Arauna

Sostar , do you know about the government of God that will rule in future? Do you know how this government going to work? Do you know that Jesus was raised by his father Jehovah after his soul and body was BOTH dead? Do you know the purpose that Jehovah had for the earth when he created the earth? Do you know who made satan? Do you know who is in control of the world right now? Give me answer please....have you spoken to JWs about this?.

Witness - your words spoken from your mouth is judging you - you are doing exactly that, for which reason I quoted the scripture. You have a blind spot for yourself - no wisdom - I leave the judgment to God. You go round and round in circles to try and prove yourself correct. ... trying to deceive others to follow you. I have seen this attitude before.... There is NO spirit of Jehovah there..... ! Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem (government under Jesus) Hebrews 12:22 which is now leading the slave. You twist things to suit yourself. Additionally, you have not answered my questions. Do you preach every day in public? And do you belong to a congregation where you can attend meetings? You know you are told to do both by scripture! And if you do preach - do you preach about the Kingdom? That is a future government? with subjects on earth? And a government of 144,000 in heaven? Jesus was really dead for 3 days because he did not have an immortal soul ? Jesus is not God and we pray through him to God. Where did you learn all that? was it by yourself ? or by this group that you now despise? The most important TEACHINGS are SPOT ON.... ! They are now also focusing more on Christian living and Christian personality - more than ever before. While there is time - I suggest you do some good INTROSPECTION. If I was an elder - I would have removed you real quick from the congregation because you come with an insidiousness like no other. And this is my final communication with you.

Sostar : Do you need passport to go to another country? Do you need identification from your country to show where you come from? This is worldly or secular stuff I was referring to. You cannot go out from this world - you need to comply with the law. You need to register a business. When you have people working for you - you need order and you need finance to support them... to buy food and pay electricity...for them. This is things I am talking about. I did not mean that we must be worldly in our personality.... so I think you were misunderstanding me.

These extreme answers are not spoken from wisdom but self-interest.

Obviously you have never seen a real stoning! Not associating with someone cannot be compared to stoning - it is comparing a rock with a banana.

Again the scriptures are used out of its context! You apply the scriptures to your own way of thinking! Israel had a literal building where they used to go and worship - it was part of the system - the pathway Jehovah chose for them to worship as a nation. The building would be destroyed in future to indicate that acceptance of worship at this place was not longer acceptable to God. Jesus fulfilled every aspect of the temple so it was redundant. Now we worship in spirit and truth - and we do not regard the kingdom halls as buildings needing veneration. They are put separate (holy) for worship of Jehovah through his son. I have never seen a JW put their face towards the USA and make the 'organization a place of worship. To speak of accomplishment is not worship. Most organizations in the world that are so very large are run by peopleCEOs who earn MILLIONS of dollars a year. The GB are doing it as a 'group' of simple men without worldly degrees and they get their plate of food and a roof over their head for that.... We were cautioned recently that we should not even ask to have a photo taken with one of the governing body. So they do not get worship but do a function - of organizing the preaching world-wide and feeding the flock. Yes, there are silly people who put them on a pedestal - but those are people who do not have the correct perspective on what the bible teaches..... they still have to grow spiritually. I bet you are not preaching every day - Jesus said 3 times to Peter - feed my sheep! If you are not doing this to the best of your ability you are only benefitting yourself and do not have a basic understanding of your Christian duties. You are also supposed to meet regularly. Where do you meet regularly? I have often thought about the fact that Satan can make it appear to people that they are anointed....... but when you watch these people ...... they are very self-centered..... and usually are a cause for division in the congregation.....In the end Jehovah is the judge. Satan has always used those whom he can manipulate and usually they feel they are more special than anyone else. Saul was humble - Jehovah chose him - but his office made him lose his humility. Since the most soft-spoken people can also be haughty - I reserve judgment...... but I believe that these are the ones who can do the most damage to the true Kingdom heirs. There are many indications of a 'governing body' when the congregation started in Jerusalem and spread throughout the Hellenistic world - which you deny in your words... because you do not acknowledge the GB. Paul went to testify in front of James and the brothers in Jerusalem and they made the final decision about the circumcision. This is an indication of humility on Paul's part because he did not make the decision himself but went up to the men who were appointed with the task. He did however, chastise Peter for his hypocrisy in front of others. How do you think the world-wide work should be organized at present to get uniformity? The prophecy in Matt 24:14 has to be fulfilled - do you not think so? One needs to have a branch registered in every country - by law. To say they are secular because they are legally registered is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. This is short-sighted thinking and putting yourself on high. These worldly rulers can and will (in future) destroy those registered offices very quickly if they want to - proof is in Russia! Does this mean that the brothers cannot go on without the GB? No they have been given the nourishment and knowledge by the GB to go on as a group of Jehovah's people - truly identified by their neutrality regarding world events. But I bet they long to hear encouragement from the world-wide brotherhood! You are quoting scriptures which indicate that these people in the time of the apostles were anointed and sealed. That is correct. A seal is a stamp of authenticity......which is obtained after the anointing and Jehovah will not seal anyone if they have not proved absolutely faithful. Jesus was speaking to those future anointed when he said: The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire. The hate speech against the governing body on this forum is showing the fruits clearly. I do not fall for the deceitful "holiness" or "righteousness" I see here. Mr Rook: Your hope can be dashed to get the transcripts. You are setting yourself up for disappointment and then you will have a new rod to beat the GB with. As I said before - they do not have time for petty requests from every Tom Dick and Harry. They cannot follow through on every deviant request. Their responsibility is the spiritual food. Any case if you understand the structure of the Russian government you will know that the justice department is subject to the government. Not like in USA where it is independent..... and supposed to be unbiased. But what I have seen lately makes me think that the checks and balances are not as strong as they looked before in USA - the supreme court is highly politicized and prone to make 'party' decisions. Most Americans do not understand how other countries function. Russia is a totalitarian (oligarchy) government which controls everything. To think that a vestige of justice will be found there is ludicrous. They have killed off all their human rights lawyers and anyone talking against the regime in the past 13 years. Remember the Russian who was killed with plutonium - in London? Journalist who write about injustices are assassinated. It is a powerful thugocracy. Putin has filled his own coffers and those of his friends who are all rallying around him. Those who do not play the game are put in prison on trumped up charges and their wealth divided to friends. Again: The GB is not there to fulfill every personal request UNrelated to the preaching work with satisfactory 'service'.

They cannot cater to individuals - I think there is a handful who want to read it ...... and the opportunities were there before. I read some of it. ...... so obviously you are ignoring my previous comment or you do not like the answer.

I agree with your on the serial gripers! The hinges are on the ........

I am not here to determine if people have a mental illness - I just respond to what they say or do which is a reflection of their thoughts.

When people bring in their own teachings and try to promote their own thoughts they are acting directly against Christ. We were warned about this were we not? They say their tongue is sweet but the fountain is pure poison to those who listen to them. They try to sow doubt with the inexperienced - they are cunning deceivers - and it comes from the ego. I have not much love for those who try to mislead the inexperienced! And I see many of them here. I am not over-reacting.... or vitriolic. It is serious when people bring disruptive teachings here without their contributions being contested!

Apologies - Mr S Sostar indicated that we use OT scriptures....

The other answer of Witness shows ignorance regarding procedures of JWs ......or a deliberate twisting of the facts. We use scriptures in the 'New Testament' for not associating with those who have become apostates..... not the Old testament. 'Witness' made the accusation that we are inherently violent and would stone if we could - that is a blatant lie! We would not be following Christ if we had a violent attitude when Jesus said we must love our enemies - especially those who do not love Christ. I work every day amongst people who could kill me and if circumstances change they most probable will! A pioneer sister recently had her throat cut while on field service. We carefully work amongst our enemies who have personalities like wolves. However - the principles are different for those amongst us who have gone back to their "vomit" - apostates. Those people are avoided as they pose a threat to our spirituality and a threat to the morality and unity of the congregation. The instruction from the scriptures are not to greet or not to eat with these people. This means that we must avoid association. THEY are the ones who turn hostile and show their true personality because they still want to associate with us but resent having to stick to the principles laid down by Jesus through the apostles. If you want to belong to a golf club - you have to stick to the rules. If not - you are let go. Why do people expect JWs to tolerate all kinds of bad behavior when organizations in the WORLD do not even tolerate it? Their logic is faulty because they are blind to the problem that they have a problem with the authority of Christ and do not want to obey his principles. They deem themselves above the law of Christ. 2 John 9-11

I worked as a reporter and then as a public relations officer for a few large organizations - sitting in on all the board meetings etc. to publicize the companies' strategy. I speak from a worldly perspective - a business perspective. I would not keep redundant workers if my business suffered. Companies do not exist to be a gravy train - but people expect the JW organization to be NICE and IN-efficient - just because it is a spiritual organization? They expect the organization to keep on "supporting certain individuals" even if their job has become obsolete?..... With money that other witnesses pay for furthering the preaching work? What makes this individual so special that he gets supported for life but thousands of other volunteers in the field have to work hard and do their preaching without assistance from the GB. Everyone knows when they enter Bethel that it may be for a long time or a short time but their tenure is not assured.... it is volunteer work after all. They can leave any time..... Personal vendettas and these kind of things have no place in the organization. We are not different to other people - the same as everyone else. The only difference is that one cannot remain a Witness without Jehovah's spirit. So, if for some reason you have neglected your relationship with Jehovah it will show in a bad attitude! ....especially towards others..... You start beating on brothers. I know of very few brothers and sisters who have not had reason to complain...about some perceived unfairness...by someone.... because this world is not perfect and not all brothers act as they should..... but most forgive and get on with the work and keep the unity. Other people turn nasty and pamper their victimhood! Like an obstructive child!

Watched your video - first of all - they have not built and sold and built and sold buildings. Those buildings in Brooklyn were the head-offices since they acquired them until now. They needed to get out of that area. I read and article which explained this. Technology has changed and so has logistics. Many of the films are outsourced to different branches. We have much less magazines being printed now. Every branch gets a video to produce - and why is he politicizing this? It is easier for the GB to delegate. We are not an American company. Our branches are registered all over the world - it is law. The GB only oversee the most important function - the food at proper time - and delegate this! So we are an international organization. I smell a nationalistic USA-rat in these comments and you fell for it hook line and sinker! When one serves Jehovah one chooses a life-long career and serves 'where ever' you can. If one goes to serve in the building area you get skills you did not have before and can go and open a small business of your own afterward. Most pioneers (outside Bethel) do not have that! They get by on part-time work wherever they can find it to do the preaching work. I do not see them whining! BUT the other side of the coin is: some opportunistic individuals want to get into Bethel so they can have a long and "secure" career while getting a roof over their head and a plate of food every day. I am sorry, my heart does not cry for someone who professes to have had all the right motives and then after he is let go, shows that he did not have all the right motives after all - and then lets a brother go and smear his brothers as if they have done him a grave injustice! It reminds me of Cain..... Jehovah told him to not let the evil control him.... and he did not get control of it. Now this poor soul has to work for a living like everyone else! After being in a cozy institutionalized position he is angry because it is not perpetuated! When you let people go it is usually the ones who are not bringing their full share or do jobs that are no longer needed - am I right? Any company in the world works this way. Why should they tolerate hangers-on who is more of a burden than an asset? His attitude may have got him fired... so whiney and this brother gave him all the wrong advice - he is not a helpless individual..... he must stand up and be a man. Most pioneers clean buildings to pioneer! I know several of them - and they do it cheerfully! You do not need skills for that. He can do that. .... but no .... he is whining because he now has a "reality" hitting him and he has to take responsibility for his own life! We are living in the 21 century - technology changing all the time. When there was a lot of printing to do (in 20th century) it was the case that they looked after you until after retirement! He wants the world-wide brothers pay for his keep until he dies because he willingly donated some of his time to them? My advice to him.... grow up and be a man! And your deviant personality is showing by posting this video! You have no wisdom- only some knowledge! Revelation is misapplied.... like many of your other scriptures quoted. You think because you intimate that you are anointed that you have special skills or "insight" that no-one else has. You forget - there is a final sealing before the end. Now you find yourself without a congregation - and there is an instruction from Jehovah to meet with brothers in Hebrews 10. You are not keeping this command - be aware of that! There are many other commands you are breaking by "beating your brothers" publically. If I put myself in your shoes- say if you were right on many things - you are still running ahead...... We have instruction from Jesus not to do this. You are stuck on you own ego and having to be "right" and be praised for having the organization change to your special insights! You reject their correction and willfully go ahead with your own ideas. Soft-spoken and willful. (I had some ideas of my own...... but I have held them back..... I have not run ahead of the organization...... just like Jesus did.) He had no ego because he only spoke what his father had given him and he served perfectly until death. Satan wanted undue attention and his desires got him in the position he is in today. It was not about "truth" to him was about being the one with the special light! You have the same attitude I see with many apostates. You ignore the bits you do not want to see and just answer the bits you can and then you go around and around on the same track and mislead those who fall for your ideas. I call it the one mind track - the nihilistic and destructive track. I believe that wisdom is knowledge which is applied - not just knowledge! I agree with the brothers - there is time to look at yourself or go ahead on your destructive path! And admit it - by posting this video your hate is showing. John said: without love for brothers it is impossible to please Jehovah!

I usually try to disprove ideas.... but sometimes one cannot help notice that it is always the same people who display downright hostility to our organization in their words. NO personal offense but I have called you out on occasion because I am protective of the newbies on here that may be taken in by the thoughtless words expressed. Also - I am sincere when I say that I hope all to attain life and feel it is my responsibility to assist others to see when they rant on too much about their personal pet-criticisms. No skin lost, I hope.