Srecko Sostar

It is not clear to me how you can call the transition from one distorted dogma to another distorted dogma "guidance and redirection from HS". lol

It is significant to note from the title itself, that JWs call for "evidence". I guess the most significant "evidence" for JWs, and their belief system and dogma, as they themselves point out, is the lifestyle of 1st century Christians and the biblical text. These two should be something that JWs will imitate and interpret in the modern circumstances of life. Consequently, JWs will claim that their current way of life and application of the Bible is exactly the way the First Christians lived, while on other hand they consciously or unconsciously ignore the "fact" that they themselves have set their standards with their "performances, interpretations and dogmas" of religious practice which then project onto the past and claim that this is exactly how the "First Christians" lived. So we have a reversal of roles and a thesis claiming that the way JWs worship in the 21st century is the same as the 1st century. This is how the reverse idea spreads, in which today's set of dogmas is presented as an original from the 1st century. That simply can not be true. Furthermore, GB has a powerful system of interpretations that change from year to year. This very "fact" is "evidence" that the previous idea, their basic idea to which they appeal to prove their originality and accuracy as primitive Christians, becomes their own defeat. The reported example of "greeting and fellowshipping" between current and former JWs provides "proof" of how the so-called "original" from the 1st century is being interpreted and modified into "True Christianity" of the 21st century. Without going into details about the foundation and correctness of any of the previous, present or future practices of communication between these two opposing groups of people, i.e. faithful and unfaithful followers over a long period of time (with Christians in the 1st century as well as today's Christians in WTJorg) I emphasize all this as a clear indication that the question in the title is wrongly addressed and "condemns" former JWS in advance as people who do not see the alleged "evidence". How can "evidence" for something, anything, be a WTJWorg interpretation that has been conducted and explained in one way for decades, and now takes on other properties and forms? Every dogmatic change of dogma is evidence that GB and JWs do not recognize "evidence" and what they are doing and what they believe.

Maybe that's true, maybe not. Do we have any evidence for this scenario?

And what if this forum is meant to gather information about how ex-JWs think, so that the folks at WTJWorg can prepare countermeasures? lol

It's commendable that you can talk to everyone.

If I am interpreting correctly, you will engage in agreement with every Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Hindu who has not renounced their faith, beliefs, but you will not engage in agreement on anything with a former JW. .... lol Dualism is necessary, because without it we would not be able to see the opposite. If there are no lies, there is no truth. Without darkness there is no light. Etc. Everything would be a long straight line that proves nothing.

Hiding and holding the truth out is often the hallmark of GB members and their lawyers. So I agree with you on how important this issue is. Ok. Give some interpretations, please.

We are now on page 4 of this thread. What is the goal of the question? Did Satan become "imperfect" after the first sin? Or irreparable? Does he belong to the "prodigal son" category or not? Adam and Eve became "imperfect" because of sin. Did Satan become "imperfect"? If YHVH "punished" the people, what prevented him from punishing this wicked transgressor in the same way? And don't answer me from JWs literature. Because that is not a strong enough argument.

You asked a good question. As far as I know from the Bible, no angel ever sounded the alarm. Were angels not present during the conversation between Satan and Eve? If they didn't, then nobody knew what was going on. If one of them listened to it and did not react, then one must ask why? Yes, since Satan initiated the process of deception, it stands to reason that all his words thereafter become suspect. However, this does not prove that he was not telling the truth before that unfortunate event. It also doesn't prove that he can't decide to start telling the truth. Because you yourself say that it's all a matter of choice.

It can also be like this: "When did Satan start lying?" "Did the angel known by the name Satan ever speak the truth?"

"Does Satan always tell, speak the truth?"

Every intelligent creature created by God with free will is capable of telling truths and lies. What is unclear about that? Or what in that conclusion is contrary to the words of Jesus? Perhaps, if you want a different answer, you should ask a more adequate, more accurate question.

Can Satan speak the truth? By George88 6 hours ago in Topics https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/can can 1 of 5 verb (1) kən, ˈkan also ˈken; dialectal ˈkin past could kəd, ˈku̇d ; present singular & plural can Synonyms of can auxiliary verb 1 a: be physically or mentally able to He can lift 200 pounds. b: know how to She can read. c—used to indicate possibility Do you think he can still be alive? Those things can happen. —sometimes used interchangeably with may d: be inherently able or designed to everything that money can buy e: be enabled by law, agreement, or custom to Congress can declare war. f: be permitted by conscience or feeling to can hardly blame her g: be made possible or probable by circumstances to He can hardly have meant that. h: be logically or axiologically able to 2 + 2 can also be written 3 + 1. 2 : have permission to —used interchangeably with may You can go now if you like. transitive verb 1 archaic : to be able to do, make, or accomplish 2 obsolete : KNOW, UNDERSTAND Answer: YES

To "clarify" this topic for the readers. This "spiritual heritage of management" culminated in the formation of today's GB. How does GB work? It governs dogmas, instructions, supervises, governs how JWs should live. How do they come to decisions? By voting of all GB members. If 2/3 of the members outvote 1/3 of the members, then the decision is considered valid. What does this say about the activities of the HS (Jesus and God) under whose "leadership" all members of the GB are allegedly act? This tells us about several possible implications. 1. not all GB members are influenced by the "same HS" when making decisions 2. HS does not "lead" all GB members equally and simultaneously, in harmony, in unity, 3. the decisions made by the GB are not united by "one spirit", that means the HS is disunited or the GB is disunited, 4. none of the JWs have a guarantee that the decisions made by the GB are the "will of God", that is, that they are for the benefit of the believers. God's will consists in the fact that the "sheep" do not go astray, but if the decision was made only because of 2/3 who overrode, overrule 1/3, then it is not God's will but human, 5. the annulled decisions of the previous GB prove that they were "human decisions" without "guidance by HS", 6. the previous statement (No.5) proves that even the current decisions of GB do not have to be "from HS"

The authority to judge lies with God, not the GB. While God has the ability to see into the hearts and minds of people, the Governing Body lacks this capability. Repentance can be found in the genuine willingness of an individual to demonstrate it through their actions and behavior. Nevertheless, there is no assurance, as the human heart is capable of deceit. If you think like that, then it is also clear to you that GB has no justification for making decisions about who can and who cannot be greeted. This depends on who is making the observation. If this mindset originates from an apostate perspective, it is futile. Apostasy is the conscious denial of something valuable, a value that profoundly reflects on God. Believing that one's former religion holds no value to God renders apostasy meaningless. The crucial point here is true worship, not false religion. You contradict yourself again and again, because you stated that only God sees the true situation. This means that you have admitted that GB, and also that you personally, do not know who is an "apostate" and who is not. Because, you say, the point is who makes the observation. Since the observation is made by "imperfect" people, their assessment of who is a "renegade, apostate" is based on shaky, unreliable, inaccurate and biased conclusions. GB regularly confirms, with their nonsensical instructions, that they have placed themselves at that level of power.