How to Understand Why Former Members of Jehovah's Witnesses Don't Recognize the Evidence.

[George88]

Why don't former members of Jehovah's Witnesses recognize the impact that other religions have on societies as a whole here?

This site appears more interested in maintaining the status quo within their misconceived hierarchy, rather than actually making a meaningful contribution to the discussion about finding temporary solutions to the pressing issue troubling even those outside the community: the evil afflicting humanity at the hands of Satan by not separating church and state in their arguments.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nuns-defy-vatican-and-seek-a-restraining-order-against-bishop/ss-AA1nzW9o?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3c9a19f4fa9b43d3a7bd8ceaa485848b&ei=20#image=4

This week, Texas nuns are defying a Vatican order to vacate their Monastery after the Vatican issued a decree concerning their order. The nuns are now seeking government intervention by requesting a restraining order. However, a District Judge dismissed a previous order on the grounds it lacked jurisdiction.
In a striking turn of events, a French court went against the Vatican's sovereignty and issued a groundbreaking judgment in support of an excommunicated nun, thereby challenging the authority of a sovereign nation. 

It seems that the French Court overlooked a crucial fact when it ruled that the Vatican could not excommunicate a nun for violating the bylaws that govern any religious order.

The notion of "chastity" and its significance in the Catholic faith extends far beyond any criminal accusation. The French nun's struggle with "obedience" and failure to communicate is also noteworthy in her role as a high-profile teacher. It mirrors the biblical teachings on sexual morality, and obedience to authority serves as a guiding principle for believers.
There are, however, numerous theories surrounding these two issues, and I'm confident that people will contribute their own unique perspectives to them.

The French government's actions concerning the Vatican City's "Holy See", which is equivalent to the Watchtower Governing Body for the Catholic Faith, are a sovereign nation recognized by all nations of the world. Not only is it concerning, but also reminiscent of the restrictions being imposed on other organizations, such as the Watchtower, by other governments. Such interference in the affairs of a sovereign nation sets a troubling precedent.

What the French government is essentially saying is that they have the right to intervene and dictate to another nation. This verdict is essentially what it implies.

https://apnews.com/article/vatican-france-nun-pope-marie-ferreol-ouellet-937da5e4b91b3b591b72b9edeb4a1f76

In this case, apostates of Jehovah's Witnesses and some witnesses not in good standing serve as referees and consider disfellowshipping to be a barbaric action, even though it is supported by scripture and implemented in the bylaws of other religious institutions according to bible canon.

Even though scripture doesn't specifically mention the words "excommunicate" or "disfellowship," it implies consequences for those who have a heavy heart after committing serious transgressions against God, and have no desire to repent.

In another thread, the topic of repentance and being unrepentant was brought up. Is it possible to guide an unrepentant soul towards receiving God's grace, or does the individual need to show a genuine desire to repent on their own?

God demands that we demonstrate true repentance through our behavior. This new understanding, as highlighted by the Watchtower GB, shows that there is a pathway to fellowship for those who have strayed from God's teachings. Upon demonstrating genuine repentance, they can be accepted back into God's hands.

Is it the spiritual leader's responsibility to coerce or convince a sinner to repent? No, that decision belongs between God and the individual. The church's obligation is to keep the congregation free from negative influences. In the time before the New Testament, God communicated his wishes through the prophets.

This was God's will.

2 Chronicles 7:14 New International Version
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

A person who truly repents should be shown leniency, as stated in scriptures such as Matthew, Luke, Acts, 1 Peter, and 1 John, etc. However, this leniency does not apply to those who choose to remain unrepentant. The words of the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 still apply to those whose conduct willfully denies the Lord through their personal actions and behavior.

Now, how do other institutions view those steps?

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/8-signs-true-repentance/

So, to whom should a devoted follower of Christ listen? They should prioritize attentiveness to scripture and adhere to the word of God. Moreover, they should comprehend those teachings that align with the principles of Christ, as conveyed by their spiritual leaders.

One confusion has arisen due to Tom's interpretation of the Governing Body's update number #2. He mistakenly assumes that Jehovah's Witnesses are allowed to associate with disfellowshipped individuals and therefore are in harmony with the spirit of update # 2. However, reading his comments elsewhere, it is clear that Tom is spreading misinformation. It is important to clarify that we are not "free" to associate with disfellowshipped individuals, as some may wrongly infer from Tom's words. The truth is quite the opposite.

The Brothers update suggests the following:

18. When a person has been removed from the congregation, we “stop keeping company”with that person, “not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11) However, as explained and demonstrated in the 2024 Governing Body Update #2, if the person attends congregation meetings, a publisher can use his Bible-trained conscience to decide if he will give a simple greeting and welcome the disfellowshipped person to the meeting or not.

19. A Christian may also choose to invite a disfellowshipped person—perhaps a relative, a former Bible student, or someone he was close to in the past—to attend a congregation meeting.

This update does not in any way imply a casual association with a disfellowshipped individual, as some people may interpret through their own subjective understanding of the publications from the Watchtower. The contact with a disfellowshipped individual remains with the Elders of the congregation whether they progress in repentance or not.

One of the signs of the end times is the increasing tendency of governments to perceive religion as merely another institution governed by rules, rather than as a sacred system of spiritual principles. This shift may enable more meaningful discussions about global political perspectives based on religious scriptures rather than individual opinions.
Therefore, when faced with attempts to trick him, how did Jesus handle secular political issues in Matthew 22:17-21?

These issues regarding the nuns should be addressed in the same way that Jesus did, by separating church and state, which those nuns failed to do.

[Srecko Sostar]

It is significant to note from the title itself, that JWs call for "evidence". I guess the most significant "evidence" for JWs, and their belief system and dogma, as they themselves point out, is the lifestyle of 1st century Christians and the biblical text. These two should be something that JWs will imitate and interpret in the modern circumstances of life.

Consequently, JWs will claim that their current way of life and application of the Bible is exactly the way the First Christians lived, while on other hand they consciously or unconsciously ignore the "fact" that they themselves have set their standards with their "performances, interpretations and dogmas" of religious practice which then project onto the past and claim that this is exactly how the "First Christians" lived.

So we have a reversal of roles and a thesis claiming that the way JWs worship in the 21st century is the same as the 1st century. This is how the reverse idea spreads, in which today's set of dogmas is presented as an original from the 1st century. That simply can not be true.

Furthermore, GB has a powerful system of interpretations that change from year to year. This very "fact" is "evidence" that the previous idea, their basic idea to which they appeal to prove their originality and accuracy as primitive Christians, becomes their own defeat.

The reported example of "greeting and fellowshipping" between current and former JWs provides "proof" of how the so-called "original" from the 1st century is being interpreted and modified into "True Christianity" of the 21st century.

Without going into details about the foundation and correctness of any of the previous, present or future practices of communication between these two opposing groups of people, i.e. faithful and unfaithful followers over a long period of time (with Christians in the 1st century as well as today's Christians in WTJorg) I emphasize all this as a clear indication that the question in the title is wrongly addressed and "condemns" former JWS in advance as people who do not see the alleged "evidence".

How can "evidence" for something, anything, be a WTJWorg interpretation that has been conducted and explained in one way for decades, and now takes on other properties and forms? 

Every dogmatic change of dogma is evidence that GB and JWs do not recognize "evidence" and what they are doing and what they believe.

[xero]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. Is there a recommendation to do something? Believe something? 
 

This phrase "Why don't former members of Jehovah's Witnesses recognize the impact that other religions have on societies as a whole here?" is weirdly ambiguous.

On the one hand it claims that "former members" have a certain belief in common, namely some ambiguous "[a failure to]  "recognize the impact that other religions have on societies as a whole here"".

I don't know how anyone could know anything consistently true about ex-JW's other than that they are ex-JW's. Their reason for being ex-JW's varies, and how any of the business of being an "ex-JW" could be queried such that one could speak of them as a bloc in holding any given attitude about anything is beyond me.

Then it seems there's some squishy words which we're supposed to imagine flows naturally to "What are you doing about evil in the world?" Implying that some unclearly named others aren't, w/o making an explicit argument. 

Then we're having our attention directed to a case of some nuns who have issues with their hierarchy, and somehow this is supposed to exemplify something, but what that is isn't clear either.

Then SS uses this as an opportunity to express himself, however how any of his expressions can in any way connect with the OP's ambiguous post is beyond me.

Maybe if I passed this through some gematria calculator, it will make more sense.

https://www.gematrix.org/?word=Why+don't+former+members+of+Jehovah's+Witnesses+recognize+the+impact+that+other+religions+have+on+societies+as+a+whole+here%3F
Turns out that phrase has the value of 8957, which is also tellingly the same numeric value as the phrase:
https://www.gematrix.org/?word=stalked by fallen ones then why they hiding in bunkers they must know something you useless eaters on the surface dont know hahahaha

 

[George88]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is significant to note from the title itself, that JWs call for "evidence". I guess the most significant "evidence" for JWs, and their belief system and dogma, as they themselves point out, is the lifestyle of 1st century Christians and the biblical text. These two should be something that JWs will imitate and interpret in the modern circumstances of life.

Yes, you will indeed find the pattern of a Christian life followed by most witnesses, just not in this place.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Consequently, JWs will claim that their current way of life and application of the Bible is exactly the way the First Christians lived, while on other hand they consciously or unconsciously ignore the "fact" that they themselves have set their standards with their "performances, interpretations and dogmas" of religious practice which then project onto the past and claim that this is exactly how the "First Christians" lived.

Their actions alone should be enough to convey their message, without the need for any further claims. I understand that you may have some issues with God and Christ, but rest assured that they will deal with them in due time.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So we have a reversal of roles and a thesis claiming that the way JWs worship in the 21st century is the same as the 1st century. This is how the reverse idea spreads, in which today's set of dogmas is presented as an original from the 1st century. That simply can not be true.

Well, this is just a convoluted way of thinking, since we are living in the 21st century applying Christ's first century teachings. Therefore, what is not true is your way of thinking.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Furthermore, GB has a powerful system of interpretations that change from year to year. This very "fact" is "evidence" that the previous idea, their basic idea to which they appeal to prove their originality and accuracy as primitive Christians, becomes their own defeat.

Absolutely! God's Holy Spirit is indeed in charge. Have you ever considered the countless instances in the Bible where God guided and redirected the Israelites and His people? It's truly remarkable how His divine intervention played out!

What part of that don't you understand?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The reported example of "greeting and fellowshipping" between current and former JWs provides "proof" of how the so-called "original" from the 1st century is being interpreted and modified into "True Christianity" of the 21st century.

For those who genuinely repent, this is a practical approach. Seeing that Jesus was dining with a Pharisee to make a point, it would be reasonable to expect that someone with a well-informed conscience would be allowed to greet a disfellowshipped individual who shows a sincere desire to return to God. However, Tom's perspective seems to overlook the importance of fellowship in this scenario.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Without going into details about the foundation and correctness of any of the previous, present or future practices of communication between these two opposing groups of people, i.e. faithful and unfaithful followers over a long period of time (with Christians in the 1st century as well as today's Christians in WTJorg) I emphasize all this as a clear indication that the question in the title is wrongly addressed and "condemns" former JWS in advance as people who do not see the alleged "evidence".

That's precisely why the title is structured that way - as you've just demonstrated. Former witnesses often lack evidence, and are clueless when evidence is presented. It seems they simply enjoy boasting about nonsense, as you just have.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How can "evidence" for something, anything, be a WTJWorg interpretation that has been conducted and explained in one way for decades, and now takes on other properties and forms? 

Every dogmatic change of dogma is evidence that GB and JWs do not recognize "evidence" and what they are doing and what they believe.

It appears that they possess a superior understanding of evidence and the divine purpose guiding this world, surpassing your comprehension.

[George88]

Unlike other apostate posts, this one you voice a complaint which lacks a coherent commentary to support your argument, Tom, or Xero?

[xero]

3 minutes ago, George88 said:

Unlike other apostate posts, this one you voice a complaint which lacks a coherent commentary to support your argument, Tom, or Xero?

I don't know whether you just had a seizure, but you're not making sense. You're one step away from talking in word salads.

[George88]

4 hours ago, xero said:

Maybe if I passed this through some gematria calculator, it will make more sense.

If you are unable to comprehend the thread, it reflects more on your abilities than on the thread itself. One crucial point to recognize is that Tom's understanding of the GB update #2 was inaccurate. Perhaps even your sad calculator could analyze that and make sense of it.

[George88]

Just now, xero said:

I don't know whether you just had a seizure, but you're not making sense. You're one step away from talking in word salads.

It appears that the ignorance being displayed here is coming from you, Tom/Xero. Now you seem to want to act in a disrespectful manner, just like James. Your behavior is truly pathetic.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, George88 said:

Absolutely! God's Holy Spirit is indeed in charge. Have you ever considered the countless instances in the Bible where God guided and redirected the Israelites and His people? It's truly remarkable how His divine intervention played out!

What part of that don't you understand?

It is not clear to me how you can call the transition from one distorted dogma to another distorted dogma "guidance and redirection from HS". lol

[George88]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is not clear to me how you can call the transition from one distorted dogma to another distorted dogma "guidance and redirection from HS".

Your knowledge of God was erased from your conscience as a result of your betrayal. 

[TrueTomHarley]

11 hours ago, xero said:

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

It’s because he is in a snit that we let Pudg in the closed club whereas he wouldn’t be able to get in for all the tea in China.

It is truly sad and indeed troubling, reflecting poor scholarship and intellectual deterioration, typical of those who frequent the closed club, that you did not possess this knowledge as your own possession and were thus reduced to enquiring as regards to this knowledge that you so sadly lack in the midst of the spiritual delinquency of the open club. 

[George88]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s because he is in a snit that we let Pudg in the closed club whereas he wouldn’t be able to get in for all the tea in China.

I would never even consider joining an apostate club worse than this one. At least here, apostates are honest about who they are, while you fake witnesses hide behind your foolishness. I will agree, after so long, you people still lack intelligence in most areas.  

In your anger you forgot the "y" in Pudgy, lol! Get a life Tom!

Your feeble attempt to accuse me of lacking Christian ethics pales in comparison to your own moral failings of permitting a disfellowshipped individual into the close club solely because you have a liking for him. It is clear that your judgment is far more lacking than mine, ex-elder. It's evident that the reasons behind your removal are significant. Therefore, your words, along with those of your followers, ring hollow in light of your own deplorable conduct, which is far worse than mine.