DeeDee

35 minutes ago, Cos said:

49 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

To think that there are spiritually-minded people who follow Jesus as strictly as if they were there in his presence, is NOT ridiculous. 

Ms DeeDee,

 

The ridicules part is 1900 years gap in-between when this supposedly happened! <><

People can come to know the true God and his son TODAY (more than 1900 year gap). And they can be as loyal and faithful as the first apostles. No one can judge that too much time has passed since Jesus was here.

And Jesus said at Matt. 19:26 - “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

34 minutes ago, Cos said:

Jesus’ use of the word “greater” points to the Father being higher in position only.

Yes, the Father's position is the MOST HIGH. And Jesus said at Matt. 4:10 – Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

32 minutes ago, Cos said:

I didn’t say it was from the Bible.

That is my point...It is written by man... and man is deceived by Satan. Unless the words come from the Bible, to me they are not valid.

29 minutes ago, Cos said:

Well you are no longer “a pagan” as you say so that oath is null and void. <><

Jesus would disagree with you...My word must be good for all time, not just for while it is convenient for me ["yes" means yes].

49 minutes ago, Cos said:

3 hours ago, DeeDee said:

 I only meant that the JW's are the "spiritual" continuation of the first disciples.

Ms DeeDee,

 

With a gap of some 1900 years in-between...come on that’s just plain ridiculous. <><

To think that there is a written record of the "physical" continuation from the first disciples would be ridiculous.

To think that there are spiritually-minded people who follow Jesus as strictly as if they were there in his presence, is NOT ridiculous. It is a FACT, and JW's are an example of people who follow the teachings of Jesus that way [example: my 'Yes' means yes].

3 minutes ago, Cos said:

Ms DeeDee,

 

Maybe you have been fed false information or you made this all up?

No, I took an oath when I was initiated as a pagan to not share certain information with those who are uninitiated. Since you are not initiated, I cannot share that information with you. And in keeping Jesus' commandment, "Let your word 'Yes' mean yes," I cannot go against any oath I take. I am firm in ALWAYS letting my 'Yes' mean 'yes.'

2 hours ago, Cos said:

I finish off here with a quote from Ignatius AD 30 - 107;

 

“... but into three possessed of equal honor.”(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philippians, chapter 2). <><

This is not a quote from the Bible. Here is what Jesus said in the Bible:

John 14:28 - You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

2 hours ago, Cos said:

Which “pagan gods and goddess” were these? <><

I am sorry, but I am not permitted to tell you.

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

9 hours ago, DeeDee said:

They are a continuation of the first disciples. They were the ones who did not follow the false teachings that were being promoted by some of the early followers. In earlier times, they were simply referred to as the Bible Students. In 1931 they adopted the name "Jehovah's Witnesses." This name was derived from a number of Scriptures.

You need to prove such claims,

In apostle Paul's day, there were already false teachers. The faithful disciples would only teach the truth in order to protect the valuable truth.  Thousands of people became baptized followers of Jesus. It would seem illogical to believe that not one of them or their descendants continued to be true followers of Jesus.

However, I did not mean to make it seem that the JW's are the "physical" continuation of the first disciples. I am sorry if that is how my words were interpreted. I only meant that the JW's are the "spiritual" continuation of the first disciples.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

With the end of first congregations, i think that we have no  reports to confirm CONTINUATION you mentioned. And WT magazines also not writing about any continuation, just mentions about these or that small groups that was in some sort of opposition to beliefs of Catholic church.

Yes, I'm sure there is no confirmation of any continuation.

Records were not kept to PROVE continuation...

In the same way, I don't know who are the parents of my grandparents in my own family.

But that does not stop people (once called Bible Students) from freely choosing to become followers of Jesus' teachings by obeying all of his commandments.

I am not saying that they are a "physical" continuation.

Rather, they are a "spiritual" continuation.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

There was a lot of talk in December of Christmas not being a Christian holiday, even by opponents of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Yes, the "light" is definitely growing "brighter and brighter" as we near the end of this system. (Prov. 4:18)

24 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

22 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

How would one perceive to know that lightning occurred according to the scripture I quoted? 

Note that this Scripture is pointing out that the light "shines as far as the west."

If you are facing east, then you can see the actual lightning bolt as it is striking.

However, if you are facing west, then you CANNOT SEE the bolt of lightning...all you see is the EFFECT of the lightning.

So, in the same way, you CANNOT SEE Jesus, but you can see the effect of his coming.

40 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

right there you just made my point, the first line you wrote. if they needed to change, then they DID NOT continue what the disciples started. You cannot claim they are a continuation and at the same time claim they deviated. Unless you believe that the first disciples got it wrong too. 

Yes, absolutely! All of mankind is imperfect! and as I said, they did not have the access to all Scriptures that we have today.

When the first disciples were following Jesus, they did not have the Scriptures which now make up what some call the New Testament. So, as Jesus' followers were able to read and analyze the Scriptures better, their understanding of God's will and nature as a loving God grew clearer. Thus, the changes!

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

How do you look at this in light of scripture, specifically Romans 14:5&6 and Colossians 2:16? 

The TRUTH is just the truth...It is not a judgment of others.

The Bible says that shepherds were in the fields at night with their flocks on the night that Jesus was born.

This is not a judgment of anyone...It is just a fact that this proves he was NOT born on December 25.

The reason that December 25 was chosen was to convert the pagans.

The pagans had a major festival celebration (at least a week long) for the "birth of the SUN."

So, the newly forming Christendom Church chose that same time period for the "birth of the SON."

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3 hours ago, DeeDee said:

The truths below do NOT change...

Bible have much  more verses :))) 

YES!!! There are SO MANY wonderful verses that tell us of the gifts God will give us or has given us.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

also exist many other who doing same or similar :)))

Who else is doing it to the extent that Jesus commanded?

Matt. 24:14 - And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Here is another:

Matthew 24:24-27  "For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

Clearly here we are told that there will come some who proclaim that Jesus returned and you just didn't see Him, because He came invisibly. That just isn't true and doesn't line up with the Bible which clearly states His return WILL be visible. 

The Scriptures say that he will come "on," "in," or "with" the clouds.

If he were "on" a cloud, the cloud would block our view of him.

If he were "in" a cloud, the same is true.

If he were "with" the clouds, then it would also seem to be the same result.

In any of these cases, he would be invisible to man's "physical" view.

He is seen by the signs that he gave at Matt. 24.

He is seen with the eyes of faith, not the "physical" eyes.

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

4 hours ago, DeeDee said:

There is no mention of any groups in the Bible since there were only the new followers of Jesus' teachings. These followers of Jesus became his "disciples."

Then why did you claim that there was? Here is your quote:

5 hours ago, DeeDee said:

No, I was not "told" this from "the men who run the wt." The evidence/proof is in the Scriptures themselves. I have read those Scriptures every time I read the entire Bible. The meaning of those words is not changeable, even if the actual words do change. The Bible's message DOES NOT CHANGE.

I do not see what you are claiming...

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

4 hours ago, DeeDee said:

When JW's realized that they were practicing false religion, they stopped. This is a reflection of Prov. 4:18.

but this admittance proves that they were NOT a continuation of the disciples as you claim. If they were then they would not have deviated, unless of course they were led by a power not from God. 

No, there is no PROOF that they were NOT a continuation of the disciples because they would recognize the need to change.

The Bible's words provide the PROOF of a true follower of Jesus.

1. Yes, Satan is blinding and deceiving people on a full-time basis.

2. Today, we have very fast and easy access to the entire Bible's contents. But this was not the case in the first century. Remember, they were reading off of scrolls. So it would take much more time to analyze a writing from Isaiah or Daniel or Genesis, etc. with what was just being written, or had not even been written yet (Revelation). And, the printing press was not invented until the Fifteenth Century.

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

in particular future time

The truths below do NOT change...

The new teachings do not change the Bible's Message (the Good News):

Ps. 37:39 - The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

Ps. 37:34 - Hope in Jehovah and follow his way,

And he will exalt you to take possession of the earth.

When the wicked are done away with, you will see it.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you want to believe that Jesus inspired him to give such corporative start of/to His Church, His Body??

Perhaps... or maybe God's holy spirit caused him to move into action to form the organization.

Note that God is now using this organization to accomplish his will on earth.

The organization's official website can be accessed in hundreds of languages: https://www.jw.org

Matt. 24:14 - And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

they using big letter B and G - Governing Body. WHY? 

My thought is that it just makes it clearer to read as a single entity.

This is because when you see the words Governing Body in a sentence (like here) it is read as ONE thing not TWO.

Here are a few more Scriptures that prove how to tell false prophets from true followers of Jesus:

Jesus said at Matt. 7:13-23 -

¹³ “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; ¹⁴ whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

¹⁵ “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. ¹⁶ By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? ¹⁷ Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

²¹ “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. ²² Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

More on Christmas:

From the New World Translation (Study Edition):

Winter in Bethlehem

Jesus could not have been born in December because the weather in Bethlehem is typically cold and rainy from November to March. In winter, snow may fall in this region. During this time of the year, shepherds would not be living out of doors, keeping watch over their flocks in the fields at night. (Lu 2:8) Bethlehem is located some 780 m (2,550 ft) above sea level in the Judean highlands.

Related Scripture(s):

Mt 2:1; Lu 2:4, 6

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

but it is a practice that the jws/bible students participated in prior to 1935 or so. So what this means is, your claim  "they are the ones who did not follow the false teachings........" cannot be true based on your ideas of what is false teachings.

When JW's realized that they were practicing false religion, they stopped. This is a reflection of Prov. 4:18.

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

There is no mention of jws/bible students, as the groups we know today/last century,  in the Bible. So your claim that they are the continuation of the disciples, is false unless you can provide proof otherwise. 

There is no mention of any groups in the Bible since there were only the new followers of Jesus' teachings. These followers of Jesus became his "disciples."

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

You need to prove such claims

Actually, it is not man but the Bible that proves "such claims."

JW's follow all of the commandments of Jesus, so are Jesus' "followers," not Jesus "worshippers."

At Matt. 22:37-40 Jesus commanded:

“‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’

³⁸ This is the greatest and first commandment.

³⁹ The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’

⁴⁰ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

At Matt. 28:19, 20 Jesus commanded:

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, ²⁰ teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

At John 13:34, 35 Jesus commanded:

              I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another;

              just as I have loved you, you also love one another.

                     ³⁵ By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

This is just three Scriptural "Proofs" that JW's are the followers of Jesus.