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JW Insider

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  1. If anyone got through all that reading, they surely won't mind indulging me in a little story about a girl who had trouble sleeping, so she kept a "sleep diary" for a few months. I think that a few here will already understand it even before I begin: It's 2021. Sally is grown now, about 40 years old, born in 1980, and had already moved out of her parents' house 10 years earlier. But her mother finds the diary while cleaning the basement, and reads a few of the entries: Sally's Sleep Diary. Age 16. Monday, January 8. Got up at 2 am. Cold. Saw one of those circular halos around t
  2. I hope no one got the impression that I wrote all that much in these last few posts. Most of this page is just quotes from others and a few lines with my comments interspersed.
  3. Pekka Mansikka is not Furuli. But several of his arguments align with Furuli, and he references Furuli as a source. The arguments inherited from Furuli should be honestly evaluated before anyone takes them seriously. The author(s) at vat4956.com have paraphrased Furuli's arguments, and, most unfortunately, so did the Watchtower artilcle mentioned above: *** w11 11/1 p. 28 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two *** 11. Astronomical Diaries and Related Texts From Babylonia, Volume V, edited by Hermann Hunger, published 2001, pages 2-3.
  4. Because the entire review by Hunger is a bit hard to find unless one uses the "Wayback Machine" at archive.internet.com.
      Hello guest!
    Here is the entire review of Furuli's book by Hermann Hunger. The remainder of this post is the full review: --------- Furuli, Rolf J., Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian
  5. The following is the excerpted review of Furuli's book by Hunger in Archiv für Orientforschung (AfO). The remainder of this post contains the review: --------------- Review Reviewed Work(s): Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptian, and Persian Chronology Compared with the Chronology of the Bible, Volume II: Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian Chronology by Rolf J. Furuli Review by: Hermann Hunger Source: Archiv für Orientforschung , 2011, Bd. 52 (2011), pp. 384-385 Published by: Archiv für Orientforschung (AfO)/Institut für Orientalistik Rolf J. Furuli, Assyrian, B
  6. I don't think I should skip any of this next section of PM's "Eclipse" book either because it's about the VAT 4956, an excellent piece of archaeological evidence which many Witnesses have tried to make "infamous." 1. Clay tablet VAT 4956 The first line of this clay tablet says of its date: “In the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.”2 Scholars have applied the information in this clay tablet to 568 BC.3 It has been perhaps the prisoner’s justification for the present ancient chronology. However, it has major shortcomings. It is a pleasure now to present new researched informatio
  7. Let's cover the entire Preface of the eclipses book. Lookout to Ancient Eclipses. To review this book for its relevance to the Neo-Babylonian period (N-B), I'm probably going to use some shorthand now and then for repeated names, words and phrases. PM for Pekka Mansikka, the author. NEB for Nebuchadnezzar and NEB ACC for Nebuchadnezzar's accession year (sometimes NEB 0), and NEB 1 through NEB 43, for his official years of reign. The business/contract tablets will be shorted to "biz docs," and if referring to the dates on them I will use "biz dates." Neo-Babylon
  8. Pekka Mansikka has included the following in a recent email: Did you read the book Lookout to ancient eclipses?Ps. Note: "NCUSE, Volume II" is my a translation error. The same book is Volume II of the Finnish Department. In the English-language department, it is Volume III. Sorry ; ) I don't know if Mansikka picked up on the fact that these are "Editions," not "Volumes." "Cesar Chavez" already alluded to the fact that COJ used the term correctly by calling his different updates, "editions." But Mansikka's point, above, is that "Volume [edition] II" (2020, Finnish) is the same as "Vo
  9. LOL! Indeed. You don't think I tried to do the same thing for many years that Pekka Mansikka, Carl Olof Jonsson, and Rolf Furuli and others have tried to do? I'm sure we've all hoped there was a way that 607 might just still work because that would be such good evidence that we could show others about Jehovah's guidance. No matter what evidence he finds, Pekka Mansikka's new proposals must always promote the same 20-year discrepancy found in the WTS publications. Where do you think he got the idea from? Did you really think that some random researcher just happened to reach a conclu
  10. Back when salesman jokes were in vogue (September 1936 issue) the following was somehow considered a good one: Worried pencil-selling business partner: We buy these pencils for 3 cents and sell them for 2 cents. We're losing money on every sale! How are we ever going to make a profit? Reassuring pencil-selling business parter: Volume!!* * Alternative: "We'll make it up in volume!"
  11. I caught on that you were being feces-tious about the plopping missiles. But I must say that I have no idea what is going on with this re-gendered rejoinder.
  12. That wasn't Charles Schwab. It was Klaus Schwab: World-renowned economist Klaus Schwab, Founder and Executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum Charles Robert Schwab is an American investor and financial executive. He is the founder and chairman of the Charles Schwab Corporation. He pioneered discount sales of equity securities starting in 1975. His company became by far the largest discount securities dealer in the United States.
  13. Pekka Mansikka said: Yes, under some possible circumstances, but not necessarily. And of course, my point was not about Old Babylon and Assyria, but New-Babylon and Assyria. Which I see that you understand when you say: That statement is correct. And here's why I claimed what I did. You don't even have to go back to Assyria, you can even compare two kings of the same nation and era. Let's say my only interest is when Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year landed in "BCE" time. Now, just to simplify, let's say you can show strong evidence that Nabopolassar, Nebuchadnezzar's fat
  14. To be fair to Pekka Mansikka I would like to deal with his objections as they come up. I will quote him from his most recent communication: In the forum I wrote: "We could stipulate that all Assyrian history is wrong, and it would not effect the accuracy of the Neo-Babylonian period.". Pekka wrote: ". . . but I slightly disagree " links:
  15. And this is more funny. True. It's OK for a scholar to depend on his own prior work, especially if that work has been reviewed and has withstood criticism. But this entire chapter was only sourced from his own previous works. Even works containing ideas he currently rejects. Here are the sources for this entire section: And the only exception is where he quoted the Bible in footnote #4. And here he rejects the INSIGHT book which identifies Pul as Tiglath-Pileser III.
  16. And from 1360 BCE, Mansikka finally jumps over to the reign of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, the Nebuchadnezzar II of Biblical fame: Date of Nebuchadnezzar II's reign In a more recent phase of the investigation, in the winter of 2020, progress was made in examining Babylonia’s business documents. The first of these was to identify overlaps during the reigns of Nebuchadnezzar II, Amel-Marduk, and Neriglissar, kings of Babylon.6 Since it is unlikely that they would have ruled in part at the same time, it was also simple to conclude that the beginning of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar II must
  17. Mansikka's next point will go without much comment at all. It's about an eclipse from around 1360 BCE that somehow supports 809 vs 763 BCE and 809 vs 791 BCE. The difference is as much as 570 years here, more than half a millennium! Finding the solar eclipse of Mursili II In July 2018, the solar eclipse scheduled for the 10th year of Mursili II's rule could be attributed to July 1360 BC. This finding was influenced by the information found in the Amarna letters that Suppiluliium I, the predecessor of Mursili II, died fairly soon after the death of an unnamed pharaoh.5 The relegation of Mu
  18. Mansikka next goes on to discuss (in a few sentences) the reign of Pul and Tiglath-Pileser as it relates to King Menahem of Israel. King Pul of Assyria When the year 809 BC was applied Ashur-Dan III’s reign, it also paved the way for a new interpretation of the reigns of the Assyrian kings in the 7th century BC. The history of Israel tells of this activity of Pul, the king of Assyria in question: “King Pul of Assyria came to the land, and Menahem gave Pul 1000 talents of silver. . . . And Menahem gathered silver out of Israel. . . and gave it to the king of Assyria.”4 As
  19. The rest of this might be boring 😊 but just to be thorough, we should look at the rest of his book: We left off above on page 9, where Mansikka reviews his own studies that would put a solar eclipse dated to the 9th year of Ashur-Dan on June 809 BCE instead of June 763 BCE. The timing of this eclipse opened the door to a considerable extension of the chronology also on an archaeological basis and not solely on the basis of Israeli history. Somehow, he thinks that identifying an eclipse usually associated with 763 but which could have referred to one 46 years earlier will change
  20. One of the most obvious examples of circular reasoning shown by Pekka Mansikka is this: Mansikka claims that this otherwise unknown entity, "Neb. V" must have really existed and reigned for nearly 20 years. So we ask of Mansikka: But if he really existed, then why does all the evidence point away from the existence of this otherwise unknown king? What about all that eclipse evidence that shows that no king named Neb existed at this time? Mansikka answers, that it must still be true, because we can't trust their own evidence, because they didn't know about "Neb. V." I kn
  21. I think I see what you are saying. That if Jehovah thought it was important for us to know for sure that we were supposed to start this date counting of "7 times," and turn those 7 times into 2,520 years from 607 BCE, then Jehovah would have given us exactly enough information to count back from the first year Cyrus, and forward from the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar without guessing. And 2 Tim 3:16 would have been changed to say: All scripture is inspired of God . . . that the man of God may be almost fully equipped, so that all he will still need is a working knowledge of how Greek O
  22. His next paragraph starts out as follows: Assyrian solar eclipse Already at the beginning of this study, in January 2017, it was clear that in June 763 BC. the solar eclipse could not reconcile the history of Assyria with the 9th year of Ashur-Dan III’s reign. The reason for this was its blatant contradiction with the history of Israel. Based on this, it was easy to start looking for that eclipse at other times. Thus, it could be stated at the outset of the investigation that there were only two other options. Of these, 13th June 809 BCE seemed more probable a solar eclipse occ
  23. SInce the last book Mansikka asked me to look at was his work about "Nebuchadnezzar V" I will look closely at that first. He has also just sent me an email asking to especially look at the book "Lookout to Ancient Eclipses" especially chapter 5. First Nebuchadnezzar V. It opens up with these words: Introduction Who was Nebuchadnezzar V, king of Babylon, who ruled in the 570s and 560s BC? This dissertation publishes this new king, who has been unknown for more than 2,300 years. The dissertation sets out the rationale for the time he ruled and what evidence is there that he used
  24. He started to, but I think he realizes there is trouble in the details for him. His explanations are very "light." I think he does care. He discusses the other countries, but with the same lack of detail during the Neo-Babylonian period. I plan to discuss before giving all my biases. I invited him to join, because he might be able to give answers that the book doesn't give. Or updates. My last email to him: Hello again, Thanks for visiting the discussion forum. You are, of course, welcome to join in the discussion. They can get quite lively on this and related topics.
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