John 12.24to28

I agree with you - Christian values and Bible study amongst family members isn't false, but it is a disfellowshipping offense according to the organization.
 
(That's what I got "disfellowshipped" for. When, motivated by Christian values, I protected my family by reporting abuse, and when I shared the scriptural reasons for doing so with my spiritual family, I was falsely labeled a reviler causing divisions and "disfellowshipped".)
 
Here are screenshots of some of the emails with the local elders. The branch was also sent copies of the information, as well as the GB, the legal department and the service department. They did not follow Bible principles. They protected the abusers and used the disfellowshipping doctrine to remove one of the victims in hopes that their racket of lording it over the flock wouldn't be disturbed.
 
I wrote and wrote to GB to help because they always say "we love you very much." They don't love us. They didn't reply until after my disfellowshipping was announced locally. One of the elders here has a son at Bethel, Jeffrey Fletcher, who is one of Mark Sanderson's secretaries. Interestingly, after my disfellowshipping was announced, my letters from Mark Sanderson came back with a big red "REJECTED" stamped on them.
 

I have a car. It's not perfect, but it gets me where I need to go. Even though it's got issues, I don't throw it out, because it's all I've got to go in, unless I want to walk everywhere.
 
Until we can read Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek and find the original manuscripts (which are no longer in existence) we're going to have to do the best we can with what we've got - imperfectly copied and translated manuscripts and translations. We do have Jehovah's holy spirit to help us apply the Bible counsel; His holy spirit which doesn't corrode or get lost. When we prayerfully follow the Bible direction to the best of our abilities in harmony with holy spirit, we will get through better than if we didn't have Bible principles. 
 
When Jesus gets here, he will tell us directly what to do. He's not here yet. The Bible is the temporary means to get through this mess of a world. It's the best book we've got to direct us. Some people want to throw it out, but I don't recommend it. I've tried three different ways: (1) No Bible direction (2) Bible direction mixed with poisoned publications (3) Bible direction. It's no contest - hands down in my experience following God's Word is the only way to fly.

Here are some screenshots from the articles you cited🙂...
 

 
Jesus' illustration about a faithful slave was part of a set of illustrations talking about keeping on the watch. All Christians are commanded to keep on the watch. Jesus was NOT using that expression as a title or a label or a prophecy about a certain group of leaders. Jesus said "all you are brothers" and "call no one Rabbi or Leader for One is your Leader, God". When someone called Jesus "Good Teacher" he did not accept such a label. Why would Jesus have given such a title as "His Eminence, Most Holy Pope" or "Benevolent Leader" or "Faithful and Discreet Slave" to a man or a group of imperfect men who he told to stamp themselves down and behave as lowly ones? Here's the answer: Jesus didn't give them that title. They took it upon themselves. Shame on them. And shame on them for poisoning the publications with that teaching mixed in with God's Word.
 

 
Jesus didn't set up special schools. The Pharisees had special schools. Jesus didn't set up special publications. The Pharisees had special publications. The arrangement for a commune funded by "voluntary" donations is not scripturally based. The first century Christians were commanded to work for what they ate and not to live off of others. "If he doesn't work, let him not eat." Those who disobeyed such direction were to be marked and avoided. According to Paul's counsel, the Bethelites and the GB and the COs should all be marked and avoided. Certainly most of them are just ignorant to what the Bible teaches, but if they were to reread that chapter where Paul is talking about marking in context they would see it is completely misapplied by the organization. It is their behavior that should be shunned and avoided.
 

 
Jehovah's Word says to take care of your family first. "For if anyone doesn't take care of his family, he is worse than one who disowns the faith." The organization says to work less and volunteer more for their assets, more recently in the building work for projects that they own and can sell. Jesus said such "corban" like arrangements actually negate the sacrifice in God's eyes.
 

 
Jesus taught without movies or books or magazines. He is the one we should follow. (It's not wrong to use such tools, but it shouldn't be put on a level that comes at the cost of sacrificing obedience to the more important things.) Jesus drove out the money-makers from the temple. He said they were making his Father's house a cave of robbers. That's what these guys at Watchtower are doing. They are robbers pretending to use the money for good things. If they were really using the funds well, then they would provide an accounts report, just like the local congregations do. "The righteous one is not afraid of coming to the light, but the wicked one does not come to the light, that his works may not be exposed."
 

 
The Watchtower begs for money from poor people and then says they're not begging. Do you know any other publication that so blatantly asks for funds in this way? At least they could be honest about it and say, please give us your money. Instead they attempt to guilt the friends by putting a bunch of scriptures first and at the ends saying it's like giving to God. Giving to them is not giving to God, it's paying for room and board and healthcare and lawsuits for a bunch of guys that are pulling the wool over the eyes of about 9 million or so people. "Give us your coconuts!!!"
 

 
Here is a link to another thread that has some information on some financial holdings of the organization...
 
 
 
And interestingly enough, if you want to talk to anybody at Bethel over the phone about anything of importance it is almost impossible. I've tried. But chances are you can get through every time if you want to call the number to give money.
 

The organization is asking the friends to give something that Jesus doesn't require. The GB are money lovers. They are cultivating their business in those articles. It's the same thing the Pharisees did.
 
"No servant can be a slave to two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves to God and to Riches.” Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him.  So he said to them: “You are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight."
 
(Luke 16:13-15)

That was the second century version of the elder book/OD book...already adding rules to the rules and mixing good scriptural counsel in with secular theory and Pharisaical traditions. Wheat and weeds growing together, leaven just starting to ferment the dough so it could spread together until the time of the end.
 
 
When Jesus comes, he'll remove the weeds.
 
@Space Merchant as regards those yucky videos (I didn't even want to watch them, the titles and picture was bad enough!😝) obviously Jesus would not want us to go and attempt to worship God with people dressed in drag taking the lead in worship. The Bible's counsel is clear about those who have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power: "from these turn away." There is no need to make extra rules about secret judicial hearings. "From these turn away." Everybody can see that the person is in drag. There's no need for a committee meeting.🙂

I have a car. It's not perfect, but it gets me where I need to go. Even though it's got issues, I don't throw it out, because it's all I've got to go in, unless I want to walk everywhere.
 
Until we can read Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek and find the original manuscripts (which are no longer in existence) we're going to have to do the best we can with what we've got - imperfectly copied and translated manuscripts and translations. We do have Jehovah's holy spirit to help us apply the Bible counsel; His holy spirit which doesn't corrode or get lost. When we prayerfully follow the Bible direction to the best of our abilities in harmony with holy spirit, we will get through better than if we didn't have Bible principles. 
 
When Jesus gets here, he will tell us directly what to do. He's not here yet. The Bible is the temporary means to get through this mess of a world. It's the best book we've got to direct us. Some people want to throw it out, but I don't recommend it. I've tried three different ways: (1) No Bible direction (2) Bible direction mixed with poisoned publications (3) Bible direction. It's no contest - hands down in my experience following God's Word is the only way to fly.

I really, really, really wish you were right, @Equivocation - I wish it with all my heart, but unfortunately I know better - I know for a fact that most of the people in the organization do replace worship of Jehovah with worship of men. I will explain what I mean...
 
Jehovah said that we need to obey Jesus. Jesus said to show love for our neighbor.
 
The governing body says we need to obey what the GB says ahead of what Jesus says. The governing body says we need to show hate for our neighbor.
 
When people in the organization obey the disfellowshipping doctrine, they are obeying men rather than God. When people in the organization show hate to their fellow man by obeying the disfellowshipping doctrine, they are being anti-Christ.
 
It doesn't matter what the rest of any of those articles say, the point was that all the ones that mention the FDS/GB and "obey" and "be thankful" are weaving in false worship with true worship. It's the oldest trick in the book.
 
"Is it really so that God said you must not eat of every tree of the garden?"
 
(They learned it from their father.)

If you don’t mind hanging some innocent people rough justice is very efficient way of keeping a town orderly.
AND consolidating and entrenching the authority and power of the Sheriff’s department.
It’s not the fact that people are being hung, it is that they’re being hung Not in accordance with the law, due process, common sense, and a deep sense of justice. 
Even Jesus said to the whore … “Go your way and sin no more”, which if memory serves, the Society removed those scriptures from the NWT.
It’s in all the other Bibles I checked.
John 8:1-11 IS MISSING!
 

Hi, @Equivocation ! Do you mean the screenshots from the part of the discussion about worship, where we were talking about how the GB/FDS is worshipped in organization? I think that's what you're referring to...
 
If so, it is extremely likely that I have read all the highlighted publications in those screenshots from 2002 to the present (I started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses in 2001 and was baptized in 2002 and always religiously read everything that was published as it came out.) And I've gone back and read a lot of the older publications from prior to that time, but I can't say I've read every single article there (each of the screenshots have a handful of citations because they came up in that order in the jw search - it is up to the person looking at the screenshot to tell which articles apply to the conversation, most of them did).
 
I don't have to read them all to know the GB/elders are worshipped as gods. I already know the GB/elders are worshipped as idols or gods. I know what those articles are about because of the pattern of deception that is woven into them, where they are leading the flock. I wasn't making an assumption. I know from experience how those publications indoctrinate people to worship men ahead of God.
 
As far as "just be careful next time" you don't have to worry about me worshipfully bowing down to those men again (although I do appreciate your concern) - I am strongly determined to never ever make the mistake again of putting worship of men ahead of worship of God.☺️

@Space Merchant I don't know if she answered it but it is obvious why many faiths even us JWs exist and why only a few actually try to figure out what is true or not. We believe we have the truth in what you state as core teachings. For example, the biggest one being why we do not follow the Trinity, as well as not follow Binitarianism. Jesus made it clear, as his followers, that he is the som of the Living God. Paul was right on where Christianity was going and we see that in history, eventually leading up to other faiths rising up knowing some crumb of truth. A lot of people like to bash Bible Students not realizing that in that era they, among many, were still learning about the Bible and prophecy, so when a mistake is made, more study is done. Even Christians around that time were very very eager of the second coming of Christ so can't really blame them from learning and applying afterwards.
Today, more and more people are learning what is the truth about God, so that is definitely a good thing. This goes hand in hand with some traditions, now abandon by some people when they realize the history.
When we Jehovah’s Witnesses go out and preach there are legitimately a lot of people who wants to hear about what the Bible teaches or even expand on what they want to know.

No … each person has different motivations, which sans telepathy, or you ask them … you will never know.
Besides … it’s impossible to “persecute” someone who has more power than you do.
A stereotypical example is the Polish Resistance did not persecute the Nazi invaders ….. the Nazi invaders DID persecute the Polish people.
To react to an oppressor is not persecution of the oppressor.
It’s self defense.

Man, if that's persecution then I've got it easy, lol!😂
 
(I've been through some forms of persecution...I wouldn't call this persecution - it's playtime, kind of like that Whac-A-Mole game at the fair!)
 
 
 
 

"But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness,  and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them.  These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some."
 
(2 Timothy 2:16-18)
 
The GB teaching that Russell and Rutherford and Peter and Paul and the others are already in heaven is a false teaching. The resurrection hasn't happened yet. Those dead guys can't fight about anything for now. 
 
"...there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave..."
 
(Ecclesiastes 9:10)
 
Soon Jesus will take the throne and remove the weeds.😃
 
"When the wicked sprout like weeds
And all the wrongdoers flourish,
It is that they may be annihilated forever."
 
(Psalm 92:7)
 

Jesus said the leaven would ferment the whole lump, and that the wheat and the weeds would grow together. While there are some very good and useful parts of the videos, there are also some weeds and leaven that are spread along with them. My family has benefited very much from the jw.org videos, but we have also been hurt by them.
 
Now that our eyes are opened to the fact that not everything in those videos programs are true, it's easier to disregard the false teachings in them and recognize the parts that are Biblically based.
 
(But it makes me sick watching people gulp them down whole as if everything in them was "the gospel truth"! I used to do the same thing, so I understand why it happens. I'll be glad when Jesus comes and removes all the weeds/leaven.)

Looking back in the thread it looks like "dancin by myself" some of the time except for the quotes from Manny are still there, lol!
 
 
 
Well, he must have gotten deleted for a good reason, so maybe now it's "safer to dance"...😆
 
 
 

Man, if that's persecution then I've got it easy, lol!😂
 
(I've been through some forms of persecution...I wouldn't call this persecution - it's playtime, kind of like that Whac-A-Mole game at the fair!)
 
 
 
 

Yes, I can guarantee you before God that He has not disfellowshipped me. ☺️ Got anymore personal questions? Lol...
 
"But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code."
 
(Romans 2:29)
 
"...received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”  The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children."
 
(Romans 8:15,16)
 
"By your relationship with him, you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands by stripping off the fleshly body, by the circumcision that belongs to the Christ."
 
(Colossians 2:11)
 
It's kinda personal to ask what it feels like to be "circumcised" - I mean, even for physical circumcision it's not something you go around asking people "hey, are you really circumcised?" But I don't mind talking about the circumcision of the heart if you really want to talk about that. 
 
 
John describes those ones here:
 
"Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."
 
(1 John 2:18,19)
 
They were anointed and baptized into Christ, but they have been dis-fellowshipped from the Christ by means of their leaving the truth as taught by the Bible and instead teaching their false doctrines. Even though such ones may have a prominent position in the organization, they do not fool the Christ - he knows those belonging to him and when he comes everyone else will know too.
 
 
That you don't comprehend the sacred secret is clear to me, but by all means, continue with your presentation, this is entertaining. 😃

I have not deceived you, but the GB is deceiving people about many things, which will be very obvious to the entire world soon enough.
 
"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.  He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."
 
(2 Thessalonians 2:3,4)
 
"Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence."
 
(2 Thessalonians 2:8)
 
"The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen."
 
(Matthew 13:31-43)
 
When Jesus receives the kingdom shortly he will remove the lawless ones from the organization, those ones who are claiming to be "leaders" but are only leading the flock into falsehood. They have not been removed yet. They are still publicly showing themselves to be "gods" by means of their self-exaltation and misapplication of the illustration about a faithful and discreet slave - they turn it into a title, which is not what Jesus intended at all.
 

RPReplay_Final1685412517.mov    

I can see you haven't done much research into the financial holdings of the organization.

By saying that the kingdom started in 1914 (even though it didn't) and by claiming to be representatives of that "invisible" kingdom, "stars in Jesus' hand", those taking the lead in the organization accumulated a mass of power and control over the lives of millions, and claimed to do it in the name of God.
 
(How do you think Jehovah feels about that?)
 
True, there has been good accomplished by the organization, just like there was good accomplished in Israel even though polygamy was tolerated and slavery was regulated and animals were sacrificed, but when Jesus gets here he's going to set things straight and a lot of what the congregations think is "normal" is going to be completely thrown out the window.
 
Praise Jehovah.😁

🤣
 
 
Read Daniel chapter 4. There is not one thing in there about a modern fulfillment. There is not one thing in there about weeks of years or some kind of crazy cutting off of Israelite rulership with the Messiah coming in a mysterious numerology puzzle.
 
Jesus said his kingdom was no part of this world, if it was the Jews would have fought that he not be delivered up. Why would the line of mostly corrupt Jewish kings stand for the heavenly government? The "rulership interrupted" theory that the Watchtower teaches is flawed. Jesus said his kingdom was not of the Jewish line. 
 
Putin is the King of the North. He wasn't born yet in 1914. Daniel chapters 11 and 12 show us that Jesus would get the throne in heaven around the time the King of the North was coming to his end, so obviously it wasn't in 1914 or even in the 1950s or at any point from 1900-1999 because Putin didn't become a leader until the 2000s, and not until recently does he seem to have no helper but he still hasn't come to his end yet.
 
 
I wouldn't call any of Satan's subjects "loyal"...they are selfish and get something out of sticking with him, but it's not out of loyalty that they do it.
 
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."
 
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
 
The Bible shows there would be some taking the lead in the congregation who deceived others by means of the operation of Satan. Satan, the ruler of the world, is the one who was behind the war in 1914. He was also the one behind the false prophecies about 1914, which is obvious, since it was based on pyramidology (duh - talk about demonic 🙄)
 
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.  It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."
 
(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

No, you are not correct. Jehovah's holy spirit is evidence that I still have fellowship with Him by means of His Son.
 
"I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all."
 
(John 15:5)
 
"For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons.  For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”  The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children."
 
(Romans 8:13-16)
 
"I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit..."
 
(Romans 9:1)
 
 
The Pharisees used to accuse others of the things the Pharisees were actually guilty of. I wonder why they did that?
 
 
I thought that's what you were doing - charging honest people with false worship. What "commission" are you talking about specifically? Here is what the scriptures say about false shepherds in the congregation...
 
"...certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."
 
(Jude 4)
 
"Too bad for them, for they have followed the path of Cain and have rushed into the erroneous course of Baʹlaam for reward, and they have perished in the rebellious talk of Korʹah!  These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds who feed themselves without fear; waterless clouds carried here and there by the wind; fruitless trees in late autumn, having died twice and having been uprooted;  wild waves of the sea that cast up the foam of their own shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackest darkness stands reserved forever."
 
(Jude 11-13)
 
 
(It's so funny how you keep describing your character with every line! "False presentation"😆 I think @Pudgy said we'd get an award or something...I think it's a reward to play this game, it's fun😃)
 
The Bible says we must be thankful to Jehovah and obey God as ruler rather than man when men tell us something that is not in harmony with God's will. Here is what the publications say...

 
(There were more, but I got bored...)
 
 
I believe what is written in God's Word:
 
"Now we are giving you instructions, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother who is walking disorderly and not according to the tradition that you received from us.  For you yourselves know how you should imitate us, because we did not behave in a disorderly way among you,  nor did we eat anyone’s food free. On the contrary, by labor and toil we were working night and day so as not to impose an expensive burden on any one of you.  Not that we do not have authority, but we wanted to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate.  In fact, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.”  For we hear that some are walking disorderly among you, not working at all, but meddling with what does not concern them.  To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn. For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good.  But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed.  And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."
 
(2 Thessalonians 3:6-15)
 
I don't know about those other people today who claimed to be commissioned, but the Bible shows that Jesus directly commissioned Paul.
 
Paul said those doing the work should earn their own keep. If they didn't, they were to be marked as disorderly and withdrawn from. The whole "marking" business wasn't the way it is in the congregation today - "marking" meant noticing somebody who wanted to be catered to at the expense of the congregation, like the circuit overseers and Bethelites and GB today. We should keep admonishing those ones as brothers to get a job and stop mooching off others.
 
 
 
 

Aw, all my puppet friends always get deleted! Lol...
 

 
 

I believe, Manny, you would pick the nits off a blanket until you froze to death in a pile of nits.

Man, if that's persecution then I've got it easy, lol!😂
 
(I've been through some forms of persecution...I wouldn't call this persecution - it's playtime, kind of like that Whac-A-Mole game at the fair!)