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scholar JW

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scholar JW last won the day on January 19 2018

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About scholar JW

  • Birthday 05/19/1947

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  1. JW Insider Utter nonsense! The only significance of Neb's 18/19th year pertains only to the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE which event is only described in the Bible as the basis for prophecy and not in NB History or Chronology. scholar JW
  2. JW Insider If you are going to talk about Neb's 18th or 19th year then you have to assign not just a calendrical year for each but also an event otherwise the matter is meaningless for the purpose of Chronology. Thus. this matter must be resolved whether you choose to ignore it or otherwise. You should be upfront and provide such astronomical evidence as far as I am concerned based on COJ's extensive discussion of the astronomical diaries for the NB Period there is none. You have to answer not only this question but also the other about a precise calendar date for the Fall of Jerusalem. scholar JW
  3. JW Insider The major problem that you have is that scholarship based on NB Chronology cannot resolve the 586/7 BCE date for the Fall of Jerusalem whether it was in either Neb's 18th or 19th year. Until you have resolved this problem then any talk about the 'strength of secular evidence' is foolishness and futile. Such an unresolved dilemma proves the wisdom of WT scholars choosing a different methodology in the selection of the Fall of Babylon as a Pivotal Date for the purpose of constructing a practical scheme of Bible Chronology. scholar JW
  4. JW Insider My summary of the biblical 70 years is as follows: The 70 years was first prophesied by Jeremiah in 'the fourth year of King Jehoiakim (625 BCE) - Jer. 25: 11,12; 29:10 witnessed and experienced by the prophet Daniel whilst exiled in Babylon in the first year of Darius the Mede(539-538 BCEca) -Dan.9: 2. Later, in the second year of King Darius 1 (520 BCE) the prophet Zechariah received a vision, a message of comfort concerning the already expired 70 years -Zech 1: 12; and in Darius' fourth year (518 BCE), Jehovah's word through the prophet recalled the 70 years as a period of laments -Zech. 7: 5. Finally, the historian Ezra (460 BCE) described the 70 years in 2Chron 36: 21. These seven '70 years' references show three distinctive elements characteristic of this definite historical period in Jewish history namely: a period of Exile. a period of servitude to Babylon, a period of desolation of Jerusalem, its Temple and the Land of Judah. Accurate Bible History and Bible Chronology prove that the 70 years began with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE by King Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon in his 18/19th year (607 BCE) and during the 11th year of King Zedekiah of Judah and ended with the release of the Jewish exiles in Babylon under the King Cyrus of Persia during his 1st Year (538-537 BCE) using an official Decree returning to their homeland in 537 BCE. The subject of the 70 years has been and continues to be a most contentious within current scholarship with many interpretations offered as to the nature of the 70 years and its chronology. The most popular theory is that it represents only a period of Babylonian domination from either 605 BCE or 609 BCE until 539 BCE with the Fall of Babylon, others refer to the period as that of the state of the Jewish Temple from 586 BCE the traditional date for the destruction of Jerusalem to the Temple's restoration in 516 BCE. All such popular theories fail because the interpretation of the 70 years does not consider the major elements as described by the Bible writers both in terms of its prophecy and history except the Jewish historian Josephus who discusses the 70 years in his Antiquities to the Jews in similar terms matching the above description as a period of Exile. The 70 years has proven to be a 'stumbling block' for scholars and critics of Jehovah's Witnesses because they ignore the fact of the Jewish Exile a period that historians such as Rainer Albertz have regarded the Exile aa a 'catastrophe'. Such language is very much descriptive of the Exile for and in Babylon uttered by the prophet Jeremiah. scholar JW
  5. JW Insider Jeremiah did just that. He explained the 70 years in full that would be a period of Judah being made to serve Babylon, that the Jews left an empty, desolated land for 70 years. - Jer. 25:8-11; 29:10. False. Jeremiah's 70-year prophecy was a judgement against Judah, not Babylon. Jer. 25:2 Correct! Jehovah's judgement against the nations is explained from vss. 12- 26. The expression 'these nations will have to serve Babylon for 70 years' can be rendered in different ways as shown by comparing other Bible translations. The problem is to whom or where are the 70 years applicable as set out in the Hebrew text so it is a matter of interpretation. We cannot know who these nations are as it is unspecified in this verse. Further, Rolf Furuli who is the first scholar to carry out a linguistic analysis of this verse suggests three possibilities as to the translation of this verse: 2. And they will serve these nations, the king of Babylon, seventy years 1. And these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years 3. And they will serve these nations together with the king of Babylon seventy years The subject here is 'these nations' and are described as 'these surrounding nations' in vs. 9 or as 'nations round about'. Thus, I conclude that 'these nations' are simply those peoples living outside the border of Judah who also would be caught in the impending maelstrom. A linguistic analysis of this vs. 11 and vs.9 shows that 'these nations as 'surrounding nations' are simply peoples living in close proximity to the Land of Judah. These '70 years of Tyre' relate to their subjection to Babylon and were made by the prophet Isaiah and not Jeremiah so we should not conflate the two time periods. One remains unverified historically as in the case of Tyre where no specific dates are given whereas for Judah we have historical evidence for its start and end dates. Your argument fails because we have two specific time periods or events by two different prophets only fulfilled during the Babylonian period under Nebuchadnezzer represented as a period of servitude to that king. Jeremiah's 70 years applies to Judah alone whereas Isaiah's 70 years applies to Tyre alone. You are trying to create history, best to just stick to what we know and what the Bible specifically states. Jeremiah's 70 years are for Judah alone and are historically specified but this is not the case with Isaiah's 70 years for all that these have in common is the same number and being dominated by Babylon for a period of time. The Jewish Exile was for a fixed period of 70 years and not 70 years or more. Those Jews who were earlier deported were of Jehoiachin's exile or 'the exile of King Jehoiachin' - Ezek.1: 2; 33:21; 40:1. Thus this deportation although termed as an 'exile' would be secondary to the EXILE in its fullest extent in accordance with the many prophetic warnings and judgements. scholar JW
  6. Screcko Sostar Please do and recognize that such a discussion is only made possible by those 'celebrated' WT scholars! scholar JW
  7. JW Insider No problem as the Exile as to its nature and chronology are clearly defined as a fixed period of 70 years and consisted of two other elements namely a period of servitude to Babylon and a period of desolation of the Land of Judah which are characteristic of a 'exile' which of course would include a deportation of the remaining inhabitants. Such three elements are the Exile and only went into effect at the time of the Fall of Jerusalem. Ezekiel along Daniel and others had already been deported some ten years earlier into Exile in Babylon thus it became their or 'our exile. scholar JW
  8. JW Insider The only relevance applicable to these two proposed dates 586 BCE and 587 BCE for that event in Bible history- the Fall of Jerusalem is that it highlights the contention within scholarship as to which is the precise date for the Fall. scholar JW
  9. JW Insider Only a few dates of Neb's reign are tied to the regnal years of the Judean Monarchy but such cannot be used as a pivotal date as such dates are contentious. It is far better to use the strongest and most celebrated candidate- 539 BCE for the Fall of Babylon. scholar JW
  10. JW Insider The beginning of Babylon's domination is problematic even in the case of Judah thus it is best to heed Jeremiah's prophecy that the 70 years of Babylon's domination/servitude be commensurate with the Fall of Jerusalem in Neb's 18th/19th year and the deportation of the populace to Babylon as exiles leaving a desolated Land of Judah. scholar JW
  11. JW Insider It is not an act of faith at all but simply using a sound and solid date that can serve as an anchor point for OT Chronology thus one can then reckon backwards and forwards to construct a valid scheme of Bible Chronology. The date 537 BCE is well attested than the problematic 19th or 18th year of Neb. Well done in choosing 607 BCE as an Exilic beginning but you need to see that this year also was the date for the Fall which can only properly begin the Exile which was commensurate of not only Babylon's domination but also leaving a desolated Land of Judah for 70 years. This period did not end in 539 BCE but in 537 BCE with the Return of the Jews. There were no exiles but only ONE Exile with other deportations in biblical history of the Late Judean Monarchy. WT publications well describe the 70 years in its nature and chronology which began in Neb's 18th/19th year and Zedkiah's 11 th year for no other interpretation works. One Exile of 70 years beginning in 607 BCE and ending in 537 BCE. Both the Bible and WT interpretation are in sync. scholar JW
  12. JW Insider I am talking about the dates 586 or 587 BCE for the Fall of Jerusalem which the Bible states happened in the 18/19th year of Neb. That is what is contentious! These two regnal years of Neb are irrelevant unless are tied to an event in biblical history such as the Fall of Babylon and the Fall of Jerusalem. scholar JW
  13. JW Insider Indeed I have all of the WT explanations right up to the present and I disagree with you. For example, the explanation in Insight, Vol.1, pp. 568-569 is simple and immediate or specific dealing with all of the attendant circumstances. Try finding in any other reference work a discussion of the year of the Jewish Return for there is no adequate treatment. Most definitely not. For the date, 586 BCE for the Fall remains the view of leading chronologists, historians and archaeologists right up to the present and Lipschit's published research into this era is a good example of this fact. There is no way one can compare 586 or 587 BCE with the established date 539 BCE for the fall of Babylon wisely chosen by WT scholars in 1949 some 75 years ago. What genius! What a masterstroke in biblical scholarship! A fact in which I repeatedly informed the late Alan F on this and other forums. May he rest in peace. Noted No it wasn't me. Whatever the case as with all good scholarship improvements or adjustments are made and that too is part of the history of our wondrous WT Bible Chronology. So what. Better than plucking figures out of thin air and ignoring obvious historical and biblical facts about the Jewish Exile and Jeremiah's 70 years as presented in current scholarship. The data is similar being of a secular nature, the two events namely the Fall of Babylon under Cyrus and the Fall of Jerusalem under Nebuchadnezzer are of similar biblical-historical and theological significance but it is the latter date that is contentious- 586 BCE? 587BCE? resolved by the establishment of 607 BCE which is incontravertible. Well if NB Chronology with its regnal years of Nebuchadnezzar is without issues, with no assumptions then how come it omits any reference to Neb's missing 7 years of dethronement and how is it that the 70 years is not mentioned in the NB historical record thus proving a Babylonian Gap of 20 years? I say bunkum! scholar JW
  14. JW Insider Correct. Oded Lipschits gives the beginning of the siege in Neb's 18th year- 587 BCE and its ending in 586 BCE in his 19th year with the Fall of Jerusalem in 586 BCE and not 587 BCE. Noted Again noted! I would think that his understanding of this subject is based on current scholarship as noted in his extensive footnotes throughout his seminal work The Fall and Rise of JerusalemI, 2005, Eisenbrauns of which i have a copy. Because scholars believe and trust the current chronology but what they all have in common is to properly interpret and understand the importance of the Jewish Exile and the biblical 'seventy years of Jeremiah'. scholar JW
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