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betoken

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  1. Downvote
    betoken reacted to Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Jesus forgave the Roman Soldiers who were torturing him to death ….. WHILE THEY WERE DOING IT.
     

  2. Downvote
    betoken reacted to Srecko Sostar in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Enlightened? You waited for Armageddon in 1914, 1925, 1940, 1975, until the end of the 20th century, until the end of the 1914 generation, until the end of the overlapping generation. You said that the vaccine is prohibited, then it is allowed, that organ transplantation is prohibited then allowed, blood transfusion is allowed, then it is prohibited, that blood fractions are allowed, then they are not, then some are and others are not.
    What are you enlightened about?
    Core teachings?
    You have clergy and hierarchy like the Catholic Church. And you seek the same privileges as the religions of "Babylon the Great", so called. And you ask for that privileges from the political powers that you say are under the power of Satan. Enlightenment? Or maybe Hypocrisy? Opportunism?
  3. Downvote
    betoken reacted to JW Insider in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Yes. All of them are correct according to the spreadsheet. 1700+ means 1700 or more. If the actual number was 2,222 then 1700-plus is correct. We KNOW that the spreadsheet represents investigations that resulted in a total of at least 1,857 alleged victims. So 1,857+ is also correct.
    I think that's completely false, according to everything I've read including what the Watchtower publications have said about CSA. I think that if there were 1,006 cases in the case file and law enforcement had not been able to charge any one of the persons within those case files, the number of alleged perpetrators would still be 1,006. In fact, if all 1,006 alleged perpetrators were investigated by law enforcement, and they were unable to find legal means to charge any one of those persons, there would still be 1,006 alleged perpetrators. There is a huge difference between being unable to charge and being able to fully exonerate someone who was falsely accused.
    But the truth is that it is very hard to charge someone with such a crime because such crimes are notoriously difficult to find prosecutable evidence for, except when the victim went to authorities immediately after the crime, and children do not typically do this. It's not found among these cases (I hope) but even cases where the girl claims rape and ends up pregnant have been dropped as unprosecutable. 
    I agree. That was exactly my point. It's why I just asked you the same question about how one might go about disfellowshipping a non-Witness. You can't DIS-fellowship someone who was not "fellowshipped" to begin with. This is why no one can make a big deal out of the fact that several persons on the list were listed as NON-Witnesses at the time of their first accusation of CSA. These persons could NOT have been NON-Witnesses at the time of their disfellowshipping. Therefore, these persons (some of them) were Witnesses at the time they were listed on this sheet as elders and ministerial servants, for example, but NOT Witnesses at the time of their first CSA accusation.
  4. Downvote
    betoken reacted to JW Insider in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    It's easy enough to check whether those numbers of 1,766+ and 1,857+ were right. Using your suggestion that "Unclear" should be equal to 1, I changed ALL the "Unclear" to 1 and tried the total again.
    I got 1,766 again. What do you think you would get?

    Next, I fixed ALL the cells with "10+" in them. I still get 1,857. What do you think I did wrong? What would you do to make it more accurate?

  5. Downvote
    betoken reacted to JW Insider in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    I'm not defending the text that ChatGPT derived, but it's still a true statement -- even without any reference to what the situation is in other countries. But you should keep in mind that the Witness organization also reaches out to prisons and to former criminals, and other persons who have issues. Jesus said that it was the "sick" that came to him, not those who considered themselves healthy. And then there is the fact that crimes, including rape and murder, come ultimately from human sinful nature.
    (James 1:14, 15) . . .But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.
    (James 2:11) . . .For the one who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” If, now, you do not commit adultery but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of law.
    Imagine! A need to write to congregations to remind them that it is not OK to murder!
     
  6. Downvote
    betoken reacted to Srecko Sostar in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    About New Zealand Commission too, perhaps?
    The Jehovah's Witness church has filed legal action to be exempted from the state-wide investigation into sexual and other abuse.
    It is seeking a judicial review and High Court declaration that the church does not assume responsibility for the care of children, young people, or vulnerable people.
    The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse said the church was arguing there were no instances of abuse within it that fall within the scope of the inquiry.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/491206/jehovah-s-witness-church-seeks-exemption-from-royal-commission-abuse-in-care-inquiry
  7. Downvote
    betoken reacted to Srecko Sostar in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Number 1006 represents a big obstacle for you to prove a wrong conclusion. 
    1006 JW members who have been counted by WT Australia in relation to CSA allegations.
    And you still claim that it is about 1006 cases of CSA.
    1006 people can be participants in a single case of a crime or in 10000 cases of crime.
    So I conclude like this. Regardless of the arguments and showing a lack of confidence in the numbers on your part or on the part of @JW Insider, the fact of reality regarding the life of believers in WTJWorg "spiritual paradise" remains clear ... Paradise is far away.
  8. Downvote
    betoken reacted to JW Insider in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Yes, I found my source documents. You are right that the sheet has exactly 1,006 entries for the number of perpetrators. Some people identify the perpetrators as the number of cases. But notice that the next column is the number of victims which I counted as 1,700+ (which other Witnesses numbered at 1732 or thereabouts.) The reason I added the plus is that most people had just totaled the numbers in the column without considering all the ones that had "text" in the cell.
    In the screenshot I skipped 1000 lines so you can also see the headings. The sheet matches all the numbers that other JWs and Holly Folk were using, for all the columns, not just the first few I am showing in the screenshot. I won't promote the sheet by posting the whole thing, but I'm pretty sure you can find someone who downloaded it at the time it was available. (I might be mistaken, but I don't think it is currently available on the ARC site.) 

    When you look at the original sheet and total the number of alleged victims column, you get 1732 see below.

    But many of the cells display Unclear. And we should assume that any accusation involves at least one accuser. So if we replace the Unclear's with a 1 then you get a total of 1766 victims.

    But several of the perpetrators (even ministerial servants) had 10 or more victims, and those were marked with the term "10+". The plus sign keeps it from being put in the total because the sheet formula treats it as text, not a number. So if you change all the 10+ to just the number 10 (the minimum), you get a minimum of 1,857 victims:

    Again I don't know the accuracy of the report that the Australian Watchtower Branch gave to the court, but it represents at least 1,857 victims. This is why I called it 1,700-plus. But if it comes up again, I supposed I should be more accurate and admit that it shows at least 1,857.
  9. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
  10. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Fausto Hoover in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
  11. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Your argument is simply based on a minor detail and lacks relevance to the larger picture.
  12. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Why are you so angry. Is this considered spamming?

    Could you please explain the reason for your antagonistic behavior?

    Sharing inaccurate information is also considered misleading. Should that be witnessed here?
  13. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    Some of us come to see what the agenda driven propaganda is here. 
  14. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    How does one get exposed by the emojis? Isn't that the reason for them? Is it truly believed by the individuals here that other witnesses are not seeking genuine truth, but rather advocating for apostasy and biased truth?
  15. Haha
    betoken got a reaction from Pudgy in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    What an impressive counterargument. Is this the best? If Anna and Comfortmypeople emerge to give you an upvote, what would your response be?
  16. Downvote
    betoken reacted to Srecko Sostar in Can JW Television (digital news) be trusted?   
    This shows, in all those decades before ARC process, that WTJWorg elders and ministerial servants do not report CSA cases to the police, but some victims or their relatives do.
    Besides, you did an identity swap. BCH is not the victim but the abuser, bully, according to statement made by J.I. Bennett.
    Also report (Case study 29) speaking about BCB, BCG as victims.
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