Arauna

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Arauna last won the day on July 18

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  1. Tut - tut - with so many feelings hurt...... this is turning into a kiddies circus!
  2. Frankly - it is not about pleasing your weird wishes - we also do not accept your challenges, even if you call us cowards. People who have left us - we do not worry about them. If their heart is right they will find their way back. It is the ones who think they know it all and have found bliss in the great big world out there but yet, they cannot help themselves to come to websites where they know they will find Witnesses - and then obsessively troll them. There is something OCD about those who have left Jehovah on bad terms...... they obsessively come back with dubious intentions. I have seen this over and over again. Many of them seem to suffer from this OCD phenomena. This alone should tell you - there is some kind of problem. Stalking (even on internet) is a problem. So, I do not need no study to tell me that some do have emotional problems. Seriously - if their lives were happy and they have found wonderful new goals - they will leave the past behind and get on with their lives and look to the future. But they cannot. They cannot get on with their lives because they cannot let go. If I were a psychologist I would say they need help to leave - totally.
  3. Nana thanks for your kind input. I actually wanted the squabbling people on this forum to think on the questions and keep occupied with positive stuff....... Here is my take on it: The moment Jehovah decided to restore the earth he determined that a future government will do the job during a 1000 year rule. However, the legal issues raised, had to be dealt with first. Jesus came to prove that Adam was really created perfect and was fully capable to make the right choices. Jesus was the exact equivalent of Adam but under much more pressure proved faithful until death (he lived a singularly dedicated life with no thought of following any of his own aspirations) and therefore was worthy to be the future ruler. He, as a perfect man, proved that Adam could have stayed faithful and with his life paid the legal equivalent of what Adam lost. His life provided the legal guarantee that the restoration of the earth is a reality. On the basis of His life, future life could be given back to those who died under the penalty of sin. (you know all this - but I am getting to another point) Jesus not only suffered as a human but would understand how humans feel. Having lived in heaven before and on earth as a human - he answered the questions raised in the entire universe. He answered the questions raised by Satan (heavenly creature who proved unfaithful) and that of Adam (earthly creature who proved unfaithful). He was made lower than all the other angels (whom he helped create) and remained faithful until death. He suffered in his lowly state and learnt more obedience under these circumstances - enhancing his perfection. It is interesting that it was in Jehovah's plan for there to be 144000 rulers with Jesus. Jehovah, in his foresight, covers any possible logical question that may be raised in future. Early on, in revealing his purpose, he promised Israel that the 144000 would come from their ranks. But when the full number did not come from israel in the time of Jesus - the invitation also went out to the other nations on the basis of Jesus' ransom sacrifice. So what if the question was raised that Jesus could not understand how imperfect people feel who were subject to sinful inclinations from birth? We will have 144000 of those kind who will also have proven faithful under extreme pressure due to their own human imperfection on earth. Of course - we will only understand fully how the new government will work when it has arrived. Just like human parliaments today - we will have a body of people who represent us - not democratically - but people whom Jehovah has sealed an approved after a life of loyal service and of course great mercy from Jehovah. These people understand the great mercy of Jehovah because they themselves feel absolutely unworthy of the task but have learnt to trust in Jehovah to do his will. They are personally so attached to the person of Jehovah that nothing else matters. (And most of them have suffered in some way..... unbeknownst to us. Many do not dwell on this but pummel themselves to get on with serving Jehovah. They do not wallow in self-pity or self-preservation.) We will fully understand all the things needed to be done on earth to restore it only when we live under that future government. So maybe 144000 sounds like a lot - but they will be needed - for sure! Jehovah is purposeful in all his decisions! It will also be a large job to restore the humans to the condition that Jehovah originally planned. How Jehovah will organize the heavenly and earthly part of his organization we will have to wait and see and also wait for those new scrolls to be opened with new instructions. What is interesting is that all of us will go through the final test at the end of the 1000 years and face the same test as perfect people - just like Adam did. Jehovah is perfectly balanced in his justice and the test at the end of the 1000 year reign proves that his justice is equal for all! Those who receive a resurrection will all benefit equally from the ranson sacrifice as it will then be fully applied to bring everything to perfection. Jehovah also logically covers every legal aspect which we have not even thought about! Indications in scripture are that some will fail at the end of the 1000 years (undetermined number - because Jehovah does not predetermine sin and then punish sin - it would be unjust). These perfect people who deliberately choose to return to the imperfect state will immediately be removed because all legal questions will have been answered; and legal precedents are already in place (proof that humans or angels - independent from Jehovah's moral standards - cannot create a successful/just/loving society). These precedents are in place for any future rebellion and will provide the legal basis to remove them immediately! Frankly - after living in this crazy world - and then in a beautiful paradise - it would be suicide to choose independence from Jehovah's moral standards..... but satan and his demons (perfect angels) chose this and many sane humans. We all know how it feels when a rebellious child turns against the parents and lives a downward spiraling life - this is what they did to Jehovah! Jehovah's moral standards are the only standards which can make any society function perfectly without laws and rules. We all will be free without anyone telling us what to do. We all will obey Jehovah from free choice and we will be responsible for the self-control of our own desires (which can lead to imperfection if not controlled) and every decision which may impact another person or animal in a moral way.
  4. Thanks for your 'sane' perspective - very true, just like satan they are pure evil - but it is going against the nature of God and the way we were created...... there must be serious mental affects after their decisions...to be serial murderers like satan. In England and some European states the sex crime rings are getting away with serious crimes against children. The governments are following the 'pressure' of the UN and EU and are using their limited police resources to "police" the internet. Not to catch sex crime rings on the dark net but to monitor the general public who visit far right web sites or extremist web sites and those who say anything about a certain faith which 'believes it to be their duty' to bomb people into submission. Quite a large number of people have already been taken into custody and face charges for posting stupid stuff on Facebook. This is the level of injustice going on in the world - and the truly wicked are getting a free pass. And then people quote totally bias 'old studies' which were done by suspiciously bias people for the sole purpose to show that Witnesses have serious mental issues - really? Woke up this morning and thought about that "sea of humankind" in Isaiah 57... "20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt." I work in a massive field which is really like a volatile, stormy sea.... one has to really keep on going and just sound the warning without hoping for much success. Every one needs to be warned. Yesterday's bombing of 305 people dead in Egypt - 305 families lost their father and livelihood! and many more injured... To me these incidents are extremely heart breaking because of the social construct those wives and children face extreme hardship! It is Muslim killing Muslim ......and yet when you mention something like this there is just excuses, excuses... The mental condition of the entire world is seriously ill!! There is no more logic thinking or common sense in any sphere of life..... and the worst is still to come... When the next generation in the West starts to vomit up more 'mire" from the sea of insane "post-modern" philosophy, which is now responsible for so much problems at the universities and many militant clashes, then we will see the next phase of the world condition of human insanity.......we ain't seen nothing yet.
  5. Thanks for the video. How do you classify people as lower classes? By their degrees? Just look at some of the film makers and world leaders with high qualifications who have been accused of abnormal sexual activities in recent weeks. The methods used in the so-called studies were totally unscientific to say the least. I would love to see a study where they DO NOT KNOW who is a witness and who not - this will be fair and just and rule out any predetermined bias. To keep up with a busy life and do what witnesses do, I would think that one needs to function on a pretty high level of competence to maintain such a tight schedule.... and they stay reasonable even though they are put under pressure for their faith every day. They face injustice and bias. Unfortunately when psychiatrists start to give patients medication for bipolar (without the person really being bi-polar) the nature of the medicine is such that it puts great imbalance in the chemical balance of the person and they are stuck in a cycle of taking this medicine for life! I do not trust psychiatrists - they give out dangerous pills like sweets. In really severe cases where a definite need is established, I would not criticize, but we all know it is like an industrial complex - pills are prescribed because it keeps the coffers of the pharmaceutical companies full. A fair comparative study of the world and witnesses right now, will bring an even larger gap in numbers since most of the world is using all kinds of serious drugs and this includes Russia, middle east and most western countries. The use and proliferation of drugs has absolutely sky-rocketed! together with immorality and crime. Study the criminality and mental health of the population and you will see that most of these terrorist killers are now classified as mentally ill to get lesser prison sentences. We all know it is the crazy fundamentalist ideology driving this. But one does not see them publishing studies on it - one is not even allowed to say anything publically - then you are called names and these terrorists have been responsible for more than 30,000 attacks world wide since 9/11. (This excludes far-left and far-right ideological groups) Most witnesses (with or without) a mental illness are totally harmless to other people. It is rare that they would kill another person. While sexual misconduct has been tolerated in the world in the past - and did not receive the attention it should have amongst the elite - it is now (at last) being spoken of and we can see the prevalence of it. The powerful can 'cover' their tracks and get away with it and some can be classified as sociopaths or some other nasty label. The few deviant witnesses who have perpetrated sexual crimes have received an inordinate amount of attention in the press in the past. While other serious sexual criminals have been getting away with it. I am now thinking of the sexual crime rings (pedophilia) which has been covered up for years in Scotland, Ireland and UK - to just name 3 countries. Just this week they busted a crime ring (Russia and Italy) where videos were made with children being ill-treated so bad and then "snuffed". And there is a big underworld business for this! So don't talk of 'mental illness' amongst witnesses because most of them would not stoop to this level of debasement. One needs to be seriously mentally ill to be curious to snuff out children and watch sadistic videos with children - I do not see any studies on this!
  6. Answer this question - who are the subjects of the Kingdom going to be if everyone is going to heaven? How do the rulers and the subjects fit in with Jehovah's purpose? What is the new heaven and the new earth spoken of so many times in the new testament? And what are the fruits that people will produce? What example did Jesus set? Was it not the preaching of the kingdom (future government to restore Jehovah's original purpose for the earth? (Ephesian 1:9 9 making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Himself, 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, which are in heaven and on earth.) Are we not supposed to preach out of compassion for all people so they can improve their life now and in future? Do not bluff anyone - true anointed show a zeal for the kingdom and do as much as they can to preach......because they are obedient to Jesus and loyal to that government. This is an important question to understand the logic of Jehovah's purpose:- Why was it in Jehovah's purpose to appoint 144000 co-rulers after mankind sinned? Have you thought about that? Really, really thought about it? I would like your opinions.... and the answer is very logical.....
  7. I came to Sweden this year and one of the very young (baptized) immigrants partook. She had a little daughter.. Her behavior was very immature - so I had my doubts and did not verbalize it - but realized she needed some guidance and help, not censure. Sometimes people do have issues without realizing it. .. so we should not be judgmental. While the GB acknowledges this may be the case with some people, I have never seen them condemn someone for stopping to partake. There are people who realize they have made a mistake. in any case, it is a personal matter and we cannot expect anointed to be without flaws - most have quite visible ones and they need our support. The other side of the coin is that Jehovah will never choose anyone whom he does not think can remain faithful to the end. (He does not set anyone up for failure but chooses spiritually mature people who have been through the mill), The anointed must be very careful because they do not want to be one of those ten virgins (illustration) who did not have enough oil in her lamp to keep shining until the final sealing and bridegrooms arrival.
  8. I have been reading a bit of psychology and have watched some videos on philosophy etc. regarding the human condition. Most psychologists/philosophers worth their salt (doing research at university - an know what they are doing - because there are not many), know that the human condition is not flawed but downright malevolent - yes malevolent. (No man has not sinned). They will quote the mass killings in recent human history (and 20th century) and all the deviations going on around us, to prove how bad the human condition actually is. Some predict that we are now entering the worst time in human history - an end to human civilization as we know it. Some say that an attachment to Christian-Judeo values has kept mankind from the most debased practices and given us some human rights - but now with post-modernism philosophy all objective values of right and wrong are being thrown out together with the Bible and everything it stands for. Debased practices will openly become part of the human condition soon....... and one can see that as a moral society we are going down fast. To think that Witnesses are above this debased state is silly. It is our education in Jehovah's ways that have dignified us somewhat. This is why we are warned to wage constant war against our own inclinations by Paul and other bible writers, who wrote under inspiration. We are all unbalanced, debased and in a sorry state - to think otherwise is to bamboozle yourself. So we all have something mentally unbalanced somewhere - just depends on the degree. Sin and all the other things going on in this system is crouching at our door - all the time. Just depends if we let it in. However, when we lift ourselves out of this condition and try very hard to obey Jehovah with all effort, then we can get his approval and a measure of his spirit - if we humble ourselves to ask for it. When we maintain our relationship with Jehovah then we can uplift ourselves and this in turn positivizes us, makes us aware that we need to show compassion and take care of each other tenderly. These qualities we develop gives us dignity and of course the promises of future blessings gives us hope... and yes - it is something to smile about when we share it with others. So when we start with any form of deviant behavior (away from Jehovah) then we become a wild card. What will come out of it we ourselves do not even know - like the waves of the sea being thrown hither and tither. So this is why it is important to stay close to Jehovah by regularly reading his word and listening to the warnings of the slave - even if it does look like they are talking down to us.... Staying away from porn, bad movies etc. elevates us and helps us to stay a little more balanced in an increasingly deviant world. The human condition is so dire and seriously sick that we all should be very afraid to go there.
  9. I agree - Bethel will not cure people who already have problems.... Immature to think that. However, some of the examples mentioned above was a way out - to not face severe physical torture at the hands of enemies..... and also pride. I guess this can also be a motivation today but young people are usually motivated by other reasons. I knew of one handsome young man who was in love with a worldly girl at school and for some reason became depressed. He impulsively committed suicide and ruined his poor mothers life.
  10. I do not know. But I would comment that a person who has certain problems can commit suicide wherever they are and as soon as the right circumstances appear. It does not matter what the religion and the people around one. I have read quite extensively about physical issues that can contribute to mental issues. We all know that continuous stress, as an adult or a child, can change the chemistry of the body. There is enough evidence to show that chemical imbalances can trigger schizophrenia, is responsible for autism and many more conditions that can relate to mental illness. There is a doctor who healed her child from severe autism by replenishing the bodies' flora' - and with this I mean the good bacteria that was non-existent. There are many hormones produced in the intestines that rely on good bacteria in the intestines. (They found a shortage of serotonin in schizophrenia.) Over use of antibiotics and chemicals in water etc... has decimated many people's first line of defense regarding mental and physical health in the intestines. No wonder the digestive system has been called the 'second brain'. Pollution and many other factors are starting to surface as major contributing factors to mental illnesses. I honestly believe that mental illness is not just a psychological disease but has its origins in the imbalance of chemicals/hormones in the body. Of course, not all mental illness comes from physical diseases as there are other contributing phenomena. People who dabble in satanism and drugs (which can cause schizophrenia) or other forms of entertainment /practices forbidden by God, know that they are treading a fine line where their conscience can be severely damaged as well. So, what we expose ourselves to mentally of course will also affect us spiritually and we can lose our spiritual balance if we reject the guidelines of Jehovah. But we do know that Jehovah is a just god - and he knows us all intimately. We cannot bamboozle him - only ourselves.... So he is the final judge of all and he will take all things into consideration. Our knowledge is very limited - and he knows this - for sure! It has been found that people who commit suicide can be impulsive and lose sight of reality...temporarily. It is this impulsive streak which has contributed to many young people's deaths by their own hand - similar to risk taking. They are not yet mature to recognize this in themselves. (Serotonin is known to give calmness to a person...)
  11. @Srecko Sostar Good to ask questions. Do you remember how Jehovah warned Cain that he was going to do bad if he did not get control of it? ( gen 4: 7. If you do well, shall you not be accepted?[a] But if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must rule over it.” He asked him if he was going to allow this to dominate him. Cain had no self-control and did exactly that. So did the direct intervention of the creator stop Cain from going ahead with his vile act? No. Similarly - the Pharisees killed Jesus even though they knew of the many miracles and tried to stop it being talked about by the people. They also tried to stop his resurrection by posting a guard......they were unrepentant. Jehovah is justice - so if he thought that someone could help Judas - surely he would have let someone see it? Judas could have stopped himself by self control but he went over and beyond his conscience many times in the past. Eventually his devious practices got the better of him. It is a lesson for us all today. 'Do not think you are standing......'. So we all need to be just and walk humbly with Jehovah - knowing our own limitations and weaknesses. Thankfully - in the end Jehovah is justice - and he will never let anyone go if there is a possibility that they could turn their life around..... even those in death. He will give all a resurrection who may change - so there is hope.... we are not without hope - especially those who have acted rashly and stupidly because of inexperience or youth.
  12. First of all - there are physical bodies and spiritual bodies. If angels had physical bodies they would disintegrate if they moved at the speed of light - hence they have bodies which are different to ours for the dimensions they move in - spiritual bodies. What is a spiritual body and when does it get immortality? ... and what is immortality.....still no answer from you. I agree with you on this only - which I think you were trying to say.... is that we have fleshly bodies but we no longer live for fleshly desires. However, once immortality is obtained and a spiritual body - the person can no longer live on earth. Similar to Christ (who said that his fleshly body was prepared for him by Jehovah to offer up in sacrifice on earth - he cannot take his earthly sacrifice back) these people have completed their course on earth and have given up future prospects of living on earth with family. They have a different job to do and at the end of the thousand years when they have completed bringing the earth back to its original purpose.....they will receive some other task - no doubt. I see NO signs of the earth being restored do you? In actual fact the earth is being ruined - as predicted.....You say Jesus has already ruled for 1000 years?????? There is just too much in what you said which does not make sense (the way the GB put it out there is logic) and I would love to challenge it but thankfully I really do not have time to waste on such a tedious endeavor.... and it does not accomplish anything, except frustration. I think for now - that taco is about as much as I can get my head around..... No, I think I will have some milk tart - a traditional sweet tart.
  13. Witness, You just answer what you feel like answering - and it is the same old same........you do not seem to fathom that the first resurrection gives one a heavenly body (flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom) and immortality.... to come back to earth in 'flesh' to rule or have a materialized body ????? for thousand years ....... and then go back to heaven when the job is completed? I have not seen any scriptures to that effect - and I seem to think you have not read the scriptures where it discusses the kinds of heavenly bodies they will receive. Your sense of reality is not what it should be.... sorry to have to tell you this.... What does immortality mean? And by the way you did not answer my last question I sent you before....... It is a test...... because I do not think you can answer it.... Short and sweet answers my dear..... I am not willing to argue with you any more - I think you are fake! and I hope others on this page are not taken in by your teachings.
  14. 'By their fruits you shall know them.' All I see is defensive talk on defending yourself and accusing others of being 'deluded'. Your version of the "truth" is more important to you and in effect you have become your own god - defending yourself and incapable of working in harmony with others. I have seen no thankfulness at all in your comments. The most important things you learnt from those very people whom you now despise are: Jehovah's name, the mortality of the soul, Jesus is not God, and many more teachings - with which - by the way - you would not understand the 'ransom' properly to be able to receive any mercy from Jehovah in the first place - if you did not understand these basic teachings of the bible properly. Where did you learn them? At present, the pupil thinks he knows more than the teacher and has come to despise him.....seen that a lot in my life. You find yourself outside the organization - not because you were a positive attribute to it but an unrepentant distractor and accuser..... and you are hardened in that spirit. Your suffering is what you brought on yourself - it is not others who are doing this to you - yourself. Acknowledge this fact and you may get some healing. It is like the drunk who refuses to acknowledge they have a problem! Drunk with your own wine! Knowing many scriptures does not qualify one for remaining an anointed but an extremely humble spirit and a spirit of "serving" others not a spirit of knowing it all... The famous quote from 1Corinthians 8 : Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know it as he should know it..... And as I said before - one can find oneself to be one of the five virgins with no oil to keep the lamps burning. That illustration was given by Jesus as a warning to the anointed! Added point: About your impractical ranting regarding the 'priesthood' that needs to be acknowledged now. ..... During the thousand years is the time when the priesthood will be working with Jesus to get the earth restored and our sins removed..... not now. They will then rule and officiate as priests...... Their job (which comes with a new name) comes only in the new heavens. When all the priests are in heaven (married to the bridegroom) ? who is going to organize things on earth? Aren't these "elders" who are NOT anointed (and according to you are selfishly taking the place of the priests at present) receiving training - learning to shepherd in a loving way? Arent they going to care for us during Armageddon when the sealing has been completed and these anointed have received their calling..? Or is it all about the anointed for you and not the great crowd? In my experience with the Bible - Jehovah is most practical and logic and foresees any questions that may be raised in future. Can you answer this question? Why are there going to be 144,000 to rule in heaven? Why did God not use Jesus only?
  15. Sostar: I received the name from my aunt who died young after her first child was born. She had cancer. Interesting that you found the name and realized it is a bible name... a man's name. Now here is the most interesting history: Abraham went up to mount Moriah to offer up Isaac. There was a very large flat stone on the mountain - still there today. Next to mount Moriah was another mount...... In the time of David he consolidated power and bought this place where Isaac was offered up, on instruction from Jehovah. The large stone was then in use as a threshing floor and belonged to Ornan/Araunah. Arauna was a high official - a Jebusite and may have been a proselyte as he offered the ground to David for free when he wanted to buy it. But Jehovah said he must pay for it. Jehovah had punished David for counting the able bodied men who could fight when they went to war. The pestilence interrupted and also made the census of David invalid. David filled up the saddle of the two mountains.... on one side he built his palace (Mount Zion) and Mount Moriah was set aside for Solomon to build the temple there. This is a wonderful story because it indicates that Jehovah had planned this all along and that there is total logic and continuity where Jehovah is involved! The exact same place! No conspiracy - only Jehovah! It gets more interesting! After the destruction of the 2nd temple in the year 70CE - only the wailing wall (today known as the wailing wall) remained. The temple ground was extended (filled up) by King Herod and this strong wall was built to keep this extensions in place. Thereafter, Jehovah allowed the temple to be destroyed because it was no longer the way for Jews and the new Christians to obtain salvation. The Spiritual temple with Jesus as high priest is now the only way to approach Jehovah. The genealogy of Jesus (kept there) was also destroyed in 70CE - so the Jews no longer knew if they came from tribe of Juda or not. So they cannot identify the Messiah - which they are still waiting for! (Names like Cohen and Levi still remain). The Jews then wrote down the Mishnah (for at least 250 years this was the oral traditions of the Jews - which Jesus condemned when he was on earth - because it made the laws invalid in the way it was applied) and then the Talmud...... actually human writings by Rabbis to control the people ....... and not a good set of books (9 of them)! The Romans desecrated the temple ground by using it as a temple for a Roman god ; and much later - in the time of Mohammad - the ground was occupied and they built on and it is called the Dome on the Rock (on the rock) because Mohammad claimed to have flown there in one night on a horse. .... although no-one saw him and Aisha said he never left her bed! Some believed that he went up to heaven there! So today the Muslim - Dome on the Rock- is where all the problems of the Middle East is focussed. The Jews bitterly want to rebuild the temple because they want the messiah to come back and dominate the world for them and so do the Muslims ...... because Mohammad borrowed some of his ideas from the many Jews which he associated with. One of the most quoted Muslim scriptures (the only one which refers to peace - but then later quotes the source as the Jews) actually is quoting the talmud. .... So both peoples want this ground and view it as holy.