TiagoBelager

So, JWI,
Why don't you take your theories, very heavily tinged with preterism as they are, and communicate them to the Governing Body? Well, if we are to believe you, all you need to add in your submissions of your theories is that some of them are somewhat like Ray Franz' theories, and like other responsible, not-disfellowshipped Bethelite brothers' theories, but who were not disfellowshipped because they did not promulgate them. Oh, but here your situation is not quite like those other brothers' situation, because you do promulgate what you feel are theories that have greater merit than what are currently identified as the doctrines that are preached by Jehovah's Witnesses, preached with Jehovah's blessings! 
Tiago

So, JWI,
Why don't you take your theories, very heavily tinged with preterism as they are, and communicate them to the Governing Body? Well, if we are to believe you, all you need to add in your submissions of your theories is that some of them are somewhat like Ray Franz' theories, and like other responsible, not-disfellowshipped Bethelite brothers' theories, but who were not disfellowshipped because they did not promulgate them. Oh, but here your situation is not quite like those other brothers' situation, because you do promulgate what you feel are theories that have greater merit than what are currently identified as the doctrines that are preached by Jehovah's Witnesses, preached with Jehovah's blessings! 
Tiago

So, JWI,
Why don't you take your theories, very heavily tinged with preterism as they are, and communicate them to the Governing Body? Well, if we are to believe you, all you need to add in your submissions of your theories is that some of them are somewhat like Ray Franz' theories, and like other responsible, not-disfellowshipped Bethelite brothers' theories, but who were not disfellowshipped because they did not promulgate them. Oh, but here your situation is not quite like those other brothers' situation, because you do promulgate what you feel are theories that have greater merit than what are currently identified as the doctrines that are preached by Jehovah's Witnesses, preached with Jehovah's blessings! 
Tiago

JWI,
I would not want you at my side in field service. You do not preach the same message of the Kingdom that Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Your last post shows me that you are a preterist. Your message that you preach here does not cohere with the Scriptures. You say that you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses? No, you are not; in your heart you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Tiago.
 

JWI,
There were "several people" at Bethel and elsewhere who were aligned with Ray Franz, but when they were exposed . . . well, you know or should know their history.
You preach on this forum that Revelation does not show us that it would be sometime future to the apostle John's writing of Revelation that Jesus would became enthroned over mankind. Since that event, he has power by holy spirit for building up and protecting true Christians for their continued existence in these last days as an international brotherhood, despite Satan's increased activities for bringing about great woe for the earth, and bringing about persecutions designed to crush the international brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. Existence of the only international brotherhood is a miracle of holy spirit, and only in these last days has it become of sufficient strength and organization for giving a worldwide witness to Jehovah's satisfaction. But all of that is owing to the Lord's last-days enthronement. One of his first acts following 1914 when he was made the specially empowered King over mankind was the casting of the Devil and his angels out of Heaven. You cannot preach such things in good conscience, can you? Then you do not belong among us Jehovah's Witnesses. Just bring the preachments you have posted on this forum and lay all of them before the eyes of the elders in your congregation, and see if they agree with you that you deserve recognition as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWI,
I would not want you at my side in field service. You do not preach the same message of the Kingdom that Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Your last post shows me that you are a preterist. Your message that you preach here does not cohere with the Scriptures. You say that you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses? No, you are not; in your heart you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Tiago.
 

JWI,
There were "several people" at Bethel and elsewhere who were aligned with Ray Franz, but when they were exposed . . . well, you know or should know their history.
You preach on this forum that Revelation does not show us that it would be sometime future to the apostle John's writing of Revelation that Jesus would became enthroned over mankind. Since that event, he has power by holy spirit for building up and protecting true Christians for their continued existence in these last days as an international brotherhood, despite Satan's increased activities for bringing about great woe for the earth, and bringing about persecutions designed to crush the international brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. Existence of the only international brotherhood is a miracle of holy spirit, and only in these last days has it become of sufficient strength and organization for giving a worldwide witness to Jehovah's satisfaction. But all of that is owing to the Lord's last-days enthronement. One of his first acts following 1914 when he was made the specially empowered King over mankind was the casting of the Devil and his angels out of Heaven. You cannot preach such things in good conscience, can you? Then you do not belong among us Jehovah's Witnesses. Just bring the preachments you have posted on this forum and lay all of them before the eyes of the elders in your congregation, and see if they agree with you that you deserve recognition as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

JWI,
I would not want you at my side in field service. You do not preach the same message of the Kingdom that Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Your last post shows me that you are a preterist. Your message that you preach here does not cohere with the Scriptures. You say that you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses? No, you are not; in your heart you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Tiago.
 

The term "governing body" is a legal term, defining within the Christian system a body of men who are charged with responsibility for making sure that the Christian congregation is protected from sectarianism, from those who would create dissension through private interpretation. In the first century, such oversight was per force carried out in a time-costly manner because a congregation in a distant region might have to wait months for the arrival of envoy(s) dispatched with a letter from the governing body, or a letter from its duly commissioned deputy, the apostle Paul, who was approved by the governing body for his work (see Galatians 2:9, 10). The letter might detail corrections that should be implemented, decrees that must be observed to protect the unity of God's people (e.g., 1 Cor. 11:10, 16). 
So, Yes! A decree is a judicial/juridical term, and implies that a governing body had approved it and had dispatched men to deliver it to the congregations (see Acts 16:4). Surely we will not say that the pillars in the Jerusalem congregation, which included more men than just the group of the twelve, were in violation of Jesus' exhortation so that by that violation the men of the governing body issuing decrees had their position in that body because they had gone against the spirit of Jesus' words that "all of you are brothers!" And neither has the Congregation's present-day governing body violated the spirit of Jesus' words. 

The term "governing body" is a legal term, defining within the Christian system a body of men who are charged with responsibility for making sure that the Christian congregation is protected from sectarianism, from those who would create dissension through private interpretation. In the first century, such oversight was per force carried out in a time-costly manner because a congregation in a distant region might have to wait months for the arrival of envoy(s) dispatched with a letter from the governing body, or a letter from its duly commissioned deputy, the apostle Paul, who was approved by the governing body for his work (see Galatians 2:9, 10). The letter might detail corrections that should be implemented, decrees that must be observed to protect the unity of God's people (e.g., 1 Cor. 11:10, 16). 
So, Yes! A decree is a judicial/juridical term, and implies that a governing body had approved it and had dispatched men to deliver it to the congregations (see Acts 16:4). Surely we will not say that the pillars in the Jerusalem congregation, which included more men than just the group of the twelve, were in violation of Jesus' exhortation so that by that violation the men of the governing body issuing decrees had their position in that body because they had gone against the spirit of Jesus' words that "all of you are brothers!" And neither has the Congregation's present-day governing body violated the spirit of Jesus' words. 

The term "governing body" is a legal term, defining within the Christian system a body of men who are charged with responsibility for making sure that the Christian congregation is protected from sectarianism, from those who would create dissension through private interpretation. In the first century, such oversight was per force carried out in a time-costly manner because a congregation in a distant region might have to wait months for the arrival of envoy(s) dispatched with a letter from the governing body, or a letter from its duly commissioned deputy, the apostle Paul, who was approved by the governing body for his work (see Galatians 2:9, 10). The letter might detail corrections that should be implemented, decrees that must be observed to protect the unity of God's people (e.g., 1 Cor. 11:10, 16). 
So, Yes! A decree is a judicial/juridical term, and implies that a governing body had approved it and had dispatched men to deliver it to the congregations (see Acts 16:4). Surely we will not say that the pillars in the Jerusalem congregation, which included more men than just the group of the twelve, were in violation of Jesus' exhortation so that by that violation the men of the governing body issuing decrees had their position in that body because they had gone against the spirit of Jesus' words that "all of you are brothers!" And neither has the Congregation's present-day governing body violated the spirit of Jesus' words. 

Even if what is being taught will, in Jehovah's timing of matters, become a thing abandoned, yet He can allow it until He corrects it. The saying went out in the brotherhood that the Lord prophesied that the apostle John would not die but would remain until the Lord's return. That was a wrong interpretation that Jehovah let go out among the brothers, but was not corrected until very near John's death. It did not make any of those brothers false prophets, though maybe they had let themselves become unduly excited in what they were saying now that John had become so very aged, relatively speaking. Maybe some of those excitable brothers in a short while even let themselves become embittered against John: 'Why had he waited so long to disabuse our minds?' Another and last-days example: the organization had pyramidology in the subjects taught.  It was something that should not have been preached/taught, but it takes time to see the error in some doctrines. I knew that history before I was baptized, but it never colored my stance towards Jehovah's Witnesses who were teaching me. I have never felt any embarrassment about our history from 1874 right on up until today. I am proud of the selfless devotion of C.T. Russell, J.F. Rutherford, Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, and so many others I cannot take the time to name here. If there is no idolatry, nothing that encourages or excuses sexual immorality, nothing that attacks the holiness of our God Jehovah, nothing that would make us bloodguilty or overlook how it can be incurred, nothing that preaches abandonment of the Kingdom hope, etc., then Jehovah may for a time overlook errors in certain doctrines.
Having said all that, I do not think at this time that the Parousia did not begin in 1914, but I think that there is a part of its duration in this wicked system of things that will be capped at Armageddon, but also that it will extend for another 1000 years thereafter. Yes, I see nothing that means that there were not 7 symbolic times that began in 607 BCE and ended in 1914 CE. (Discussions of Babylonian cuneiform tablets do not shape my judgment that 70 years of desolation ended in 537 BCE in the 7th month of the Jewish calendar; I see that a focus for the 70 years desolation on Judah is aligned with a period of time from when that land was not a scene for sacrifices to Jehovah until when such were restored, i.e., from 607 BCE to 537 BCE.)
Tiago
 

Even if what is being taught will, in Jehovah's timing of matters, become a thing abandoned, yet He can allow it until He corrects it. The saying went out in the brotherhood that the Lord prophesied that the apostle John would not die but would remain until the Lord's return. That was a wrong interpretation that Jehovah let go out among the brothers, but was not corrected until very near John's death. It did not make any of those brothers false prophets, though maybe they had let themselves become unduly excited in what they were saying now that John had become so very aged, relatively speaking. Maybe some of those excitable brothers in a short while even let themselves become embittered against John: 'Why had he waited so long to disabuse our minds?' Another and last-days example: the organization had pyramidology in the subjects taught.  It was something that should not have been preached/taught, but it takes time to see the error in some doctrines. I knew that history before I was baptized, but it never colored my stance towards Jehovah's Witnesses who were teaching me. I have never felt any embarrassment about our history from 1874 right on up until today. I am proud of the selfless devotion of C.T. Russell, J.F. Rutherford, Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, and so many others I cannot take the time to name here. If there is no idolatry, nothing that encourages or excuses sexual immorality, nothing that attacks the holiness of our God Jehovah, nothing that would make us bloodguilty or overlook how it can be incurred, nothing that preaches abandonment of the Kingdom hope, etc., then Jehovah may for a time overlook errors in certain doctrines.
Having said all that, I do not think at this time that the Parousia did not begin in 1914, but I think that there is a part of its duration in this wicked system of things that will be capped at Armageddon, but also that it will extend for another 1000 years thereafter. Yes, I see nothing that means that there were not 7 symbolic times that began in 607 BCE and ended in 1914 CE. (Discussions of Babylonian cuneiform tablets do not shape my judgment that 70 years of desolation ended in 537 BCE in the 7th month of the Jewish calendar; I see that a focus for the 70 years desolation on Judah is aligned with a period of time from when that land was not a scene for sacrifices to Jehovah until when such were restored, i.e., from 607 BCE to 537 BCE.)
Tiago
 

To use the illustration of the woman who is pregnant. There is no doubt she is pregnant because the signs are there. One can see she is pregnant long before the birth pains start. ( conclusion of system).  Later the birth pains start to intensify severely (problems intensify - great tribulation) and then the birth/end.
We know the signs are here on earth that Jesus has been ruling amidst his enemies since 1914.   We expect the conditions to severely intensify before the end.

To all,
Let none of us fall into the trap of thinking that there is nothing crucially supplied our relationship with God by the guidance/corrections we are meant to find in our study of end-times prophecies (see as an example that we are meant to find such prophecy in the book of Revelation at 1:3; 22:7). Revelation alerts us that Satan would, in these last days, set traps for ensnaring unwary peoples of the earth into works of the flesh and into idolatrous (political) schemes, things opposed to God's Kingdom and His righteousness. Jehovah's people have taken to heart the prophecy of Revelation so that we neither add something to dilute any of its warnings, nor hide/withhold in our preaching any part of the prophecy about the Kingdom and what role its establishment must have in our lives in these last days (cf. Revelation 22:18, 19).  We know the identities of the various beasts and the identity of Babylon the Great; we know what are our responsibilities towards peoples of the earth for our trying to help them to respond to the call we participate in giving, namely, "Come! . . . Let anyone who wishes take life's water free" (Revelation 22:17). Read again the following passages in Revelation as to how invaluable and crucial to us is our understanding and obedience to Revelation: Revelation 2:6, 10, 13, 15; 3:19; 7:9, 10, 15; 9:3-11, 19, 21; 10:11; 11:6, 7, 11-13; 12:11; 13:15; 14:4, 6, 9, 10, 12, 16; 16:15, 21; 17:8, 9; 18:2, 3; 19:5, 6; 20:4; 21:8; 22:7, 11, 12, 15-17, 19.
Tiago
 

JW Insider,
I have made some corrections and clarifications in an edit of the post to which you responded. In the main, nothing of substance as might affect my uses of Zechariah 1:12 and 7:3, 5 has been made. Those verses do not stand as any hindrance to our using 539 B.C.E. as the fall of Babylon, and thus 537 B.C.E. as the year when the Jews were able to resume offering sacrifices to Jehovah in Jerusalem, thus ending a period of 70 years from when the the desolation of the land had begun in 607 B.C.E. In fact, absence in Zechariah 7:5 of mention of the fasts of the 4th and 10th months actually supports the conclusion that there really was an actual 70-years period of time that began with the absence of sacrifices, which was caused by events in the 5th and 7th months. And so it is understandable why Jehovah did not mention, in Zech. 7:5, the 4th and 10th months, and that because the memorial fasts in those months did not commemorate events that caused a real 70-years period of time during which sacrifices were not offered; the fasts of the 4th and 10th months did not fit Jehovah's rationale for why He was singling out for comment just a 70-years period of time. Jehovah's audience was only too painfully aware of what those 70 years had meant for them. Assuming that some were not merely keeping the fasts perfunctorily, but felt sadness for events that meant a 70 years absence from the land, we have Jehovah's assurance that they had the wrong kind of sadness, a sadness for their loss but not for what their sins had cost Jehovah. Whatever the motivation for the fasts -- whether for sake of just perfunctorily going along with the crowd, or whether out of self-pity, the fasts were hypocritical. They ought never to have commenced so long as they were not going to occur out of repentance, and certainly no good reason could ever obtain as motivation for why the fasts might continue, for they had been continuing now for about 18 years since restoration of Jehovah's worship in Jerusalem. Again, the verse certainly does not hinder our chronology, but actually supports the conclusion that a real 70-years absence of sacrifices had ended in 537 B.C.E., though the fasts themselves had not ended. Finally, some Jews were sensing the nation's problem with the fasts, and so they wanted Jehovah's viewpoint about whether to continue the fasts. Jehovah pointed out that the nation indeed had a problem with the fasts' continuance. Why, they had had an unrecognized problem with them even during the nation's 70-years absence from the land when they were keeping the fasts in Babylon. During those 70 years, they really were making displays of hypocritical sadness. 
Respectfully,
TiagoBelager

To all,
Let none of us fall into the trap of thinking that there is nothing crucially supplied our relationship with God by the guidance/corrections we are meant to find in our study of end-times prophecies (see as an example that we are meant to find such prophecy in the book of Revelation at 1:3; 22:7). Revelation alerts us that Satan would, in these last days, set traps for ensnaring unwary peoples of the earth into works of the flesh and into idolatrous (political) schemes, things opposed to God's Kingdom and His righteousness. Jehovah's people have taken to heart the prophecy of Revelation so that we neither add something to dilute any of its warnings, nor hide/withhold in our preaching any part of the prophecy about the Kingdom and what role its establishment must have in our lives in these last days (cf. Revelation 22:18, 19).  We know the identities of the various beasts and the identity of Babylon the Great; we know what are our responsibilities towards peoples of the earth for our trying to help them to respond to the call we participate in giving, namely, "Come! . . . Let anyone who wishes take life's water free" (Revelation 22:17). Read again the following passages in Revelation as to how invaluable and crucial to us is our understanding and obedience to Revelation: Revelation 2:6, 10, 13, 15; 3:19; 7:9, 10, 15; 9:3-11, 19, 21; 10:11; 11:6, 7, 11-13; 12:11; 13:15; 14:4, 6, 9, 10, 12, 16; 16:15, 21; 17:8, 9; 18:2, 3; 19:5, 6; 20:4; 21:8; 22:7, 11, 12, 15-17, 19.
Tiago
 

Jesus' apostles were undoubtedly perplexed that (earthly) Jerusalem was not to be the scene of an irruption (sic) of divine power for giving Jesus a throne in Jerusalem as manifestation that Messianic kingdom rule had begun once again in Jerusalem with Heaven's backing. And if such were not in store for Jesus in connection with Jerusalem, then exactly what should they expect--where should they look--for any visible manifestation that finally the time had come that God had given Jesus a Messianic (Davidic) throne? No, Jesus would not be holed up in some desert redoubt with an army of sword-bearing warriors, nor would he be secretly conspiring with any Jewish nationalists for subverting Roman rule by whipping up the masses for frenzied attacks against Roman soldiers in Judea. 
Now, the book of Revelation is meant to refine the thinking of Christians as to the nature of the Parousia (see Rev. 1:10, 19; 6:2). Would the Parousia involve miraculous manifestation of divine power for securement of Jesus' throne? Yes, but it should require eyes of faith to see it (compare Revelation 12:1), just as it did for anyone seeing (appreciating) "the sign of Jonah" (Jesus' resurrection), because even though one may not be able to bear eyewitness testimony that he had ever seen the resurrected Jesus, yet still by his eyes of faith he knows Jesus lives even as one made alive in a glorified, spiritual organism (see 2 Corinthians 5:16). And though the book of Revelation helps us to see that even though the Parousia involves a miraculous irruption of divine power for the enthronement of the heavenly Son of God, and that it requires eyes of faith to see it, yet should we not also see that the Parousia is not brought to an end just as soon as Jesus' heavenly throne has been secured against any further attempts by Satan and his angels to ruin the enthronement event (see Rev. 12:3-10)? Yes, we should see as much. Jesus has much to accomplish during all the time of his royal visitation (+1000 years)--much more to accomplish during all the time he has his heavenly throne for his giving special attention to what all goes on here on earth before the last enemy is brought to nothing (see Rev. 6:1, 2, 9-11; 7:9-17; 11:15; 12:10-12; 17:9-11 for some of the things that take place over an extended period of time during -- after commencement of -- the Lord's day/Parousia). 

We know that the men who govern Christian.Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses are not writers of God-inspired messages; they do not write material on a par with the Scriptures. What we do know is that the first-century Christian congregation had a governing body, and a work greater in scope than what Christians accomplished in the first century is being accomplished in these last days, which again requires existence of a governing body, too. Refinements in doctrine are to be expected, maybe even as will yet affect the way we view the date 1914.. What I mean is this: we do not push ahead of direction from our Governing Body so that we remain in harmony in preaching a message that is not garbled with discordant "notes" that are off key, but remains a message that is a clarion call for all hearing it that they should be spiritually ready for the great day of God the Almighty. When it becomes Jehovah's time for refinements, we will all of us get them at the same time so that we remain united.