhaps MT 6.23 and LU 11.34); (c) in a moral sense of persons and things characterized by ill will evil, wicked, malicious (MT 12.35; probably MT 6.23 and LU 11.34); (2) substantivally; (a) of persons evildoer, wicked person, bad person (MT 13.49); (b) as a term for the devil ὁ π. the evil or wicked one (MT 13.19); the phrase τοῦ πονηροῦ (mt 5.37; 6.13) may belong here or it may be neuter, as in the following; (c) neuter (τὸ) πονηρόν generally evil (MT 5.11)

[Guest]

This verse is not talking about the time period between the ancient nation of Israel and now.

 

"And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."

 

The context shows it's talking about when the great tribulation starts through the end of the tribulation, Armageddon.

 

Jehovah's Witnesses will be trampled on by the nations during the great tribulation. The appointed times are 3 1/2 times. Other places in scripture say 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1260 days, or 1290 days, etc. It's in the Bible many times for emphasis. There is no formula or calculation. It's clear enough for a kid to understand.

 

"At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children."

 

"In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved."

 

"God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame;  and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,  so that no one might boast in the sight of God.  But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom,  so that it may be just as it is written: “The one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”

 

Do you have an ear to hear? Praise Jehovah for his undeserved kindness and love!

 

Here is what Jehovah says:

 

"Therefore, I am the One who will again do wonderful things with this people, 

With wonder upon wonder; 

And the wisdom of their wise men will perish, 

And the understanding of their discreet men will be hidden.”

 

Jehovah is coming. If you know anyone at Bethel, please warn them of what Jehovah is going to allow. Those who obey Jehovah and follow His directions will be safe. Those who disobey do not "run to Jehovah" by following what is in His Word. Jehovah has never given direction to build a commune. It is an anti-Christ arrangement. It will not be protected in the day of judgment on false religion.

 

There is no wisdom in opposition to Jehovah.

 

There are people who have been warning and warning the Bethelites, sending letters and emails and messages, again and again, to tell them what is coming. They do not respond. They will know that Jehovah sent a warning. He always sends a warning first.

 

"That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie,  in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

 

Please, if you know anyone at Bethel, encourage them to return to their congregations of origin or somewhere else that is not physically at Bethel. We do not know the day or the hour, but Jehovah has given warning. It will come right on time, Jehovah's appointed time. They are not ready for it, it will come like a thief for them. You will be glad you warned them.

 

Jehovah's Word Always Comes True. Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

5 hours ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

This verse is not talking about the time period between the ancient nation of Israel and now.

Since this poster doesn't understand its own argument, LEARN SCRIPTURE, then you can have a basic debate.

[Guest]

There are many different "appointed times" in the Bible. There was the appointed time for Jehovah to judge those in the day of the Flood. There was an appointed time for Sodom and Gomorrah to be judged. There was an appointed time the Israelites to be set free from Egypt. There was an appointed time for the judgment on Israel and the surrounding nations, etc. We know which "appointed time" the Bible is talking about based on the context.

 

"And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."

 

Nobody was "falling captive by the edge of the sword" in the organization in 1914-1919. Jesus says it will be the greatest tribulation ever. A few members of headquarters getting arrested and put in prison, where they were able to play tennis and teach Sunday school, is not "falling captive by the edge of the sword". (A.H. Macmillan personally describes their prison stay in "Faith On the March").

 

When Jerusalem had its appointed time back in Nebuchadnezzar's day, it was great tribulation. Many died. When the Jews in Jerusalem had their appointed time back in the days of the Romans, it was great tribulation. Many died. When the organization is "trampled on by the nations" at the beginning of the great tribulation, it will be clear what time period has then begun. You won't have to ask, "Is this the great tribulation?" You will know. That's when you will know Jesus took the throne and cast out the Devil from heaven, when you see Bethel getting attacked by the UN, as foretold in the Bible.

 

"Whenever it is they are saying "peace and security" sudden destruction will be instantly upon them like a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape."

 

The organization says it is in peace and security, that they will be protected during the attack on religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those taking the lead in the organization are riding on the beastly governments by means of their legal departments and PID and HLC/HID/HIS. None of those departments will be able to save them when the beastly governments turn to eat up religion.

 

Those who are worshipping God in spirit and truth will be fine when the physical buildings are taken away and torn down, just like the Christians were fine when the physical temple was torn down in Jerusalem. Not a stone was left upon a stone.

 

Jesus told us what to expect when he was about to take the throne. He said what to expect when the kingdom was put in place. Great tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. 

 

True worshippers follow Christ. Christ gave direction on how to survive. He's giving it today too. "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies..."

 

Bethel is about to be attacked. The nations are already showing their hatred for the rotten fruitage of false religion, but the angels have been holding back the wave of attack by the nations. The Bible says the angels have been "exercising a restraint" until the anointed are all sealed. Once the anointed are all sealed, the restraint is removed and the lawless ones presence is revealed. If you can see who the lawless ones presence is, then you know the time is near. The lawless one is saying "peace and security" in the congregation, when there is no real peace and security for sheeplike ones.

 

"Flee to the mountains."

 

Jehovah's sovereignty is our refuge. His Word is clear on how to live. Show love to your brother. Don't take any blood at all. Respect authority but remember God is the highest authority. 

 

The Bethels are going to be attacked by the nations. Those who are truly sighing and groaning over the bad things going on are marked for survival. Jehovah's Witnesses will be refined. The weeds will be removed, false doctrines and wicked ones. The whole Bethel arrangement is not based on the first-century congregational arrangement. It is based on counsel that is in opposition to God's Word. Jehovah does not protect those who go against his clear direction. You had to be in the house with the blood on the doorpost to be safe when the angel of death passed over in Egypt. If you know anyone at Bethel, please help them to get to a safer location before the tribulation begins.

 

Jehovah's Word Always Comes True. Jehovah's name will be sanctified. Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

4 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Nobody was "falling captive by the edge of the sword" in the organization in 1914-1919. Jesus says it will be the greatest tribulation ever. A few members of headquarters getting arrested and put in prison, where they were able to play tennis and teach Sunday school, is not "falling captive by the edge of the sword". (A.H. Macmillan personally describes their prison stay in "Faith On the March").

Wow!! Seriously, if this poster needs help, please dial the crisis center nearest the poster.

6 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

The Bethels are going to be attacked by the nations. Those who are truly sighing and groaning over the bad things going on are marked for survival. Jehovah's Witnesses will be refined.

This just proves it. The contradictions of telling people about time and expectations, when the poster is doing the same. Please contact a crisis center nearest the poster ASAP!!!

[Guest]

"Beloved ones, this is now the second letter I am writing you in which, as in my first one, I am stirring up your clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, that you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.  First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires  and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God;  and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water.  But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people."

 

Jehovah always executes judgment on law-defying people. He always gives a warning first.

 

"Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.  Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him,  speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 

 

You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness.  No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. 

 

Amen."

[Guest]

Angels were created sons of God.

Humans were created sons of God.

 

Angels are like the older brothers in the family.

 

When some angels left their places in heaven to come beat up people and abuse them, they were becoming lawless ones. Jehovah had an appointed time at the Flood to execute judgment on those who followed the lawless ones of that day.

"And they took no note...until the Flood came and swept them all away."

 

Jesus gave men in the congregation to be older brothers.

 

When some of those older brothers disobey the assignment given to them to shepherd and instead misuse their authority to figuratively beat up people and abuse them, they are becoming lawless ones. Jehovah has an appointed time at the beginning of the great tribulation to execute judgment on those who follow the example of the lawless ones today.

"Take note, you people."

 

Praise Jehovah.