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Bonjour Eric, merci pour cet exposé sur Hanna, Bonne journée. Michel
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Srecko Sostar reacted to a post in a topic:
Jehovah’s Witness sexual abuse report can stay online, judge rules
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Srecko Sostar reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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LA FOI D'HANNA ENVERS DIEU APPORTE SA RÉCOMPENSE
UNE femme de foi adresse une prière à Jéhovah. Convaincue que c’est Dieu qui l’a relevée de la poussière, transformant son abattement en exultation, elle le loue à haute voix.
Cette femme, c’est Hanna. Qu’est-ce qui explique son spectaculaire changement d’état d’âme ? Pourquoi est-elle à présent si joyeuse ? En quoi ce qu’elle a vécu peut-il nous être utile ? Intéressons-nous à son histoire.
Une famille sous pression
Hanna est l’une des deux femmes d’Elqana, un Lévite de la région d’Éphraïm (1 Samuel 1:1, 2a ; 1 Chroniques 6:33, 34). Bien que n’entrant pas dans le dessein originel de Dieu pour l’humanité, la polygamie est autorisée et réglementée sous la Loi mosaïque. Elle est néanmoins une source fréquente de discorde. La vie de cette famille, qui pourtant adore Jéhovah, en témoigne.
Hanna est stérile, tandis que Peninna, l’autre femme d’Elqana, a plusieurs enfants. Peninna se comporte en rivale. — 1 Samuel 1:2b.
Pour une Israélite, la stérilité est un déshonneur, et même un signe de la défaveur divine. Mais, dans le cas de Hanna, rien n’indique que son incapacité de procréer soit liée à la désapprobation de Dieu. Peninna ne la console pas pour autant ; elle se prévaut au contraire de son statut de mère pour l’humilier.
Au sanctuaire de Jéhovah
Malgré ces tensions, la famille entreprend le voyage annuel en direction du sanctuaire de Jéhovah, à Shilo, pour y offrir des sacrifices. L’aller-retour de quelque 60 kilomètres se fait vraisemblablement à pied. Cet événement doit être particulièrement pénible pour Hanna. En effet, Peninna et ses enfants reçoivent plusieurs portions du sacrifice de communion, alors que Hanna, elle, n’en reçoit qu’une seule. Peninna trouve là une opportunité supplémentaire de la blesser et de la mettre dans l’embarras ; il semble que Jéhovah ait “ fermé sa matrice ”, et elle ne manque pas de le lui rappeler. Tous les ans, c’est le même calvaire. Tous les ans, Hanna pleure et cesse de manger. Ces voyages qui normalement devraient la mettre en joie la plongent dans une profonde détresse. Hanna se rend néanmoins chaque année au sanctuaire de Jéhovah. — 1 Samuel 1:3-7.
Voyez-vous en quoi Hanna est un bel exemple ? Comment réagissez-vous lorsque vous êtes déprimé ? Vous isolez-vous et évitez-vous les contacts avec vos compagnons chrétiens ? Ce n’est pas ce qu’a fait Hanna. Les rassemblements avec les adorateurs de Jéhovah étaient pour elle une habitude de vie. Même face à des circonstances éprouvantes, il devrait en être de même pour nous. — Psaume 26:12 ; 122:1 ; Proverbes 18:1 ; Hébreux 10:24, 25.
Elqana tente de réconforter Hanna et il l’amène à exprimer ses sentiments profonds. “ Hanna, pourquoi pleures-tu et pourquoi ne manges-tu pas ? Pourquoi ton cœur a-t-il mal ? lui demande-t-il. Est-ce que je ne vaux pas mieux pour toi que dix fils ? ” (1 Samuel 1:8). Peut-être n’a-t-il pas conscience de la malveillance de Peninna. Et peut-être Hanna préfère-t-elle se taire plutôt que de se plaindre. Quoi qu’il en soit, cette femme spirituelle se tourne vers Jéhovah dans la prière pour retrouver la paix intérieure.
Le vœu de Hanna
Les sacrifices de communion étaient consommés dans le sanctuaire. Après avoir quitté la salle à manger, Hanna prie Dieu (1 Samuel 1:9, 10). “ Ô Jéhovah des armées, implore-t-elle, si tu ne manques pas de regarder l’affliction de ton esclave et si vraiment tu te souviens de moi, si tu n’oublies pas ton esclave et si vraiment tu donnes à ton esclave un descendant mâle, oui je le donnerai à Jéhovah pour tous les jours de sa vie, et le rasoir ne viendra pas sur sa tête. ” — 1 Samuel 1:11.
La prière de Hanna est précise. Elle demande un fils, et elle fait le vœu que cet enfant sera toute sa vie un naziréen de Dieu (Nombres 6:1-5). Ce vœu nécessite l’approbation de son mari, et certaines actions ultérieures d’Elqana montrent qu’il approuve l’engagement pris par sa chère femme. — Nombres 30:6-8.
À cause de la manière dont Hanna prie, le grand prêtre Éli la croit ivre. Il voit effectivement ses lèvres frémir, mais il ne l’entend pas parler. C’est qu’en fait Hanna prie dans son cœur, avec ferveur (1 Samuel 1:12-14). Imaginez ce qu’elle ressent lorsque le grand prêtre l’accuse d’être ivre ! Pourtant, elle lui répond respectueusement. Comprenant alors que Hanna était en train de prier “ dans l’abondance de [son] inquiétude et de [son] dépit ”, il lui dit : “ Que le Dieu d’Israël accorde ta requête. ” (1 Samuel 1:15-17). Sur ces paroles, Hanna s’en va ; elle mange et “ son visage ne par[aît] plus soucieux ”. — 1 Samuel 1:18.
Que nous enseigne tout cela ? Lorsque nous prions Jéhovah à propos de nos inquiétudes, nous pouvons lui exprimer ce que nous ressentons et lui adresser des requêtes sincères. Si nous avons fait tout notre possible pour résoudre le problème, alors nous devrions laisser les choses entre ses mains. C’est ce qu’il y a de mieux à faire. — Proverbes 3:5, 6.
Après une prière fervente, il est fréquent que des serviteurs de Jéhovah ressentent une sérénité comparable à celle que Hanna a éprouvée. Voici ce qu’a écrit l’apôtre Paul au sujet de la prière : “ Ne vous inquiétez de rien, mais en tout, par la prière et la supplication avec action de grâces, faites connaître vos requêtes à Dieu ; et la paix de Dieu, qui surpasse toute pensée, gardera vos cœurs et vos facultés mentales par le moyen de Christ Jésus. ” (Philippiens 4:6, 7). Après nous être déchargés de notre fardeau sur Jéhovah, nous devons le laisser s’en occuper. Puis, comme dans le cas de Hanna, il n’y a plus lieu de s’inquiéter. — Psaume 55:22.
Un fils “ prêté ” à Jéhovah
Dieu se tourne alors vers Hanna. Peu après, elle porte un enfant. Elle met au monde un garçon (1 Samuel 1:19, 20). C’est l’une des rares fois où la Bible fait état de la responsabilité de Dieu dans la naissance de l’un de ses serviteurs. L’enfant d’Elqana et de Hanna, Samuel, deviendra effectivement le prophète de Jéhovah, un prophète qui jouera un rôle important dans la mise en place de la monarchie d’Israël.
Il est certain que Hanna parle de Jéhovah à Samuel dès sa petite enfance. Mais oublie-t-elle le vœu qu’elle a fait ? Absolument pas ! “ Dès que le garçon sera sevré, je devrai l’amener ; il devra paraître devant Jéhovah et habiter là pour des temps indéfinis ”, déclare-t-elle. Et en effet, une fois l’enfant sevré — peut-être à l’âge de trois ans ou un peu plus —, elle l’amène au sanctuaire, comme elle l’avait promis. — 1 Samuel 1:21-24 ; 2 Chroniques 31:16.
Après avoir offert un sacrifice à Jéhovah, Hanna et son mari présentent Samuel à Éli. Hanna tient certainement la main de son petit garçon lorsqu’elle dit à Éli : “ Pardon, mon seigneur ! Par la vie de ton âme, mon seigneur, je suis la femme qui se tenait près de toi, en ce lieu, pour prier Jéhovah. C’est à propos de ce garçon que je priais, pour que Jéhovah m’accorde ma requête, ce que je lui demandais. Et moi, à mon tour, je l’ai prêté à Jéhovah. Oui, tous les jours qu’il sera, c’est quelqu’un de demandé pour Jéhovah. ” Ainsi commence, pour Samuel, une vie au service de Dieu. — 1 Samuel 1:25-28 ; 2:11.
Le temps passe ; bien sûr Hanna n’oublie pas son fils. Les Écritures relatent : “ Sa mère avait coutume de lui faire un petit manteau sans manches, et elle le lui montait, d’année en année, quand elle montait avec son mari pour sacrifier le sacrifice annuel. ” (1 Samuel 2:19). Hanna prie sans aucun doute pour Samuel. Tous les ans, lorsqu’elle lui rend visite, elle l’encourage à coup sûr à demeurer fidèle dans son service pour Dieu.
Pendant l’une de ces visites, Éli bénit les parents du garçon. Il déclare à Elqana : “ Que Jéhovah t’assigne une descendance de cette femme, à la place du prêt qui a été prêté à Jéhovah. ” C’est ainsi que le couple est récompensé par la naissance de trois autres fils et de deux filles. — 1 Samuel 2:20, 21.
Quel formidable exemple pour les parents chrétiens ! Beaucoup de mères et de pères se montrent, eux aussi, disposés à prêter, figurément parlant, leurs enfants à Jéhovah ; en effet, ils les encouragent à entreprendre une forme de service à plein temps, même si cela implique que leur fils, ou leur fille, vive loin d’eux. De tels parents aimants méritent des louanges pour les sacrifices qu’ils font. Jéhovah les récompensera.
Une prière qui déborde de joie
Comme Hanna est heureuse, elle que la stérilité affectait tant autrefois ! Les Écritures ne contiennent que peu de prières faites par des femmes. Mais, en ce qui concerne Hanna, elles en rapportent deux. La première expose ses sentiments alors qu’elle est humiliée et affligée. La seconde exprime son exultation et son action de grâces ; elle commence par ces mots : “ Oui, mon cœur exulte en Jéhovah. ” Hanna se réjouit ensuite que ‘ même la stérile ait mis au monde ’. Et elle loue Jéhovah, celui “ qui élève [...], qui relève le petit de la poussière ”. Vraiment, il est celui qui “ de la fosse aux cendres [...] fait remonter le pauvre ”. — 1 Samuel 2:1-10.
Cet épisode de la vie de Hanna, dont le récit a été inspiré par Dieu, montre que les imperfections, voire la malveillance, des autres peuvent nous blesser. Toutefois, nous ne devons pas permettre à ce genre d’épreuves de nous priver de notre joie de servir Dieu. Jéhovah est, par excellence, Celui qui entend la prière, qui répond aux appels à l’aide de ses fidèles et qui les délivre de l’affliction. Il leur accorde une paix profonde et de nombreuses autres bénédictions. — Psaume 22:23-26 ; 34:6-8 ; 65:2.
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Thursday 6th August 2020 The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse is holding a further week of public hearings in the Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings investigation, from 10 – 14 August. Following the initial two week public hearing in May earlier this year, we will continue to examine child protection policies and safeguarding cultures in religious organisations in England and Wales. These include Jehovah’s Witnesses, Baptists, Methodists, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Buddhism and non-conformist Christian denominations. Evidence will be heard from a wide range of witnesses, including victims and survivors, religious organisations, charities, local authorities, central government and third sector bodies who provide training and support in the field. This investigation will focus on the measures religious organisations employ to keep children safe from sexual abuse and to properly handle safeguarding concerns. Set to take place virtually, proceedings will be streamed live on the Inquiry’s website. Witnesses will continue to be supported by the Inquiry’s Support and Safeguarding team, through phone and video calls. -
August 5th 2020 Old news revisited, but this must be costing the CCJW a bit of money. A report into the handling of sexual abuse among Jehovah’s Witnesses does not have be removed from a government site, a court in Arnhem has decided. It is the second time the Dutch branch of the church has gone to court over the report. In January it tried to stop publication but at the time judges ruled it should be published in the public interest. Just 25% of victims said they were satisfied at the way their complaints against the community had been handled and only 27% of cases were ever passed on to the police or other officials. Most of the reports related to abuse in the past, with just 32 covering the past 10 years.
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@César Chávez It could not be more of a misconception than your idea that Moses and your GB have anything in common. We know that God spoke directly to Moses but we also know that God does not speak directly or even indirectly to your GB. If God spoke directly to the GB then the GB would not err spiritually in spoken or written word. Unfortunately your GB err many times and so do their helpers.
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4Jah2me reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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4Jah2me reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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Please, define "directly" and define "personally". What this mean to you? Or/and to JW religion interpretation. Is it your and JW official interpretation the same? -
Yes! Just make sure you post a new topic that is not driven under a misconception from Srecko. If you do, it would yield a false representation of someone else's word. A common trait to be sure by former members. -
No joke Screcko, I just need you to concentrate on the time of Moses, and not other interactions. When God gave Moses his instructions and guidelines, did God speak "directly" to the people or did he speak to Moses personally. Did Moses not pass that guidance through physical affect? At some point Srecko, you need to stick to "one" subject and not just throw things in a mix. Since you are still unwilling to apply reason, then we are just wasting our time.
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The WEST's war of words against CHINA. Starting with the Uyghurs.
JW Insider replied to JW Insider's topic in Topics
Another important piece of context about famines in China even before Mao was in power, based on Wikipedia's list: 1810, 1811, 1846, 1849 Unknown (45 million decrease, unknown how many emigrated or avoided census to evade taxes)[4] 1850–1873 Nian Rebellion, Taiping Rebellion and drought Primarily caused by famine, lower life expectancy and plague in the case of the Nian rebellion, the total war casualties are claimed to possibly be 10–30 million people[5][6] Great North China Famine 1876–1879 Northern China Drought 9–13 million[7] 1896–97 Northern China Leading in part to the Boxer Rebellion Great Qing Famine 1907 Northern Jiangsu, parts of central China and Guangdong Allegedly 25 million 1920–1921 North China famine 1920–1921 Henan, Shandong, Shanxi, Shaanxi, southern Zhili (Hebei) 0.5 million[8] Chinese famine of 1928–30 1928–1930 Northern China Drought 3 million 1936–1937 famine 1936–1937[9] Sichuan, Gansu Unknown (the source that claimed up to 5 million people has been unproven) 1942–1943 famine 1942–1943 Mainly Henan Second Sino-Japanese War 2–3 million Great Chinese Famine 1959–61[10] Entire country[11][12] Great Leap Forward, Floods, Droughts, Typhoons, Insect Invasion[13] 15 to 55 million [14] -
The WEST's war of words against CHINA. Starting with the Uyghurs.
JW Insider replied to JW Insider's topic in Topics
I appreciate the thoughtful response. You hit upon the basic problem of what we can "know" for certain, especially about a topic for which the waters have definitely been muddied. The very fact that "experts" give ranges from 10 million to 40+ million deaths, already shows there is huge margin of error involved. And the range of reasons for it are inconsistent, too. (Varying amounts of human error vs. drought, or willful disregard for life, or even murderous intent.) I put the number 4 million out there for the Great Leap Forward (1958-62) as a probable minimum. (I should have said possible minimum.) The range could start lower, and still go much higher. What I was hoping to point out was that if we really don't know, then we can't use those supposed facts to color our reasoning on other claims we hear (about China in this case). Personally, I think the 4 million number I posited is too low. I think upwards of 10 million really is quite possible. (So you'll notice that presenting the 4 million as a possibility, I was also using "negotiation" numbers.) I should also say that I believe Deng was actually careful to use believable reports from the various provinces. (He had been a journalist.) By most accounts, he visited some of the hard hit areas himself and gathered reports from those who visited other areas. Since exact numbers were not available, he would have received wide ranges of numbers, and his anti-Mao bias allowed him to choose the upper end of those ranges. His number (16.5 million) would have been an absolute maximum, but not impossible. Even those who criticize the anomalies in the statistics are not usually trying to "prove" a specific number, only that there must have been a one-sided bias behind them. But back to that point of what we can and cannot "know." We can't very well use dubious "facts" as a foundation for believing more dubious "facts." It seems to me that there is a constant (intentional) stream of negative news reports about China, and it has been shown that many of these turn out to be false, or are highly exaggerated, one-sided, or believable, but without any basis in evidence. This doesn't mean that negative reports are necessarily wrong, of course. But it does mean we need to use caution. Even if we still believe the worst possible scenario (70+ million intentional, murderous deaths?), does that necessarily mean we must accept any and all negative reports we hear about China today? On this idea of intentional deaths, or even a willful disregard for human life, there is another set of factors at play. In the "propaganda game" in politics and other ideologies, it's common to find quotes taken out of context, or a media title tacked onto an article which isn't supported in the article. Even the most famous of all quotes from Mao about how various production requirements would result in many deaths, we have the authors of books against Mao saying: “Working like this, with all these projects, half of China may well have to die.” Back to Joseph Ball's article, he says: This quotation appears in the heading of Chang and Halliday’s chapter on the Great Leap Forward. The way the authors present this quotation it looks as if Mao was saying that it might indeed be necessary for half of China to die to realize his plans to increase industrial production. In fact, their book (Mao: the Unknown Story which claims 70 million were killed by Mao) uses this quote as part of their proof for, as they say: "“We can now say with assurance how many people Mao was ready to dispense with.” But here is more of the context. Note what they left out: In this kind of situation, I think if we do [all these things simultaneously] half of China’s population unquestionably will die; and if it’s not a half, it’ll be a third or ten percent, a death toll of 50 million. When people died in Guangxi [1955], wasn’t Chen Manyuan dismissed? If with a death toll of 50 million, you didn’t lose your jobs, I at least should lose mine; [whether I would lose my] head would be open to question. Anhui wants to do so many things, it’s quite all right to do a lot, but make it a principle to have no deaths.22 . . . As to 30 million tons of steel, do we really need that much? Are we able to produce [that much]? How many people do we mobilize? Could it lead to deaths? -
Srecko Sostar reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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I was answering C.C. about 'When did God actually speak to the people" And of course we need to go to scripture for answers, but what i found raised a couple of questions. I'll quote scriptures first. Matthew 3 v 16 & 17. After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” Luke 3 v 21 & 22 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up, 22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.” John 1 v 32 -34 John also bore witness, saying: “I viewed the spirit coming down as a dove out of heaven, and it remained upon him. 33 Even I did not know him, but the very One who sent me to baptize in water said to me: ‘Whoever it is upon whom you see the spirit coming down and remaining this is the one who baptizes in holy spirit.’ 34 And I have seen it, and I have given witness that this one is the Son of God.” Mark 1 v 9- 11 In the course of those days, Jesus came from Nazʹa·reth of Galʹi·lee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. 10 And immediately on coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens being parted and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him. 11 And a voice came out of the heavens: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.” What I'm wondering is, who saw the Holy Spirit in the form of the dove 'coming down upon' Jesus ? And, Who heard the voice of God from heaven speaking ? The Matthew scripture shoes it as God speaking to the people, but Mark and Luke show it as God speaking to Jesus. The scripture in John (Apostle John) , tells us that John ( the Baptiser ) saw the spirit 'coming down' and 'remaining' on Jesus. Whereas Mathew and Mark say that he saw, that is Jesus saw, the spirit 'coming down' and remaining upon him. My point being here that Jesus came to be baptised when many others were being baptised. For instance, if 500 people were present and all 500 saw the dove descend and heard God's voice, then all 500 would have known (and believed) that Jesus is the son of God. But, if only John the Baptiser and Jesus saw the dove and heard God's voice then only the two of them would have known (and 'believed') it. Also am I right in thinking that Jesus wanted his 'work' kept secret at first ? Didn't Jesus tell some that he cured to 'tell no one'
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Patxi joined the community
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2 hours ago, César Chávez said: Where in scripture do you find God spoke directly to the people? Maybe here. I say maybe and I will start a new topic. Matthew 3 v 16& 17. After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
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Wow CC that is such an intelligent answer. But I don't expect any better from a worshiper of the GB. Keep serving your GB because they don't have long left in power. They will be replaced you know.
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4Jah2me reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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4Jah2me reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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4Jah2me reacted to a post in a topic:
When i strongly criticize WTJWorg + GB + Helpers, why is this same to you as criticizing God?
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1 Samuel 2 : 1-10
Hannah pria Dieu en ces mots:
Mon cœur se réjouit au sujet de Jéhovah
ma force grandit grâce à Jéhovah.
Ma bouche s’ouvre toute grande contre mes ennemis,
car je me réjouis de tes actes sauveurs.
Il n’y a personne qui soit saint comme Jéhovah,
il n’y a personne qui soit comme toi,
il n’y a pas de rocher comme notre Dieu.
Arrêtez de parler avec orgueil ;
que rien d’arrogant ne sorte de votre bouche,
car Jéhovah est un Dieu qui sait tout
et il juge les actions avec justice.
Les arcs des hommes forts sont brisés,
mais les hommes faibles reçoivent de la force
Ceux qui mangeaient bien doivent trouver du travail pour avoir du pain,
mais les affamés ne souffrent plus de la faim.
La femme stérile a donné naissance à sept fils,
mais celle qui avait beaucoup de fils est devenue stérile.
Jéhovah tue et il garde en vie,
il fait descendre dans la Tombe et il en fait remonter.
Jéhovah fait devenir pauvre et il fait devenir riche,
il abaisse et il élève.
Il relève le petit de la poussière
et fait remonter le pauvre du tas de cendres
pour les faire asseoir avec les princes
et leur offrir une place d’honneur.
À Jéhovah appartiennent les fondations de la terre ;
sur elles, il pose le monde
Il veille sur les pas de ses fidèles,
mais les méchants seront tués dans l’obscurité,
car ce n’est pas par la force que l’homme triomphe.
Jéhovah anéantira ceux qui combattent contre lui ;
pour exprimer sa colère, il fera gronder le tonnerre dans le ciel.
Jéhovah jugera jusqu’aux extrémités de la terre,
il donnera du pouvoir à son roi et il fera grandir la force de son oint.
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Hannah fut une femme qui exprima sa foi en Jéhovah. Elle a connu de son vivant la grandeur de son Dieu et elle avait une confiance réelle que Dieu pouvait exprimer en Hannah un " Don d'Amour" pour son souhait de donner son fils pour qu'il serve Jéhovah toute sa vie.
Samuel fut un juge et prête pendant son vivant et il fut droit, humble et obéissant devant Jéhovah.
Jéhovah fut bénédiction pour Hannah, car elle conçu un enfant et de cette prière fut révèlé que Jéhovah préparait Son fils Jésus Christ pour son grand rôle de Roi pour la gloire de Dieu.
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Do you try to make joke of me or of yourself? :)) We two, both have interactions here. Does this mean how you have intend to "replace" me with someone else? Who said Jesus had no "interactions" with people and institutions around him? :)) Perhaps not, but my position in that issue does not diminish the stated fact about other issue - secular structure, namely Court, asked WTJWorg for documents about CSA, and GB decided to not give documentation and help victims to find some sort of "justice and truth".
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I thought we agreed you weren't going to waste my time. I guess you word needs to be considered.
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Where in scripture do you find God spoke directly to the people? I love to read that, or are you mixing things. What is the "commission". You can find it in scripture. Where in scripture can I find Jesus had no interaction with Rome and its laws? You seem to be adding to scripture. Are you reading non-conical books? Have you fully understood what that secular structure entails? Or are you suggesting the Watchtower break those structured laws to please men and not God since scripture makes it clear to obey all authority. The Watchtower is bound to accepting those secular laws. If you have a problem with them, don't criticize the Watchtower for following Gods command but redirect yourself to your local secular authority. Just keep in mind, whatever laws come out of peoples complaints will be structured to meet "ALL" religion not just the Watchtower. When the Watchtower argued freedom of religion in America, the Supreme Court didn't say, This decision is made just for the Watchtower. Religious freedom became the law of the land for ALL.
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Anna reacted to a post in a topic:
The WEST's war of words against CHINA. Starting with the Uyghurs.
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@César Chávez In all your talk about Moses and Jesus do you forget how they both were inspired of God's holy Spirit ? I think that you are deliberately avoiding the point that the GB / Watchtower / CCJW are not inspired by Holy Spirit and are not even 'spirit led'. I think you also deliberately avoid the fact that the Apostle Paul was 'contacted directly by Jesus Acts 9 v 3-5 3 Now as he was traveling and getting near Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him, 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. And Paul did not go up to Jerusalem for the first THREE YEARS of his missionary work. Add to that the point that it was the Apostle Paul, who was not one of the Twelve, that wrote all the letters to the congregations, that we have in the Scriptures now. If you really think there was a 1st Century GB, then why weren't the letters written to the congregations from THEM ? As for questioning the CCJW / Watchtower, well all organisations have to be questioned. If a person is seriously looking to serve God properly then they will of course question / investigate / research any organisation / religion that they may be thinking of joining. And, just as importantly, if a person has information, good or bad, about an organisation, then it is right that they should make such information known publicly as a help to other people.
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Well, I a man NOT a troll, but if anyone wants to label me as one that is up to them. I read an reply on this thread, which mystified me, about Jesus being IN Tartarus. I have been around for some time a JW going on 50+ years and I have never heard that those angels were cast down INTO something that Jesus had to go to preach to them after his resurrection. That would mean these angels have been ABYSSED LONGER THAN 1000 years, and we all know Jehovah is perfectly fair, right? I understood this long before I became a JW. This thought would be the truth!
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People were thirsty and needed water, and they asked for water. They asked for water from Moses as God representative on Earth. In Bible there are a verses that said how we can ask from Father whatever we want and He will give us. Perhaps something else was behind Moses statement and his fear for life. Or as chapter 16 said; In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. This testings (of people and leadership) of all sorts are very common and often in Bible. Preach me more about this and "earthly spiritual power". Not so sure what is issue here, because of my English. Jesus said that he has nothing with this world. In that respect Jesus done nothing to "superseded" Roman power. Roman power belonged to "secular authorities" as God's servant, so i don't see what and why Jesus would have to done to "supersede" Roman or any other secular government in past or even today. Today, these "secular governments" doing same task as in the past, when Epistle to the Romans was written. Another issue is "theocratic government". Very good. Then why WTJWorg GB with own "theocratic structure of power" are not in subjection to "secular structure of power" and give CSA documentation to the Courts and other Institutions that investigate this problem, this crime (Australian Branch is exception)?
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The WEST's war of words against CHINA. Starting with the Uyghurs.
TrueTomHarley replied to JW Insider's topic in Topics
When you see such shenanigans in the present human interactions of entirely different spheres, you don’t assume that you are seeing it for the first time ever. Rather, you figure that this is but the latest example of what humans will do in pushing their own point of view. Thus, everything you say is plausible. Exaggeration, over-promotion, running the other side off the road, muddying the waters so the other side will give up, outright denial, seeing only what one wants to see: these are the stock in trade tools of humans. Whether right or wrong, to have someone assert it has been put to work here, as well, in the analysis of Chinese communism, is not shocking. It doesn’t speak well of our ability to “know” anything. If we may go from your “lofty” example to one of pop trivia, if there is one fixed star in Dylanography, it is that Bob was booed at the Newport Festival of folk music snobs because he forsook acoustic for electric. Not so, says Pete Seeger, who was there, and who is usually thought the foremost critic. It was because the sound was so garbled nobody could understand him, but the producers refused to fix it, saying “young people like it this way.” This is another reason that I like the Bible—it doesn’t make nearly the attempt to appeal to the head that it does the heart. Try to appeal to the head and you must compete with liars, frauds, loonies, and zealots. Try to appeal to the heart and it is a straight shot. Those too “educated” for the Bible might reflect on Carl Jung, who not only acknowledged that there is a spiritual side of things, but maintained that the spiritual side is the more genuine, the more real, the more true. The “statements of the conscious mind,” he says, “may easily be snares and delusions, lies, or arbitrary opinions, but this is certainly not true of statements of the soul.” When it comes to government, I very much like the Bible analogy of ancient rulership being like the heavens over mankind that might rain on you one moment, bless you will sunshine the next, blow away in a windstorm all you own in yet another moment, and there isn’t a thing you can do about it. For all the material advances in both education and “political science,” the reality is not so different today, but participatory government better presents the illusion that “we” are in control. Communism makes no bones about saying we’re not. Someone else is. You are cogs in someone else’s machine. You have no say. If you are going to take over someone’s life, you’d better not screw it up. For all practical purposes, most people have no say in Western government either, but they do have some. Put in $1000 worth of effort and you may see a $10 return. That’s not a lot, but people like the idea of control. Even in situations where communism might produce a $20 return, it will be opposed by many, as it goes against human nature. I took a public speaking course in college in which the professor coincidentally happened to be a huge advocate of participatory government. With student elections coming up—you know, nothing important, just who will run the Student Council of campus affairs—he relentlessly pushed for getting out the vote, and I got fed up. When it was my turn to plan and present my speech, I chose the topic, “Why we shouldn’t vote.” (This was before I knew anything about Jehovah’s Witnesses) I developed three reasons not to vote: 1) candidates lie, saying whatever they must to get elected. 2) Candidates “grow”—they reassess their views afterward—maybe for good or maybe for ill, but independent of your wishes. 3) Candidates may earnestly try to deliver, but find themselves outmaneuvered by those of opposite view. The upshot the three points is that it is just not worth it sinking that much time into politics—there are plenty of other things that offer better payoff. The professor was fairly sporting about it, mumbling that he didn’t agree but that I had raised solid points. He didn’t flunk me. I doubt it shows that at all. The success is more likely due to the Chinese people better capturing the spirit of Proverbs 6:6: “Go to the ant, you lazy one, consider its ways, and become wise.” Substitute only “cooperative” for “lazy” and you have a perfect fit. China had an “industrial revolution” that precedes that of the West by almost 1000 years—Mao had nothing to do with it. “In the State of Wu of China, steel was first made, preceding the Europeans by over 1,000 years. The Song dynasty saw intensive industry in steel production, and coal mining. No other premodern state advanced nearly as close to starting an industrial revolution as the Southern Song,” says Wikipedia. Only lack of a middle class, Wiki speculates, prevented that early revolution from catching on, something that makes a hero of Henry Ford, for realizing that without someone to buy his products, he could only go so far. One author I came across raised the point of Chinese cooperation due to long-engrained Confucian value system that emphasizes responsibly and holds that the group is more important than the individual—and asks whether that isn’t the very antithesis of Thomas Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence, that holds as “self-evident” the individual’s right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. I think his point is well-taken. The only trouble with too much “group-think” is that it is easy for a scoundrel to insert himself at the head and direct the body per his will. -
Srecko, remind yourself who the first administrator of Jewish law was. Who had to offer guidelines to Moses because the People(Israelites) began to complain? Exodus 17:4 Hebrews 11:24-27 What was the outcome and resolution in Exodus 17:5-6. Did God direct Moses directly to the people? Or did he direct Moses to gather in front of the rock in Horeb to see the power of God through the eyes of the Elders that still held their prominent roles as leaders? Then you come to Jesus that now becomes that force to direct an old nation in a new way. A way that now includes none Jews. Did the Jewish nation "accept" this new condition? Now Jesus directs and delegates the power of establishment to the apostles. The apostles still have to go before a structured committee. Then Jesus expands Gods earthy spiritual power to others. At what point do you believe Jesus superseded the secular power of Rome that can be applied in today's world? When Did God give that secular power over the Jews in Babylonian days? Be it direct or indirect, The power and authority belongs to God. By questioning how earthly structure should be to satisfy the needs and wants of the people will ultimately be applied by God. That is accepted by a true Christian. Anyone questioning it is once again questioning God himself regardless if its from a point of view coming from the outside looking in, or from inside looking at it from a worldly perspective.
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Thank you for not wasting my time. Personal opinions can be tasking.
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I think how "papers and administration" are complicated almost everywhere in the world. :)) From this, should we, could we conclude how Bible is not enough for WTJWorg Administration today, to manage things about "God's earthly mountain-like organization" on 1st century Christian Congregation foundation and example?? And next, if "inspired by holy spirit" was only thing what make 1st century Christian Congregation to be successful and according to God's will and inside Jesus' teachings, don't we have problem today, because people in Management of this organization (GB+Helpers+Lawyers+Elders) are just "guided by spirit"?? According to WT publications "guided by spirit" means plenty of err doctrines and instructions. If we add, as you said; complexity internally, modern society is a lot more complex, cannot organize things the same way, would be inefficient today - what guaranties JW members have that their's organization is in harmony with principles established by Jesus and how this modern organization is copy-paste (type-antitype) of 1st Congregation as role model, despite fact how all was drastically changed after almost 2000 years? Do not forget how 1st Congregation made, not just mistakes in teachings and guiding members, but ended in apostasy. If these happened to people who was "inspired by spirit", how much worst it can be for people who are lower on that "spiritual scale" - namely "guided by spirit"?
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Bonjour Eric, merci pour cet exposé sur Hanna, Bonne journée. Michel· 1 reply
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