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19 hours ago, Anna said:
Judging the mother and telling her what she should or shouldn't do with her son is wrong obviously. But it is the other parents right if they decide they do not want their children to associate with the son for fear of bad association. It all depends on the situation. I have experienced quite a few cases like this, where the unbaptized teen decides they no longer want to attend, but it went hand in hand with also not wanting to associate with members of the congregation outside of the meetings either, but rather choosing worldly friends with whom they could go and do their "worldly things" as is the case when one wants to quit the truth. However, many decide to quit their worldly ways and come back and that is when they will find much support (or should). One of the unbaptized sons of a single sister in our congregation stopped going to meetings and went to live with his girlfriend. He and his girlfriend came to the memorial this year and everyone was very nice to both of them. The son looked completely at ease, talking with his former friends and they talking with him. The sisters even took his girlfriend under their wing and invited her to go to cross fit with them. I don't know where this will end, but the son knows that if he wants to come back any time, he will be most welcomed. And for just one of his steps in the right direction, the friends will take two to meet him more than half way.
If someone has been abused, and chooses to stay away from meetings the friends will try and encourage that one and show them mercy, but you will find as a rule it is the abused person who doesn't want that either. They are the ones who want to quit associating with Witnesses period, regardless of whether they are at the Kingdom hall or not.
What’s better, to humbly accept counsel even if it may be unjustifiably harsh or unfair, or to try and make excuses or minimize the situation? You know the answer.
I agree, the ARC were handling things from a secular point of view, and therefore found it difficult at times to understand our Bible based view. But again, the only objective here is to protect the children and find a balance between what the secular view is and Bible principles. I think the GB wear big boy’s pants and we need not worry about them and feel we need to run to their defense. I do not think they have been too upset by the investigation and about being corrected, and do not need our sympathies or protection. Nothing bad has happened. A few insufficiencies were found which needed correcting. There are insufficiencies in all strata of society and regularly need to be assessed and revised. Also in our organization, and it has been the case as you know. Of course this is Satan’s world and so humans will never achieve a perfect solution, and neither will we as an organization because we too are imperfect.
Being unfairly imprisoned, and being sexually abused and raped as a child is quite different, at least in my opinion.
I respectfully disagree. We are not cold, dispassionate, robots, programmed to do as ordered. We are biological, thinking, feeling and reasoning, beings. To speak as though it is only ever the problem of the person who stays away is a misstep of logic. We know the brothers are not completely equiped with the tools they need to handle these matters appropriately, hence they are in court. We also know the brothers are imperfect and can make mistakes even terrible ones. If an unbaptised teenager is feeling "pressured" to come to meetings, that is actually a form of emotional abuse and can have long lasting mental and emotional effects on the person.
It was only a short time, and that person actually came to a meeting - what would you do? - no one [that had shuunned him] came up to and welcomed him. They visibly turned their backs to him at the meeting. He was not disassociated, he was not disfellowshipped, but he might as well have been. Further, [He had a] brother who was loyal and kept coming to meetings was also avoided because of his brother's decision. Others stopped inviting him gatherings - do you really think that was what Jesus meant by... "by this all will know you are my disciples?"
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On 2017-4-28 at 00:48, Anna said:
those who are not baptised cannot get disfellowshipped or disassociate regardless of age.
[Remainder of post omitted as was not relevant to this post]
I would like to point out that we had a young unbaptised teen, who no longer wanted to attend meetings. This was considered the same as disassociation, and he was to be treated as the same as a disfellowshipped person. However, this hurtful behaviour, was not an official statement from the platform, it was more a private "marking" from several families whose parents told the solo mum she was wrong for allowing him to no longer attend the meetings, that she should be "making" him come to meetings if he lives with her. Her response was that if she was in the best position to know her son best, that if she tried to "force" her son to attend meetings the effect would be much worse. Having seen parents do this time and time again, only for the young person to become absolutely opposed to the organisation has been enough evidence to affirm that allowing someone to choose to leave [to exercise their free will] along with the statement that you still care about them and that your door will always be open, is the better and most loving course...
But on topic, if one has also been abused, and chooses to stay away from the meetings on this basis, and if the only thing the congregation focuses on are the "rules" then they have missed the point of "I want mercy, not sacrifice".
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Re: Ripples
Sure, it's just a matter of time, however, if too many big changes are made without first clarifying all it's connecting concepts, it could get quite messy. It's already quite confusing for some, since the "Faithful Slave" adjustment. We still get brothers giving talks with old material as references
some evidently not aware something has changed since that outline came out...
I'm working - by working I mean taking forever - on a database that will contain all major concepts and their connecting concepts, showing previous and current connections. Just purely for my personal interest hehe hence it's taking forever lol
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At Heb 13: 17 The phrase "be obedient to those taking the lead" can also be rendered "Be obedient to those who are governors of you" or "your governors". There used to be a cross reference to Matthew 2: 6. "Governing one". The phrase "taking the lead" is probably to avoid confusion, since "our leader is one, the Christ". Some friends are assuming that the removal of many of the old cross references must mean a change in thinking for those passages. There are large numbers of them now gone. However, the old cross reference to Heb 13: 17 is still valid though, since it's a translation issue not a doctrinal one. The Greek word is the same in Matthew 2: 6. The KIT also remains unchanged as "governing".
This weeks mid-week meeting mentions the "two families" in Jeremiah. There was an old cross reference to Ezekiel associating the "two families" with the "two sticks" - one for "Joseph" and the other for "Judah" - that become one. We recently adjusted our understanding of the "two sticks" but the content for the meeting is based on references from 2007... (See reference Bible Jeremiah 33: 24 cross reference Ezekiel 37: 19) However, this is clearly a doctrinal issue. (See "Questions From Readers" Pp 31-32 JULY Study WT 2016) The adjustment shows that the northern and southern parts of Israel became one nation when they returned to Jerusalem in 537 BCE. A parallel is drawn to our day, stating that from 1919 CE onward God's people have been gradually reorganised and reunited. Judah refers to the Heavenly hopers or "little flock" and Joseph refers to the Earthly hopers or "other sheep". This adjustment didn't really sit well because it had so many repercussions or ripples. One major one, being that in order for the modern Judah and Joseph to be brought together, it would mean that the "other sheep" was always a separate group that existed prior to the "Spiritual Babylonian Exile" that we also recently adjusted to run from circa 2nd century ending in 1919 CE. If true, then there were "other sheep" during the first century too, existing as a separate group with a separate hope. (See article "Called Out of Darkness" Pp 21 - 25 NOVEMBER Study WT 2016) To be clear, in order to bring the two [modern] sticks together, they both had to exist prior to being apart.
I don't necessarily think that the removal of many cross references means adjustments ahead. Some undoubtedly will, but some, I think, were just part of simplifying them down.
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Sorry, but respectfully disagree, they're just synonyms.In Māori, the word Whakaaro is used for Purpose in the brochure Good News From God. Whakaaro literally means Thought or Thinking. In NZ Sign we use "Goal" or "Plan".
Plans, usually include contingencies. So if one direction was blocked, your plan would have the contingency for that which would effectively be your description of purpose wouldn't it?
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I think this is largely semantics. In NZ Sign Language the sign for purpose is "goal" or "plan". It's really just an English language issue because it is a mish-mash of languages having many different words that mean the same thing.
These are a few of the English synonyms of Purpose:
Plan, intention, determination, aim, design, goal...
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18 hours ago, admin said:
There are three major branches of Christianity.
I placed your group under that particular category as another fork similar to Adventism:
No offense is intended and I understand that every religion debates their colocation next to others.
See chart below:
@The Librarian placed an article on JW's here:
He mentions that it is a millenarian / restorationist religion ....
[edited] Thank you...
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This is our official position is found here:
Just thought I 'd point this out. Although, we may be interpreted that way from non-witnesses...
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Hi Darlene, ask question? Are you deaf? I have many deaf friends! Me hearing though.
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This weekend, congregations from all around the Australasian Branch Zone will be attending a program that will be streamed to hundreds of congregations on Saturday and Sunday. Those attending on Saturday will be watching the live event. While those attending on the Sunday will experience the recording. The program is as follows:
Music Video
Song & Prayer
Watchtower Summary
Interviews/ Report (Updates on progress of Kingdom interests)
Song & Announcements
Special Talk - Brother Patrick LaFranca (Helper to the Personnel Committee)
Song & Concluding Prayer
(Approximately 2 hrs 40 minutes)
some evidently not aware something has changed since that outline came out...
ala "Cloud" hehe
Do Jehovahs Witnesses shun Child Victims of Sexual Abuse
in Topics
Posted
Hi Nicola, you've made too many assumptions and hence drawn some conclusions based or some poor assumptions. It may be an age related issue, but I have no intention of discussing anything further with you, as it would just end up in an argument. Thank you for your attempt, good day to you...