mateo

Thanks. And sorry to make you repeat yourself. You have said a lot of these things before. And, of course, I have my own way of dealing with the WTS historical problems. Just as Israel went through experiences they could learn from, I think the association of Witnesses can learn from these experiences, too. In the spirit of love and forgiveness we should not rehash this history except in the context of a loving, but stern reminder, when we see a dangerous signal that some similar experience awaits us again if we haven't learned from past mistakes.
It's easy to understand why someone would leave the 'organization' and say it's not for them, and they might go so far as to tell others to stay away. And some take it to a further extreme and say it's a den of false prophets and a lurking place of demons and hated birds, etc. But I don't expect any of those persons to also say that every member of the anointed remnant will be found passing through such a "despised" organization at one time or another. It makes a paradox out of the message that everyone should "get out of her" if it's also a place that all the anointed must pass through. What if your preaching keeps an anointed person from ever going through Satan's "test" organization in the first place? It's also a problematic theory, from your perspective I'd think, for those who are born into the organisation, and who leave before their anointing is sure.

Quite an admission on your part. But you shouldn't use forgetfulness as a "tactic." I certainly don't. Makes you sound like someone in every congressional hearing I've ever seen.
This is pure blame-shifting. You used the word "reinstate." I said I doubt it. Then you backed off your original claim about reinstatement and changed it to "come up with a Raymond supporter" and now you change it to "Bethelite and friend." So who is resorting to wordplay again?
Also, you have admitted to creating multiple accounts here. I have one account. Then you admit that you speak of "team JWI" because of my true accusation against you. This is the very definition of blame-shifting. It's about the same as Pee-Wee Herman saying, "I know you are but what am I?"
You are either confused, or as you admitted to doing before, perhaps you are using forgetfulness as a tactic. Including R.Franz and E.Dunlap (not including E.Chitty and L.Greenlees dismissed for unrelated reasons) only about 4, maybe 5 persons finally, were dismissed from Writing, and it was mostly the group that worked on the Aid Book. The actual expression you quote was about writers who built up the date 1975, not about dismissing people from the Writing Department:
*** w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 par. 6 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***
In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date. In fact, far from being dismissed, those persons between 1968 and 1975 were more often rewarded and promoted for it, as they were showing loyalty to a theory being especially promoted by Fred Franz in spite of the measure of doubt that some "disloyal" people were expressing. Many of these early supporters of Fred Franz were coming from the Service Department (from where "[Our] Kingdom Ministry"/"Our Kingdom Service" had included a few infamous, pro-1975 statements) and the most "loyal" of these persons were "promoted" to the Writing Department.
Ironically, this very line in the "Choosing" book, was what prompted L.Greenlees to slam down on the desk of its writer (R.Lengtat) with Greenlees yelling about how this admission of guilt had "slipped through the cracks." There was a kind of unwritten rule in Writing that you NEVER admit guilt because it will be used against you. In those days, even if a false doctrine were being corrected, you never said you were "wrong" before, only that you were now "more right" -- the "light was getting even brighter."
Never. I worked in the Art Department from just a few weeks after I arrived right up until I left Bethel. Simultaneously, I handled several research assignments for a specific committee reporting directly to Bert Schroeder for my last 4 years at Bethel and for a few years beyond while living in NYC. Most of the Art Department was either on or within one floor of the Writing Department at the time, just outside the Bethel Library at 124.
LOL! How could anyone make such a claim? I've never claimed anything like that.
I didn't say it wasn't possible, only that it wasn't substantiated as you claimed it could be.
If it makes you feel better, I will admit that I consider you to be an "opposer." For a while, I admit that I really thought you might be the kind of opposer who just pretends to be a JW, so that it will appear that JWs always choose the Watchtower over the Bible no matter what the evidence. I thought you were trying to make it look like all JWs were in a cult. I soon realized that you were more likely a person who doesn't even realize he is opposing the Bible whenever the Watchtower makes an unsubstantiated claim. But I should also repeat that I love the truth of the Bible, and love the fact that the brothers who take the lead are primarily focused on serving Jehovah and they focus more on the moral character it takes to be a true Christian.
Sure, we also have carried over some odd doctrinal traditions, but there is no excess focus on such kinds of doctrines. When the GB have looked more closely at some of these through careful Bible study, they have made changes that seem to be almost always for the better, in my opinion. And is it a bad thing that the rest of us follow their lead, and adjust our thinking right along with them? Not at all. It shows that we are not married to the incorrect doctrines of the past. It shows that we humbly follow along and understand that progress will continue. We don't think it necessary to get out there and clamor for changes on our own timetable. We are satisfied that the rate of progress is reasonable. When Brother Splane gave a talk about this recently, he used the example of a person who just loved the ideas about the "great pyramid" but that when the change was made, he humbly accepted and followed the lead. He used this as an example for those who just loved the ideas about the prophetic dramas in all the Bible narratives and parables. Yet now that these hundreds of doctrines are being dropped, the brothers will humbly accept and follow the lead -- appreciating the progress.
This is a public forum, however, open to people who can read material and evidence from anywhere. So it is also a good place for Witnesses to show that they can hold their own opinions too. And even for fellow Witnesses, there is something called the Inoculation Effect or Inoculation Theory that can make it easier for other Witnesses to understand what kinds of changes and effect the Internet will undoubtedly have on us in the next few years. We will either have to completely change our focus onto "low-information" converts, or face facts. I prefer that we allow all ends of the information spectrum without prejudice.
 
---------edited to add:----------
Bethelites are most likely STILL gossiping about R.Franz and R.Wheelock and even Joe and Barbara Anderson, even in 2017. But just to keep the timeline straight, the best evidence we have on all this still comes from R.Franz himself wh says:
R.Franz and his wife, Cynthia, requested a leave of absence in March 1980 and left Bethel late in March. In late April 1980 a list of questions was prepared by B.Schroeder and it was given to G.Suiter, K.Klein, J.Barr, L.Barry to begin questioning E.Dunlap first, then Schroeder himself interviewed the Writing Department. The secret tape where a Spanish brother had said that Cris Sanchez (Bethelite in Spanish Translation) had told him that even Rene Vazquez and Raymond Franz had similar questions had already been played for the Governing Body by Schroeder. I know that Schroeder was trying to set things in motion from late 1979 against R.Franz and it was finally working for him as of April 22, 1980 when Schroeder asked R.Franz if he could get to Brooklyn on April 29th.  Cris Sanchez was about to be disfellowshipped a few days later, on April 25, 1980, and Bert Schroeder had evidently tried to trick Raymond Franz into a judicial meeting to be held for him on April 29, 1980 to take advantage of the momentum. The GB didn't admit to Franz that his name was involved in this until May 8, 1980 and Franz flew back on May 19, 1980 for his first "trial."

Watched your video - first of all - they have not built and sold and built and sold buildings.  Those buildings in Brooklyn were the  head-offices since they acquired them until now. They needed to get out of that area. I read and article which explained this. Technology has changed and so has logistics.  Many of the films are outsourced to different branches.  We have much less magazines being printed now. Every branch gets a video to produce - and why is he politicizing this?  It is easier for the GB to delegate.   We are not an American company.  Our branches are registered all over the world - it is law. The GB only oversee the most important function - the food at proper time - and delegate this!  So we are an international organization. I smell a nationalistic USA-rat in these comments and you fell for it hook line and sinker!
When one serves Jehovah one chooses a life-long career and serves 'where ever' you can.  If one goes to serve in the building area you get skills you did not have before and can go and open a small business of your own afterward. Most pioneers (outside Bethel) do not have that! They get by on part-time work wherever they can find it to do the preaching work.  I do not see them whining!
BUT the other side of the coin is: some opportunistic individuals want to get into Bethel so they can have a long and "secure" career while getting a roof over their head and a plate of food every day.   I am sorry, my heart does not cry for someone who professes to have had all the right motives and then after he is let go, shows that he did not have all the right motives after all - and then lets a brother go and smear his brothers as if they have done him a grave injustice!  It reminds me of Cain..... Jehovah told him to not let the evil control him.... and he did not get control of it.    Now this poor soul has to work for a living like everyone else!   After being in a cozy institutionalized position he is angry because it is not perpetuated!  
When you let people go it is usually the ones who are not bringing their full share or do jobs that are no longer needed - am I right?  Any company in the world works this way.   Why should they tolerate hangers-on who is more of a burden than an asset?  His attitude may have got him fired...  so whiney and this brother gave him all the wrong advice - he is not a helpless individual..... he must stand up and be a man.
Most pioneers clean buildings to pioneer!  I know several of them - and they do it cheerfully! You do not need skills for that. He can do that. .... but no .... he is whining because he now has a "reality" hitting him and he has to take responsibility for his own life! 
We are living in the 21 century - technology changing all the time.  When there was a lot of printing to do (in 20th century) it was the case that they looked after you until after retirement! He wants the world-wide brothers pay for his keep until he dies because he willingly donated some of his time to them?  My advice to him.... grow up and be a man!
And your deviant personality is showing by posting this video!  You have no wisdom- only some knowledge!
 
Revelation is misapplied.... like many of your other scriptures quoted.  You think because you intimate that you are anointed that you have special skills or "insight" that no-one else has. You forget - there is a final sealing before the end. Now you find yourself without a congregation - and there is an instruction from Jehovah to meet with brothers in Hebrews 10. You are not keeping this command - be aware of that! There are many other commands you are breaking by "beating your brothers" publically.
If I put myself in your shoes- say if you were right on many things - you are still running ahead...... We have instruction from Jesus not to do this. You are stuck on you own ego and having to be "right" and be praised for having the organization change to your special insights!  You reject their correction and willfully go ahead with your own ideas.  Soft-spoken and willful.  (I had some ideas of my own...... but I have held them back.....  I have not run ahead of the organization...... just like Jesus did.)  He had no ego because he only spoke what his father had given him and he served perfectly until death.  Satan wanted undue attention and his desires got him in the position he is in today. It was not about "truth" to him was about being the one with the special light!
You have the same attitude I see with many apostates.  You ignore the bits you do not want to see and just answer the bits you can and then you go around and around on the same track and mislead those who fall for your ideas.  I call it the one mind track - the nihilistic and destructive track.  I believe that wisdom is knowledge which is applied - not just knowledge!  
I agree with the brothers - there is time to look at yourself or go ahead on your destructive path! And admit it - by posting this video your hate is showing.  John said: without love for brothers it is impossible to please Jehovah!

I worked as a reporter and then as a public relations officer for a few large organizations - sitting in on all the board meetings etc. to publicize the companies' strategy.  
I speak from a worldly perspective - a business perspective.  I would not keep redundant workers if my business suffered. Companies do not exist to be a gravy train - but people expect the JW organization to be NICE and IN-efficient -  just because it is a spiritual organization?  They expect the organization to keep on "supporting certain individuals" even if their job has become obsolete?..... With money that other witnesses pay for furthering the preaching work?  What makes this individual so special that he gets supported for life but thousands of other volunteers in the field have to work hard and do their preaching without assistance from the GB. Everyone knows when they enter Bethel that it may be for a long time or a short time but their tenure is not assured.... it is volunteer work after all.  They can leave any time.....
Personal vendettas and these kind of things have no place in the organization. We are not different to other people - the same as everyone else.  The only difference is that one cannot remain a Witness without Jehovah's spirit.  So, if for some reason you have neglected your relationship with Jehovah it will show in a bad attitude! ....especially towards others.....  You start beating on brothers.  I know of very few brothers and sisters who have not had reason to complain...about some perceived unfairness...by someone.... because this world is not perfect and not all brothers act as they should..... but most forgive and get on with the work and keep the unity.  Other people turn nasty and pamper their victimhood! Like an obstructive child!

The other answer of Witness shows ignorance regarding procedures of JWs ......or a deliberate twisting of the facts.  We use scriptures in the 'New Testament' for not associating with those who have become apostates..... not the Old testament.
'Witness' made the accusation that we are inherently violent and would stone if we could - that is a blatant lie!  We would not be following Christ if we had a violent attitude when Jesus said we must love our enemies - especially those who do not love Christ.  I work every day amongst people who could kill me and if circumstances change they most probable will! A pioneer sister recently had her throat cut while on field service.  We carefully work amongst our enemies who have personalities like wolves.
However - the principles are different for those amongst us who have gone back to their "vomit" - apostates. Those people are avoided as they pose a threat to our spirituality and  a threat to the morality and unity of the congregation.  The instruction from the scriptures are not to greet or not to eat with these people. This means that we must avoid association.  THEY are the ones who turn hostile and show their true personality  because they still want to associate with us but resent having to stick to the principles laid down by Jesus through the apostles.
If you want to belong to a golf club - you have to stick to the rules.  If not - you are let go.  Why do people expect JWs to tolerate all kinds of bad behavior when organizations in the WORLD do not even tolerate it?  Their logic is faulty because they are blind to the problem that they have a problem with the authority of Christ and do not want to obey his principles. They deem themselves above the law of Christ. 2 John 9-11
 

FAKE NEWS -  I did not even read the other comments because something is seriously wrong with this item!!
Here are a few things to think about:
There is no name given to this woman. There are no important news sources from reputable news companies. (They would be onto this like a flash)    I looked at the original source of this 'soundbite' and it looks suspicious - any person with malicious intent can record this...."secret" conversation. 
The over-the top - reporting; utmost secrecy of it; and the spreading of it on social media - popular malicious media - is  suspicious.   I do not say it is untrue but this seems to be fake news BECAUSE IT IS ILLOGIC FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
Why was only ONE expelled when an entire "underground network" was going on.  This would surely hit the news because true apostates are nasty, malicious people when they leave the organization (They try to hit back in any possible way they can and in my experience often play the victim- it would make a wonderfully nasty 'victim' story in mainstream media). The group would band together and cause a media stir for sure. Why was a young woman singled out as the leader? .... at such a young age?  Was there other, older people, maybe an elder who was the leader and could have been misleading her?  Then he should have been expelled before she was! There are many more questions which could be asked about this.
Naaa...... fake news.   I do not doubt that maybe a young person was sent home for inappropriate behavior; or she could not fit in with the rigid life style (not everyone can adapt to it) - maybe she really had brazen conduct?  Who knows....
The whole "VICTIM" tone of this story - is like many others I have seen.....  old ploy of Satan.
What I have noticed is the following and I am going to shout it out:  APOSTATES ARE GAINGING GROUND AGAINST JEHOVAH ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE THE ENTIRE INTERNET HAS NOW BECOME  A LURKING PLACE OF DEMONS AND ALL KINDS OF DECEITFUL QUALITIES.  DECEIT AND SLYNESS ARE RULING (AND THEY NOW  HAVE A FREE PLATFORM!) ON WHICH THEY SPREAD THEIR FALSE INFORMATION.  SO IT IS BECOMING HARDER TO DISTINGUISH TRUTH FROM FALSEHOOD IN ALL ARENAS OF THE INTERNET.   NO DOUBT THIS GALVANIZING OF ENEMIES AGAINST JWs WILL EVENTUALLY WIN THE DAY....... WE EXPECT IT IN THE TIME OF THE END!  
If Jehovah does not step in no flesh will be saved - most will lose their faith because of what will be going on.  Satan wants to rule the entire earth and he is slowly getting there by means of oppressive governments,  domineering religions and the vilification of anyone who advocates the truth. The internet is the perfect place for it.  It has become like the Wild West where villains are ruling and "shooting down" all who do not agree.  The public opinion will sway towards all the lies against Jehovah and his people.  (True, we are just a bunch of people with bad qualities like everyone else on earth - but it is Jehovah's spirit which keeps us in the truth and there is NOTHING about ourselves which is wonderful- unless we like to bluff ourselves). Outside in the world you can puff up yourself as wonderful but inside the truth we are too painfully aware of our flaws and yes, sometimes we are treated unfairly by others but we do not turn against Jehovah because of this.
Revelation 16: 14-16 - the propaganda of Satan is getting people ready for the great day of God almighty....  And many false prophets will stand up.  This week I read in Matt 24 that they will kill you and think that they are doing God a favor!  If anyone has doubts about how bad it is going to be - we will be thoroughly tested - especially the anointed!  They will be vilified and all those associated with them.
 

The focus is misplaced! Our loyalty is to Jehovah and Jesus only.  If we accept that the slave is being used by Jehovah we will do all in our power to keep our lives free from wrong and cooperate with them and make sure we do not contribute to Jehovah (and the people associated with his name) to be dragged through the mud! ... 
Unfortunately -  We are all (no matter how faithful we think we are) full of deviation (miss the mark ) - this is the reality of life!  If we do not recognize this fact, then we say we have no sin!  Then we do not need the ransom sacrifice. 
MY brother was in prison for the truth as a young man - he did not mention the offenses to me - but he told me that he was disgusted with some bad habits he saw there which are human deviations and take time to get rid of.  When people live in close proximity under stressful conditions these things tend to come to the surface. Seriously wrong things also occurred and people were dis-fellowshipped and other brothers had to avoid them. This created an extremely difficult situation for all. 
To my mind a place like Bethel is not a natural way of living and hence it is only a place for the strong.  One can see the frailty of human deviation and personality defects up-front - and it may come as a shock to the inexperienced person on the road of life. However, some are prepared to make the sacrifice to go and serve there.  However, we make it a kind of prestige thing - which is wrong.  The wish to service is a wonderful motivation but the underlying culture of prestige is wrong.  This demonstrates the quick way in which humans like to put themselves on pedestals or want to think of themselves as the cream of the crop.  Then they are shocked to see and discover feet of clay!  It takes great effort to stay humble because our imperfection makes us always come up with ways to justify ourselves or make us think we are "good". This is why I always avoid giving honor to people who came from Bethel and hate it when I hear others do this.  Often they have a superior attitude which I find telling.  I used to call them the spiritual elite because they act in that sinful way - but have stopped doing that.
We are all - just "people" like everyone else who is NOT serving Jehovah. The only way we are different to others:- we have been privileged to learn the future plans of Jehovah and dedicated ourselves Him and left the most debased of sins.  However, we need to "progress" with the help of the holy spirit.  If we only have a little bit of that spirit or we do not make an effort to ask and receive it and work in harmony with it - then we can soon find ourselves deviating from what is right.  I believe we can only stay in the truth if we have Jehovah's spirit......and some seem to barely make it because they are focusing more on other things - be it personal goals or just the stress of raising a family.
All people are imperfect.  The problem is that we have pink glasses on regarding our brothers when they actually are people who are fighting their own bad inclinations all the time. Yes we expect a high level of change in their lives and would like to think them perfect when they are not.  Two of the anointed in the time of the apostles dropped down dead after they had lied about the properties they had sold.  One anointed person was dis-fellowshipped because he had slept with his mother! ....and others were not condemning it! Some of our brothers who get dis-fellowshipped have committed multiple sins -  not just one - and then to crown it become rebellious when they are corrected! Judas was sinning over a long period of time! before he betrayed him.
I do not want to sound preachy - but we all know this - but we tend to have a blind eye to this.
We have to be very forgiving sometimes - be a bit more like Jehovah - who has seen all the wickedness right throughout mankind's history and that of his people (from ancient times till now).  We do have good examples in the Bible - but many of them also had serious flaws.  So when we see this we know that Jehovah is truly merciful and we keep on because we know that he is aware that we are imperfect flesh. He knows when we are sincere and doing all that is necessary to progress.
So - the expectation that others must be without serious flaw is fundamentally wrong!