bruceq

Expert analysis used in trial of Bible absurd
BIBLE IN JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' TRANSLATION RULED EXTREMIST
SOVA Center for News and Analysis, 18 August 2017
 
On 17 August 2017, the Vyborg city court granted the lawsuit of the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor for finding to be extremist the publications "Sacred Scripture. New World Translation" (that is, the Bible of the Jehovah's Witnesses), 2015 edition, and also brochures "The Bible and its Main Theme," "Science Instead of the Bible?" and "How to Improve Health. 5 Simple Rules." The court's decision has still not taken legal effect and may be appealed, the website of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia reports.
 
The edition of the Bible was seized by Vyborg customs in July 2015. In February 2016, the prosecutor's office sent to the court a lawsuit for finding the publications extremist, and its consideration began in April 2016.
 
In the course of reviewing the lawsuit, on the basis of a petition of the prosecutor, a complex linguistic religious studies judicial expert analysis was conducted. It was carried out by experts of the Center for Socio-Cultural Expert Analysis: kandidat of pedagogical sciences Natalia Kriukova and kandidats of political sciences Alexander Tarasov and Viktor Kotelnikov.
 
Most of the questions placed before the experts regarded the presence in the texts under review of signs of extremism and the wording of relevant legislation was reproduced in these questions. This is a violation of the rules for conducting judicial expert analysis, inasmuch as only a court has the right to answer such questions. At the same time, from the text of the conclusion it follows that the main goal that guided the experts was to answer the questions posed by the investigation in the affirmative.
 
The obvious insubstantiality, impotence, and blatant absurdity of their own arguments did not embarrass them. Thus, to the question whether these materials contain a rationale and justification of the necessity if overthrowing the constitutional structure of the Russian federation, the experts answer: yes, inasmuch as it follows that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the moral depravity of the existing state of things; the imminent end of the world; the victory of Jesus over the devil after seizing the world and destroying all rulers, evil people, and demons; the accession of Jesus; and the start of a new world system. To the question whether the materials presented contain calls for the disruption of the territorial integrity of the Russian federation, the answer again is in the affirmative: yes, inasmuch as Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the inevitability of a change of government with the end of the world and where there is a change of government there is the conquest of territories there. Whether these materials cause religious strife and hatred: yes, inasmuch as they speak of the divine election of Jehovah's Witnesses and the falsity of other religions (of whom are used the collective terms "Babylon the great" and "great whore"). At the same time, the experts cited Old Testament episodes of original sin and the destruction of Babylon, Canaanites, and apostate Israelites after the death of Joshua, and they cited God's blessing of the new Christian assembly and followers of the Christians. To the question whether these materials contain statements about the natural and biological superiority of Jehovah's Witnesses over adherents of other religions, the experts also answer in the affirmative, citing the very same arguments. Among other things, the experts considered as causing religious hatred the criticism of the Catholic church consisting in the fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses' brochure about science in an article about Galileo says that the Catholic Inquisition sentenced him to life-long arrest unjustly and Pope John Paul II admitted this. Whether the Jehovah's Witnesses in their material call for genocide and mass repressions and the establishment of inequality, discrimination, and committing hate crimes, according to the opinion of the experts: yes, after all they believe that God rained down fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah and that disaster awaits at the end of the world.  It is amazing, but the experts in their reviews of texts did not find calls for terrorism (in contrast to mass repressions) or obstruction of the exercise of voting rights by citizens and of legal activity by governmental agencies.
 
The experts of the Center for Socio-Cultural Expert Analysis gave a positive answer to a question of the investigation about the presence in Jehovah's Witnesses' materials of manipulative linguistic and psychological techniques aimed at the formation of negative attitudes toward representatives of other religions. Such things they found in a "special form of presentation of material" (use of inserts, citations, and illustrations with commentary), the use of specific terminology ("vigilance," "last days," "day of darkness and gloom," "little flock," "fiancé," "bride," "wedding," etc.), the formation of positive stereotypes with regard to Jehovah's Witnesses and the "image of the enemy" with regard to representatives of the sinful world that is external to them, "exhortation in the form of infection" (citing examples of a righteous and pious life), "substitution of concepts" (the text contain calls for studying the Bible in the Jehovah's Witnesses' translation, which in the opinion of the experts is not a Bible), and "exhortation in the form of persuasion."
 
From the experts' point of view, the Jehovah's Witnesses' materials "contain information connected with the obligation or encouragement" of members of the congregation "to distance themselves from institutions of civil society," in particular, from family and marriage, inasmuch as they present the Jehovah's Witnesses' view on marriage, and other points of view are not acknowledged. At the same time, the experts refer to statements that adultery is considered a sin and the followers of Christ must not commit adultery. The authors of the expert analysis discovered in the literature reviewed "signs of encouraging the reader to refuse to fulfill duties established by legislation of the RF," specifically refusal of military service, despite the fact that Russian legislation provides the possibility of performing alternative service, and Jehovah's Witnesses perform it.
 
Finally, inasmuch as there exists in Russia a law forbidding finding the sacred scriptures of world religions and excerpts from them to be extremist, the investigation placed before the experts the question whether the given materials are "the Bible, Quran, Tanakh, or Gandjur" and whether they contain quotations from these books. The experts' answer, of course, was negative. From their point of view, "Sacred Scripture in the New World Translation" is not a Bible, inasmuch as it differs from the Synodal translation on linguistic, topical, and interpretive levels. This is expressed in the fact that it uses the concept of "Jehovah" instead of the concept of "God," the tetragrammaton is introduced into the text of the New Testament and translated as "Jehovah," the texts of the New Testament about the unity of the nature and the equality of God the Father and God the Son are "changed so that they can be interpreted in the opposite sense," the name of the Holy Spirit is written in lower case letters (which depersonalizes him and contradicts the presentation in the New Testament "as a personality and person of the Holy Trinity"), with the same goal the "verse of 1 Peter 1.11 is distorted," and the internal notation of the text has been changed, and in addition the book does not indicate that it is a Bible, although other translations, particularly the Synodal, do contain such an indication. Inasmuch as the "New World Translation" is not a Bible, the experts indicate, that means that it does not contain quotations from the Bible.
 
The fact that there exists in Russia a court that considers it possible to take into consideration an expert conclusion containing argumentation of such a level casts a shadow onto the entire Russian legal system as a whole and testifies to the most profound crisis of Russian jurisprudence.
 
We consider that recognizing as extremist both the Bible in the Jehovah's Witnesses' translation and their other publications is unjustified and we regard such prohibitions as a manifestation of religious discrimination. The means chosen by the experts and adopted by the court for getting around the law that forbids ruling the sacred scripture of world religions to be extremist is its own sorry precedent, which in the future opens the possibility of the ban of other translations and presentations of sacred books.
 
We recall that on 20 April 2017, the Russian Supreme Court ruled the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia and 395 local congregations to be extremist and the decision has come into force. (tr. by PDS, posted 19 August 2017)

The most important extremist
  10.10.12
If you examine the laws and regulations on extremism and other religious and ideological violations, Jesus Christ violated them all. Only a few examples:

Proclaimed the inferiority of citizens on the basis of attitudes toward religion: "He who does not obey the Son will not see life, but on him is the wrath of God" (John 3:36). 

Propagandized excellence on religious grounds: "He will send His angels and collect His chosen from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the edge of the sky" (Mark 13:27). 

I considered only my religion as true: "I am the way and the truth and the life; No one comes to the Father, except through me "(John 14: 6). 

He insulted the religious feelings of believers: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, that shut the Kingdom of Heaven to men, for you yourself do not go in and do not enter those who do not enter" (Matthew 23:13).

He humiliated the dignity of citizens: "(Jesus) found that oxen, sheep and pigeons were sold in the temple, and money changers were sitting. And having made a scourge of ropes, he drove out from the temple all, [and] both sheep and oxen; And scattered money from the money changers, and overturned their tables "(John 2:14, 15). 

He threatened his opponents with physical violence: "When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the holy angels with him, then he sits on the throne of his glory, and all nations will be gathered before him; And he will separate them from the others, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats ... Then he will say to those on the left: "Go from me, you cursed, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25: 31-33, 41) .

Jesus even destroyed families: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, and brothers and sisters, and besides his very life, he can not be My disciple" (Luke 14:26) . 

... and took away the apartments: "Jesus said to him:" If you want to be perfect, go, sell your property and give money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and then come and follow me "(Matthew 19:21). 

I wonder if Jesus would have gotten off fine just by living today? And why is the Bible still not listed as extremist literature? 
http://chivchalov.blogspot.com/2012/10/blog-post_10.html#more

Court's ban of Bible defies logic and common sense
COURT BANS MODERN TRANSLATION OF BIBLE IN RUSSIA
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 18 August 2017
 
Late in the evening of 17 August 2017, the Vyborg city court announced a decision: to recognize as extremist material the translation of the Bible into modern Russian, which was seized from Jehovah's Witnesses at customs. All of the seized batch should be confiscated with the goal of subsequent destruction. This decision has not taken legal effect and will be appealed in the Leningrad provincial court.
 
Russia became the first European country to officially prohibit a translation of the Bible. The historic decision was issued by Judge Dmitry Grishin on a declaration of the prosecutor's office. During the many hours of sessions, Grishin was presented adequate opportunity to be persuaded that it is the Bible that is the object of the judicial investigation, a book which by law cannot be ruled to be extremist material. In the sessions, dozens of fragments were read from it, whole reams of various editions of the Bible were presented, and comparisons and contrasts of texts were conducted. Judge Grishin directly read dozens of texts from the Bible. The most authoritative specialists in the area of linguistics and religious studies where summoned to the trial from Moscow, who answered all questions of the sides and judge. Representatives of the prosecutor's office, who sought the ban of the Bible, were not able to identify a single biblical quotation that, in their opinion, could be considered extremist. Nevertheless, to universal amazement, the court made the decision to recognize the Bible as extremist material.
 
At the base of this lawsuit lies the expert conclusion of Natalia Kriukova, who did not introduce a single quotation from the text of the Bible but nevertheless came to the conclusion that this book is extremist material. The logic of this expert conclusion consists in the fact that this Bible is extremist material because it is used by Jehovah's Witnesses. The court ignored other scientific conclusions, expert analyses, and reviews existing in the case, which prove conclusively that Kriukova's conclusion is unscientific and contradictory, and that the Bible, which is the object of the lawsuit, really is the Bible. It is noteworthy that mathematics teacher Natalia Kriukova does not have education giving her the right to conduct this investigation.
 
Judge Dmitry Grishin is a kandidat of jurisprudence. When lawyers pointed out to him that this translation of the Bible is included in the catalogue of translations of the Bible published by the American Library of Congress, Grishin told the sides that he has engaged in his own scientific research for many days in the Library of Congress. Nevertheless, on 17 August 2017 Grishin issued a decision to prohibit the Bible, a decision which contradicts science, the law, and common sense. (tr. by PDS, posted 18 August 2017)

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14.10%  Notice the two big jumps right after the first verdict in Russia and then the second verdict in Russia. And since JW.ORG is banned in Russia this is a worldwide increase in searches not just people in Russia searching. As you stated Russia has done more for Jehovah than they realize. 39. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39  but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them.+ Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself  .Acts 5:39.00a%  a

Where do jw.org's visitors come from?
Search Traffic
What percentage of visits to this site come from a search engine?
Search Visits
14.10%  Notice the two big jumps right after the first verdict in Russia and then the second verdict in Russia. And since JW.ORG is banned in Russia this is a worldwide increase in searches not just people in Russia searching. As you stated Russia has done more for Jehovah than they realize. 39. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39  but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them.+ Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself  .Acts 5:39.00a%  a

True tom:
A brother gave a talk about preaching, and he said that Jesus took his disciples apart and explained the parables to them.  Yet Jesus avoided to answer the Pharisees, who were always trying to trick him,  except when there were people present who could benefit by his reply.
I thought it was a neat point.
To add to what you said so well: we have a saying in my language....literally translated it means :  the clever one is trapped by his own cleverness. 
 
 
 
 

Unfortunately one of the girls killed in Finland was one of our sisters. https://www.jw.org/en/news/#newsAlerts

@bruceq alerted me to the Alexa.com site, which I had never seen before. it rates websites for traffic.
As the persecution of our brothers in Russia is gathering steam, the worldwide ranking of jw.org shoots up from #1200 to #800 -  in the span of just three months.  People worldwide hear the charge that the website is extremist. They visit to see whether that is so. Of course, they discover that it is not.    https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jw.org
The Russian authorities are doing kingdom interests a great favor. It is a 21st century adaptation of Acts 8:1&4: Villains succeed in shutting down the good news locally. But not without much publicity, which ultimately intensifies the witness. In time, the kingdom message spills right back into where it was banned in the first place - stronger than before. 

Unfortunately one of the girls killed in Finland was one of our sisters. https://www.jw.org/en/news/#newsAlerts

Why am I not more like good @Araunawith his spot-on definitions of knowledge and wisdom? Is he not on track with how Jesus reasons?
Jesus speaks a lot in the gospels, yet very little of what he says would satisfy today's disciples of argument and reason. He spins complex parables which he rarely explains. He diverts from hostile questions by asking counterquestions. He even goes for ad hominem attacks, though, as someone here mentioned, he always connects the attack with the reason, so it is more like character cross-examination in court. Nowhere does he patiently thrash out matters with his opponents. He speaks things for the heart to figure out.
Increasingly, I think he (and Jehovah) do it on purpose, so that those too carried away with Western-style argumentation and proving themselves right will argue themselves right off the deck of the ship before it reaches Port Newsystem.

I believe the true faith is a minority. Therefore its beliefs would not be shared by the majority such as Christendom in regards to the subjects under consideration. And I believe, as Jehovah's Witnesses also believe, that correct interpretation from God come from the "Faithful Slave" not from some bloggers on an internet site. 
To learn more of what we "really" believe instead of Christendoms propaganda as presented by a blogger look at JW.ORG for the truth about 1914 that Jehovah has given his people at the "proper" time for that teaching. Mt. 24:45.

The foundation you gave for your question indicates that you missed the point about special definitions. You have mixed up  interpretations with definitions. What this topic was about was how using unlikely definitions of certain words has contributed to the interpretation. 
Here's an example. Suppose you tell me the following phrase, which I just picked from one of your posts in this thread:
This is a sentiment that should be easy to understand, and it's one I agree with whole-heartedly. But let's say that I start using the least likely meanings of the words you used, and it becomes the basis of a completely different interpretation. For example:
Bruceq refers to the sins of Babylon the Great, which obviously refers to the current problems of the city council in the town of Babylon, New York. And we know that just as in the expression "Greater Boston area" ( Greater Boston - Wikipedia ) this refers to not just the area within the city limits of Babylon, New York, but the other suburban areas that come under the jurisdiction of the "Town of Babylon."
Bruceq says he wants to share in the mistakes of Jehovah's people. Well, we know that Jehovah's people were the Jews in the Hebrew Scriptures, and so what were those mistakes he wants to share in?
(1 Corinthians 10:6-11) 6 Now these things became our examples, for us not to be persons desiring injurious things, even as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time.” 8 Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication, only to fall, twenty-three thousand [of them] in one day. 9 Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put [him] to the test, only to perish by the serpents. 10 Neither be murmurers, just as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. 11 Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.
Even less likely, I could assume that you were referring specifically, to the idea of perishing by serpents, which I highlighted above. So I therefore interpret your phrase to mean the following:
"But I would rather perish by serpents than join the Town Council of the town of Babylon, New York."
And I could even defend my special interpretation by pointing out that the "correct" interpretation must always be the least likely because persons in Christendom would have more likely understood it to mean exactly what you intended. Obviously, what most people thought you meant must be wrong, because people in Christendom would agree with it.
Similarly, we have formed the foundation of the invisible parousia interpretation by accepting the least likely meanings of words and terms like "lightning" "shine" "observableness" "parousia" "synteleia" "sign" "generation" "appointed times of the nations." The most important of these special interpretations were inherited from the "private interpretations" of Nelson Barbour. And they therefore came to us as long-standing traditions that started back around 1875. 

Several literal renderings went out the window, and I miss them. I see why they had to go - for the sake of clarification, especially to cultures not attuned to Hebrew thinking, but I miss them nonetheless.
No longer do the grousers grouse that God's way is 'not adjusted right' and Jehovah turns the tables on them by asking 'is not your way not adjusted right?' Now they simply call each other 'wrong.' (Ezekiel 33)
No longer do faces sharpen one another. That's too bad. There are faces here that you could shave with.
Yikes! Alexa declines to even rate my website - tomsheepandgoats who? it says. I have to register. To be sure, I would have been blown away had I appeared in the top 10,000,000. But I did't think they would deign to acknowledge it's existence. Surely they are in cahoots with @The Librarian
 

I and Jehovah's Witnessses believe that Satan is misleading the entire earth including the religious element. There is a reason for the widespread beliefs that are false and are in the majority. {I included those as examples] Of course the majority including us believe in the ransom but as you should know it is not the same now is it? Since they believe he was not fully man corresponding to Adam... Yes I have many different Bible Translations in my official library many with wording similar to the 2013 edition of the NWT : THEOCRATIC HERITAGE LIBRARY BOOK STORE AND DIVINE NAME MUSEUM DISPLAYS -.http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html  . But Jehovah is ONE and there is only one true religion despite being 40,000 Christian sects on Earth but Jehovah does not use them to preach the good news of the KINGDOM. https://www.jw.org/en/; https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jw.org
You know the saying,  truth is truth no matter who says it: Yes Satan did tell the truth to Jesus now didnt he.  And since he is the god of this world then his minions, who are everywhere including here on the internet, can also tell the truth. But that is not all there is to it now is it .  Satan often presents a truth in such a way to persuade one to believe in a lie as some here do as well being an angel of light or an "insider" of JW theology !!!Mt 7, 2 Cor. 11:14;  {WT 01 8/1 "Your Right to Believe".} https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=truth
Jesus said "by their fruits "you would recognize both true and false. Not by teachings of chronology. Ask yourself why believe a blogger from the internet who you do not even know whos fruits are of a haughty nature with very long posts and thinks he has "inside" info into the Organization yet is just an internet blogger with no way to verify anything, why he could be a predator apostate there is no way of knowing except by their fruits, does he strengthen or weaken your faith with critical words against Jehovah's people as Korah and his 250 followers did?.

My sister (who is not a Witness) painted a beautiful painting of all the vices on earth.   And there was a very thick book on the table......   I asked her what it meant...... and she said to me:  "knowledge is a gross sin when it is idolatrous - when knowledge is self-serving."   I totally agreed.
Knowledge (as I said before) is an ego-trip when it does not serve others.  One makes yourself an idol.  The bible says: "knowledge puffs up."   Knowledge in itself puffs up..... it must be combined with the fruitages of the Spirit to produce humility, modesty and the other qualities one needs to truly be benevolent and motivate one to serve others, such as preaching!
Wisdom - is knowledge put to use to serve others and benefit others.   Jehovah in all his knowledge uses this only to benefit others.  Jesus, kept his own opinions to himself and used his wisdom to benefit others .....and only spoke the words which Jehovah gave him to speak.... Perfect obedience - not like humans who like to be on the forefront of knowledge....me included.....  I have to pummel myself and stamp out that ego sometimes.
All this bla-bla about being sophisticated and discuss all matters like intelligent adults, is just a front to self-serve personal ideas and create doubt or division among brothers.   Other churches who visit this website are doing so - not because they want to learn something - but merely to sow doubt......They oppose the slave and their ideas.  They do not care if their ideas are only from one person  - in contrast with our organization which now has committees which approve what goes into every publication.. They are pretending to be angels of light....or maybe believe themselves zealots with 'special insights' from God?
Even if you offer biblical scriptures or even good secular sources - forget it- they are here to teach - not to learn!  They are here with other motives! The thrill is in the fight... or to sow doubt! 
 
By the way - all these terrorist attacks is an escalation - intensifying of the sign.  'Security' of citizens will again be the main subject on lawgiver's minds until the next strikes - I think ...... lol.....  
Russia, Finland, USA, Spain all in a matter of a few days....
 
 
 
 

I and Jehovah's Witnessses believe that Satan is misleading the entire earth including the religious element. There is a reason for the widespread beliefs that are false and are in the majority. {I included those as examples] Of course the majority including us believe in the ransom but as you should know it is not the same now is it? Since they believe he was not fully man corresponding to Adam... Yes I have many different Bible Translations in my official library many with wording similar to the 2013 edition of the NWT : THEOCRATIC HERITAGE LIBRARY BOOK STORE AND DIVINE NAME MUSEUM DISPLAYS -.http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html  . But Jehovah is ONE and there is only one true religion despite being 40,000 Christian sects on Earth but Jehovah does not use them to preach the good news of the KINGDOM. https://www.jw.org/en/; https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jw.org
You know the saying,  truth is truth no matter who says it: Yes Satan did tell the truth to Jesus now didnt he.  And since he is the god of this world then his minions, who are everywhere including here on the internet, can also tell the truth. But that is not all there is to it now is it .  Satan often presents a truth in such a way to persuade one to believe in a lie as some here do as well being an angel of light or an "insider" of JW theology !!!Mt 7, 2 Cor. 11:14;  {WT 01 8/1 "Your Right to Believe".} https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=truth
Jesus said "by their fruits "you would recognize both true and false. Not by teachings of chronology. Ask yourself why believe a blogger from the internet who you do not even know whos fruits are of a haughty nature with very long posts and thinks he has "inside" info into the Organization yet is just an internet blogger with no way to verify anything, why he could be a predator apostate there is no way of knowing except by their fruits, does he strengthen or weaken your faith with critical words against Jehovah's people as Korah and his 250 followers did?.

Agreed.  "and the people began to fear Jehovah and to put faith in Jehovah AND in his servant Moses". And we know the "rest of the story" of how some were stumbled because of not having respect and loyalty to Jehovah AND the one "taking the lead". "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you+and be submissive" Heb. 13:17. Trust that Jehovah has his organization in complete control like the Celestial Chariot in Ezekiel.
No need to be argumentative. Jesus exposed false teachings and those who promoted them calling them "hypocrites and offspring of vipers". Mt 23. Therefore I have the right to expose those here who likewise are disloyal to Jehovah's Organization, who claim to be brothers yet are very critical and not loyal to the FDS and the current teachings of revealed truths about 1914. So why attack ones who defend the truth as Jesus did?
"So how did that feel?"  Great because:
Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is NO stumbling block.”—PSALM 119:165.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20130315/loving-jehovah-no-stumbling-block/
   agape, Bruce

We only "reject" if the Governing Body tells us so not some blogger on the internet who thinks they are a spirit-anointed channel of interpretation to the rest of us. LOL. This has already been explained and Daniel said it was hidden until the end. Dan. 12:4.  For further info see JW.ORG not some bloggers LOL You guys are hilarious. Bloggers good grief.   If the Faithful slave says it is so then it is so why should mice tell Jehovah what is true or false. 
I suppose if you and insider were Israelites leaving Egypt you would "complain" about why are we going in the wrong direction. The Chariot goes in the direction Jehovah wants even if we think it is right or wrong.  Look at least try and look at the big picture regarding Loyalty to Jehovah's Organization and its teachings. It is not rocket science really.
Unless of course you two are not really Jehovah's Witnesses then I completely understand. If so please answer the following question:
 Since you believe more in Christendom's chronology against 1914 rather than JW's please inform us if you also celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th? 
 
The BibleÂ’s answer about 1914 and the Tree Dream
Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.
Overview of the prophecy. God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.—Daniel 4:1, 10-16.
The prophecy’s initial fulfillment. The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:20-22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.—Daniel 4:34-36.
Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”—Daniel 2:31-44.
Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:30-33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.—Matthew 11:29.
What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent? In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.
What does the tree’s being chopped down mean? Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.—1 Chronicles 29:23.
What do the “seven times” represent? The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *—2 Kings 25:1, 8-10.
How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.
The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6,14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
You see the Truth is simple not from a "blogger" on some internet site. LOL  https://www.jw.org/en/

Agreed.  "and the people began to fear Jehovah and to put faith in Jehovah AND in his servant Moses". And we know the "rest of the story" of how some were stumbled because of not having respect and loyalty to Jehovah AND the one "taking the lead". "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you+and be submissive" Heb. 13:17. Trust that Jehovah has his organization in complete control like the Celestial Chariot in Ezekiel.
No need to be argumentative. Jesus exposed false teachings and those who promoted them calling them "hypocrites and offspring of vipers". Mt 23. Therefore I have the right to expose those here who likewise are disloyal to Jehovah's Organization, who claim to be brothers yet are very critical and not loyal to the FDS and the current teachings of revealed truths about 1914. So why attack ones who defend the truth as Jesus did?
"So how did that feel?"  Great because:
Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is NO stumbling block.”—PSALM 119:165.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20130315/loving-jehovah-no-stumbling-block/
   agape, Bruce

I believe the true faith is a minority. Therefore its beliefs would not be shared by the majority such as Christendom in regards to the subjects under consideration. And I believe, as Jehovah's Witnesses also believe, that correct interpretation from God come from the "Faithful Slave" not from some bloggers on an internet site. 
To learn more of what we "really" believe instead of Christendoms propaganda as presented by a blogger look at JW.ORG for the truth about 1914 that Jehovah has given his people at the "proper" time for that teaching. Mt. 24:45.

We only "reject" if the Governing Body tells us so not some blogger on the internet who thinks they are a spirit-anointed channel of interpretation to the rest of us. LOL. This has already been explained and Daniel said it was hidden until the end. Dan. 12:4.  For further info see JW.ORG not some bloggers LOL You guys are hilarious. Bloggers good grief.   If the Faithful slave says it is so then it is so why should mice tell Jehovah what is true or false. 
I suppose if you and insider were Israelites leaving Egypt you would "complain" about why are we going in the wrong direction. The Chariot goes in the direction Jehovah wants even if we think it is right or wrong.  Look at least try and look at the big picture regarding Loyalty to Jehovah's Organization and its teachings. It is not rocket science really.
Unless of course you two are not really Jehovah's Witnesses then I completely understand. If so please answer the following question:
 Since you believe more in Christendom's chronology against 1914 rather than JW's please inform us if you also celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th? 
 
The BibleÂ’s answer about 1914 and the Tree Dream
Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.
Overview of the prophecy. God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.—Daniel 4:1, 10-16.
The prophecy’s initial fulfillment. The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:20-22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.—Daniel 4:34-36.
Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”—Daniel 2:31-44.
Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:30-33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.—Matthew 11:29.
What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent? In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.
What does the tree’s being chopped down mean? Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.—1 Chronicles 29:23.
What do the “seven times” represent? The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *—2 Kings 25:1, 8-10.
How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.
The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6,14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
You see the Truth is simple not from a "blogger" on some internet site. LOL  https://www.jw.org/en/

Exactly! That's even better!
I know we've discussed the other points here already under their own topic heading.

Perhaps I should not say this, but this discussion does not bother me. Nor does it do damage to the cause, even if Ms. Violin appears to hope it will. Historically, many have peered intensely into these things. They still are. It is nothing new that they do it here.
The big fat books we used to study, when explaining some teaching, would preface their remarks with: "it does not mean this' and 'it does not mean that." 'Why do they say what it does not mean?' the Circuit Overseer asked. 'Why don't they just say what it does mean?' It was for the sake of the old-timers, who were being called upon to unravel understandings they once had. Understandings come and go. I'll take the GB's current version because they have some tangible apparatus to show that what they spin has been blessed by God. God's spirit has moved countless volunteers to do things that they do nowhere else. I'm actually a little heartened to see some discuss at length things like this because "it ain't me, babe." I don't feel threatened by it. Let them quibble chronology till the cows come home and hope they are not missing the facts on the ground @Araunaspeaks of, for that is where the real proof of is - faith expressed in practical ways that no one else has gotten around to doing. This stuff is icing on the cake with innumerable variables arguable many ways.
Listen, I'm smart (if you are not fussy) yet this all goes over my head. It will do the same to everyone. Not so if I took hours to review and digest it, but I don't - the real truth is supported by deeds, and if there are no supporting deeds, then it is mere academic air and no one ought to get too worked up over it. Let the ones who have made it a special interest carry on with discussion. For personal reasons, there are a few non-spiritual subjects I know in considerable detail. Why should I object that some have made this theirs? I'll just interrupt here and there to insult @The Librarian.(the meddlesome hen)

In Daniel 4, Daniel said he did know the interpretation of the dream and gave it to the king. Do you not believe him?
'Times' (iddan) do not necessarily mean years. Cp. Dan. 2:8; 3:5, 15; 7:12. But why could these 'times' not be merely contemporaneous with the historical period? Is there a Scriptural basis for concluding otherwise?
Jesus indicated nothing about the '7 times' and made no link with Dan. 4.
'It must be the same.' A mere assertion. Where in Scripture has this conclusion sprung from? Besides, Jesus was speaking in the future tense  - "will be trampled" - i.e. at the time he spoke, what he had in mind hadn't happened yet.
Whoa. We have several knight-jump eisegetical leaps, there. Where is the Scriptural link between the '7 times' of Daniel 4, which Daniel specifically applied to the period of Nebuchadnezzar's madness, and Revelation's '3.5 times' relating to an entirely different apocalyptic vision given about 5 centuries later? And then a random 'day-for-a-year' formula lobbed into the interpretive cauldron - where in Daniel does it say we have to use this for the tree dream?
So to recap:
Daniel knew the interpretation of the tree dream - it wasn't sealed information 'Times' may not mean 'years' anyway, given the word's other usage within the book of Daniel There is no Scriptural prophetic connection between Luke 21:24 and Dan. 4 There is no Scriptural basis for applying some 'day-for-a-year' formula to Dan. 4 And to add to that, the Org has dispensed with typologies that are not explicit in Scripture!
"Where the Scriptures teach that an individual, an event, or an object is typical of something else, we accept it as such. Otherwise, we ought to be reluctant to assign an antitypical application to a certain person or account if there is no specific Scriptural basis for doing so." - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015204
Therefore, as no specific Scriptural basis can be found for interpreting the 'immense tree' in Nebuchadnezzar's dream as the antitype for God's rulership, then we should rightly reject such an application.
 

All I see is JW.org's unsubstantiated assertions that there is a second fullfillment. So please, highlight the relevant part that gives Scriptural basis.