JWs sue Norwegian government

[Srecko Sostar]

It is all about money, firstly.

JW Ben Elder presentation:

He says "I've been one of the JWs probably longer than I can remember". Here, WTJWorg himself refuted the claims that are being made in this court in Oslo, that children are not baptized, but only "adult children". lol

He is the Director of an office called "Freedom of Worship" based in Germany.
In conjunction with that is his role as the EAJW Representative (European Association of Jehovah's Witnesses).

When asked by the Judge what his professional background is, he answers with the words that he is the Office Director and Office Manager. The judge actually asks him about his educational background, and we learn that he is actually a tradesman in building construction.
We learn that EAJW as a "Charitable Body" exists to consider and respond to threats and apparent threats especially within the 46 EU countries.
And right at the beginning this JW representative starts to engage in politics. This is clear from these words:

"So firstly I would like to provide The Court with a brief comment on European context in which the Norwegian government's actions are taking place. Then I would like to address the influence of the Norwegian government's actions elsewhere. And then lastly I'd give the Court an overview of how courts in other countries have handled allegations against JWs." ....
 

He says that the Court should protect the Rights and Freedoms, especially of all those persons who have unpopular views and who belong to minorities.
How absurd. Ex-JWs (how many in EU?) are the Minority who are persecuted in this way by the JW Majority (1,4 mil in EU). WTJWorg Brethren filed a lawsuit in Spain against former JWs. And now the Brethren are suing the Norwegian state because Norway is empathetic towards few ex-JWs who are victims of the JW shunning policy.

Ex-JWs left the JW religion or were excommunicated (or are PIMO), from the JW clergy because of their "unpopular views". By doing so, they became a "despised minority" in the eyes of most JWs. The JWs call that minority "enemies of God" and "their enemies". So what is Ben Elder talking about? His arguments in Court are directed against himself and against his JW brothers. He confirms that WTJWorg is in the "Persecutor" position/mode.

JW Ben refers to a "pluralistic society" that should allow WTJWorg to have whatever religious dogma it wants, but at the same time should prohibit any criticism of its dogma from ex-JW or other secular individuals and institutions. He is indeed deluded in his own wisdom.

He warns that the state has no right to "State Morality", because it is dangerous for citizens. But, he forgets that WTJWorg is also a "Government" that requires its followers to adhere to the so-called "biblical morality" but only such as interpreted by GB.

 

This video clip was preceded by a presentation by the main JW attorney.

The General Counsel for JW, Anders Ryssdal (a secular person), objected to the use of the WTJWorg publication in the Court. The reason for this lies in the possibility that the Court interprets it in its own (wrong) way, and not in the way GB and JWs interpret it. Imagine the stupidity of such a claim. On the one hand, GB is the only authority to interpret the Bible. But we already knew that. Now we find out that GB is the only authority to interpret its own interpretations of the Bible interpretations. lol

A. Ryssdal claims that there is no institutional obligation of shunning towards ex-JW. He claims that it is the personal choice of each individual JW. The lawyer is saying something that is not true. Is this at the behest of WTJWorg? Or is a new doctrinal clarification being prepared? lol

Enjoy the video!

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Because you will not find nothing on JWorg breaking news, as usual, about this perhaps this will help.

 

https://avoidjw.org/news/norway-trial-violation-childrens-rights-shunning/

 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, George88 said:

Maybe he was referring to infants, instead of spiritually developed young individuals.

He was talking about himself.

11 hours ago, George88 said:

The government's stance on gay rights is clear to the world, and it aligns with the Vatican's acceptance of it. However, the Organization will base its decision on scripture rather than conforming to the popular beliefs upheld by human courts.

What should be before the court is, does the government favor certain religions by granting subsidies without considering their bylaws, while imposing new laws to restrict a religion when they disagree with its bylaws? Is this a matter of financial priorities or a question of the government discriminating against specific religious groups?

Who is worse in the eyes of God? Now, why should the organization promote apostate theories?

JW representative, Ben Elder, is involved in politics because he comments on political relations within EU countries. It is not his job because he is a follower of the JW religion and as such should be politically neutral and not comment on things that are not in his domain of religious activity. If he wants to be an internal or external political commentator, then he should go into the journalism profession or maybe run for some social and/or political function.
WTJWorg formed a body called "Office for religious freedom", of which Ben Elder is the director. He is a director working in Germany for an American corporation. And now in Norway he is giving lessons to the Court there. Really out of place.

[Srecko Sostar]

14 minutes ago, George88 said:

Srecko, where is your source of information coming from?

I conclude from your questions that you did not watch the video I uploaded.

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, George88 said:

Your conclusion would be incorrect. Is that the only reason why you believe that legal counsel is a baptized JW? Not all legal representatives are Jehovah's Witnesses.

How can you and I have a meaningful discussion on the topic when you notoriously ignore the words of JW representative Ben Elder who claims for himself, in the court in Oslo, that he was baptized at the age of 13 and then became an official member of the JW religion.
Ben Elder clearly declared himself a JW in his opening remarks.
As for the legal team, I don't have complete information, but most likely it is a team outside the JW milieu.

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, George88 said:

Not all legal representatives are Jehovah's Witnesses. They have the freedom to be activists to their heart's content.

As I said, the legal team in Oslo is paid to "represent" JWs and most likely there are no JWs among them. This legal team is/are not activists. They are paid for legal job, business in court.

Activists shouldn't be activists for money, but you never know.

Massimo Introvigne would be one of the "activists", for cults and sects and other religious communities, who often defends JW.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, George88 said:

 I found it puzzling that you were asserting he had engaged in political activities as a Watchtower representative in that hearing. I'm attempting to connect the dots here.

To me, it is a striking non-neutral attitude that he shows at the beginning of his presentation. My observation, my impression is based on comparing the official teaching of the JW church that they are politically neutral and Ben Elder's introducing expose.

If this is indeed the case, then political neutrality does not allow the freedom of any JW to comment on any political aspects among EU member states. If JWs comment on politics and politicians in a private circle, that is their choice. But if they do so in public then they are not consistent with what they preach about themselves as non-political members of society who exclusively follow a non-political Christ.

5 hours ago, George88 said:

Based on Ben's presentation, it seems that the Norwegian government has prioritized apostate views over the fundamental rights of its citizens, who contribute through taxes and abide by the same obligations as the general population. This situation raises concerns about potential discrimination within the European Union, therefore requiring a thorough evaluation by The Hague.

I wouldn't conclude it that way. In addition, in the mentality of WTJWorg, all former JWs and all those who are not JWs are supposedly "enemies" of the so-called God's organizations and God himself.
In such a fanatical context that the JW religion wants to portray, no country is inclined to WTJWorg. WTJWorg wants to portray themselves as martyrs and persecuted. That's complete nonsense.

Well, the world does not revolve around the JW religion. Such an unrealistic view of themselves is held by members of those religious organizations who consider themselves to be the only light bearers of truth and justice in this world. So, such self-evaluation is unrealistic and can create difficulties.

Norway has NOT banned JWs, nor their activities. State is denying them money. Just that. (Ok and registrar jobs for newlyweds) Precondition for receiving government money is the fulfillment of certain conditions. Due to changes in legislation or conditions for obtaining money, the status of an organization changes. If an organization does not meet the new criteria, it does not receive money. Plain and simple. Another organization in Norway does not meet the conditions and may not receive state financial support.
There is no conspiracy, no hatred, no persecution.

JWs have the freedom not to talk to people of their own choosing. Like everyone else. The problem with WTJWorg is that this ban is institutionalized. So WTJWorg determines who you can and can't talk to.

The lawyer representing JW in this case, claims in this court how "shunning" is a private choice, and that it was not imposed by the JW organization. Anyone who knows reality can see that this lawyer is LYING.

[Srecko Sostar]

[Srecko Sostar]

The above text from the JW magazine clearly shows the hatred shown by the religious leaders of the WTJWorg in 1952.
Their desire to kill ex-JWs is very strong. Allegedly, they are only prevented from doing so by secular law and the law of Jesus.

[Matthew9969]

Well since they claim all other bibles are corrupt and they produced the only jehovah approved bible, so yea.

[Srecko Sostar]

On 1/23/2024 at 8:55 PM, George88 said:

Moreover, while you are challenging witnesses' statements, what makes you consider your behavior to be nonsensical as you seem to deny yourself the fact you are persecuting witnesses with your anti-watchtower rhetoric here?

Indeed, I consider this kind of claim to be imprudent and bordering on paranoia. Since when was criticism considered persecution?
Since when is confrontation regarding dogmas and ideas, regarding religious interpretations and practices within a religious community considered persecution?
JWs are free to believe whatever they want (and they prove such an approach to religion on a daily basis, as they change their theology almost daily), and current and former church members and other interested observers are free to comment on it in their own way.

The confirmed practice of WTJWorg lawyers is to distort the real situation and tell untruths in the courts. In Norway, they use exactly the same tried and tested practice to obscure the facts.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Numerous Bibles offer similar interpretations, but the Watchtower's commitment to capturing the essence of the ancient scrolls and God's words without error is unparalleled. While some may question the superiority of the NWT, the fact remains: if it were truly flawed, why would God allow it to persist? In the end, it is not human opinions that hold weight, but rather the will of God.

The obligation to report the hours and pieces of literature that JWs were supposed to take in order to prove and show their "spirituality" to the elders and other members of the WTJWorg has no basis in the Bible. It took WTJWorg 100 years to change this doctrine. It's the same with beards.

Well please, about whose Bible and about whose interpretations are we talking about?

Has the influence of the ex-JW population led to a change in WTJWorg theology?

"Watchtower's commitment to capturing the essence" ??.... This is humorous.