Donald Diamond

I have not managed to work out how to use selective quotes, so will deal with this part of your response first. I don't agree with you. The Greek verb proskuneo primarily means to bow down by prostration (more like we see Muslims do in their daily prayers). Falling down is not bowing down. In the scripture you quote, the action suggested was that Jesus should fall down and prostrate himself. It was an act of subjection, not religious devotion. D.

It is very simple. I honour my mother as I honour my father. I honour my mother for different reasons than I honour my father. In both cases, I honour them, but it is not the "same" honour as it is for different reasons. Scripture tells us to honour those to whom honour is due - the reasons for that honour is different in each case. Receiving honour is not a definition of deity. In scripture we honour the Father for being God - we honour the Son for dying for us - something God could not do as He cannot die. I do not see in scripture the concept of "equal worship". The derivation of the word sometimes translated "worship" is simply "to bow the knee". Sometimes it ids bowing to God, sometimes to humans beings. The Israelites worshipped Jehovah (YHWH) and the king (I Chron 29:20) 1Ch 29:20 And David said to all the assembly, Now bless Jehovah your God. And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped Jehovah, and the king. (ASV) - it is describing one act. Do you consider this "equal worship"? It clearly doesn't mean that the human king is Jehovah. D.

Hello Shiwii, I am glad that you can see that the passage gives us the reason why we honour the Son as we honour the Father. But the passage is clearly saying that the Son and the Father God are not equal because the Son derives his authority from the Father. We honour both the Father and the Son but for different reasons. It is because the Son derives his authority from the Father, that we honour the Son, not because they are intrinsically equal in authority which is what you appear to be claiming. I don't see how you can read this passage in any other way. The Father does not derive His authority from the Son. D

It seems you are not reading the context of John 5:23. The context gives the reason WHY we honour the Son as we would the Father: Joh 5:19 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. Joh 5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. Joh 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. Joh 5:22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, Joh 5:23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. Joh 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. Joh 5:27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. This passage is about honouring the Son because of the authority in judgement and raising the dead, which the Father has granted to the Son. It is not about the equality of the Father and Son. D