John 12.24to28

Story time Once upon a time, a father had to go on a work trip. He left the kids with a trusted acquaintance. While the father was away, the acquaintance corrupted himself and started to abuse the children. The acquaintance built a studio out back thinking the father would be so happy he wouldn't care about the abuse. What do you think the father did when he returned and found out what happened to the children? Will he care about the new studio? (The "father" is like Jesus. The "kids" are like the congregation members. The "acquaintance" is like those currently taking the lead in the organization.) Once upon a time, a father had twelve children. He went on a work trip. While he was away, the six oldest of the kids presumptuously and incorrectly bragged about how much their father loved them most because they went to fancy schools and only wore fancy clothes. Those kids picked on their younger siblings and drove them out of the home while the father was away. When the father was driving home after the trip, he saw his youngest six kids abandoned and abused and passed out and half starved along the side of the road. What will the father do when he returns home? Will he agree with the conclusions of the six older kids and leave the younger ones for dead? (The "father" is like Jehovah. The "kids" are all humans. The six oldest are like those who think they're better than everyone else and look down on the others. The six youngest are like those who are treated harshly or disrespected and neglected by ones who are fancy in their own eyes.) Once upon a time, a father hired a babysitter while he went away on a work trip. The babysitter told the children if they were naughty she wouldn't talk to them or help them. When the kids went to sleep at night, she had her boyfriend over, and the kids woke up to say "dad said not to do that!" She locked the kids in their room and ignored them. The father came home early unexpectedly, that very night. What will he do to the babysitter? (The "father" is like Jehovah and Jesus. The "babysitter" is like some of those taking the lead in the organization. They have been very, very naughty.) What time is it? It is time for the father to come home. The kids will be taken care of. The naughty ones will be removed. Jesus is going to fix everything. Jehovah knows who His real kids are, and who are fakers. Praise Jehovah.

No time to be a @xero Hero today? No worries. I'll give it a try... "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, before you today we exhibit overwhelming evidence that the great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long. Although the so-called "Faithful and Discreet Slave" says "we don't know how long the great tribulation will be", Jesus has revealed the length of the great tribulation to faithful lowly ones by means of the helper, the holy spirit, just as he foretold. The great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long - it's as clear as day. The indisputable facts are, the current governing body is in the dark as to Jehovah's timetable. All the things written about the lawless one in the scriptures will come true. The governing body is the lawless one who have seated themselves as gods in the House of God. Jesus will remove them at the appointed time. Praise Jehovah."

(Hey, @xero, are you willing to help a sister out? I'm trying to be more organized in what is posted, hence the outline part, but I don't have the gift of making it short or good transitions. I've been working on applying your advice. But if you just want to, I know you can write a really succinct summary of this first post on this thread like you did on the other one. You wrote it so perfectly last time. I would be much obliged. Pleeeeeease?🙏😬)

Bible Verses on Timing and What They Mean I. Three and a half years A. "A time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 7:25) B. "An appointed time, appointed times, and half a time" (Daniel 12:7) C. "The appointed times" (Luke 21:24) D. "A time and times and half a time" (Revelation 12:14) E. "42 months" (Revelation 13:5) II. Days A. "2,300 evenings and mornings" (Daniel 8:14) B. "1,260 days" (Revelation 12:6) C. "1,290 days" (Daniel 12:11) D. "1,335 days" (Daniel 12:12) The Bible shows that the great tribulation will last 3 1/2 years. Daniel 7:25 in context goes through the march of some world powers. The UN is the last beast. (The US/UK breathe life into the UN. The UN is an extension of the US/UK in this vision.) "He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." The UN will oppress Jehovah's people and it will be 3 1/2 years. Daniel 12:7 in context while Russian president (King of North) cornered ("comes all the way to his end and there is no helper for him"), Michael stands up (Jesus finally receives kingdom in heaven) and great tribulation begins. ""How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.”" Jehovah's organization will be "dashed to pieces" and there will be three and a half years. Luke 21:24 context is the time of the end: "...because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled...For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." The appointed times that the UN (the nations) will trample on Jehovah's organization/people will be during the great tribulation. Jesus was talking about during the tribulation. Revelation 12:14 shows what the Devil does after he is finally cast down by Michael: "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent." The "male child" represents the completed sealed anointed, who will rule in the kingdom with Christ. They are like a "child" in that they are still in weak human form, but they are heirs who have conquered since they are now sealed. The Devil harasses them for 3 1/2 years of the tribulation, but the angels help them while in that figurative "wilderness" time. Revelation 13:5 is talking about the UN. "It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation." 42 months is 3 1/2 years. Daniel 8:14 in context shows how the initial part of the persecution leads to a refining of God's organization. "And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?” So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”" 2,300 evenings and mornings equals 1,150 evenings plus 1,150 mornings. That is the same as 1,150 days. (1 evening plus 1 morning equals 1 day.) By 1,150 days after the great tribulation starts, the organization will have been refined. Revelation 12:6 context, after anointed are all sealed the kingdom is "born" but since anointed still on earth they are weak like child. Angels protect them (child figuratively "snatched away to God and to his throne") but kid still in wilderness with woman (still in this world, angels helping.) "And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days." A specific event happens at the 1,260th day from the beginning of the great tribulation. Daniel 12:11 another event happens at the 1,290th day from the start of the great tribulation: "And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days." Daniel 12:12 another event happens at the 1,335th day from the start of the great tribulation: "Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" Conclusion: The great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long. There will be several noteworthy events at specific times during that period. "...there is a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets...the Revealer of secrets has made known to you what is to happen." Praise Jehovah.

Regarding what is clean and unclean, a summary of these things was sent to Bethel. (Many people write to Bethel all the time. Over the years, Jehovah has moved many faithful ones to write to Bethel to share with the brothers what is clearly written in God's Word. Jehovah loves those brothers at Bethel, and that's why He keeps sending his servants to warn them of what is coming via the UN.)

"So I call you to witness this very day that I am clean from the blood of all men..." Since this thread is about "clean vs unclean" and we have already pounded the disfellowshipping topic into the pavement, maybe we can switch gears and talk about blood for awhile. The first century governing body made clear that true worship was not to be difficult and restricted by fancy doctrines and unnecessary burdens. "So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter. After much intense discussion had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, you well know that from early days God made the choice among you that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe. And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also. And he made no distinction at all between us and them, but purified their hearts by faith. So why are you now making a test of God by imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing? On the contrary, we have faith that we are saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus in the same way that they are.”" It wasn't necessary to have "publisher" or "non-publisher" distinctions. It wasn't necessary to go over questions for baptism. (Cornelius and his household received holy spirit before they were baptized. They didn't go over any questions. Back then, "Bible studies" didn't even have a copy of the Bible, it wasn't finished being written yet. But they still "qualified" for baptism.) Anyway, the list of proper protocol for Christians was not long enough to need another book. Here is what the first century governing body concluded: "Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood." The new Christians were not required to get circumcised. They were not required to meet with elders and go over a hundred questions on several occasions. They didn't have to study a book or go out in field service or raise their hands to comment. They didn't even have to own a tie. The requirement for them was this: abstain from blood and sexual immorality. Jehovah required blood be poured on the ground - thrown away. Any blood that is not thrown away is still blood. Even if it's a fraction. This is the most simple command, and yet it is completely disregarded at present by those who say "accepting blood fractions is a conscience matter". It's not a conscience matter according to the Bible. It's as clear as day that any blood fraction is totally unacceptable. Knowingly and willingly putting any blood fraction in your body is grieving God's holy spirit and is an act of brazen disobedience. Because the current governing body has disregarded this clear counsel from God's Word, they have apostatized and become lawless ones in this area as well. They have misled the flock and as a result the sheep have greatly sinned against Jehovah.

(It seems some of the prior posts are missing, as well as Mr. Moise. I will do my best to fill in the blanks for some of the ones that were more recent and tag whoever I can remember was in the conversation, please forgive me if I inadvertently forgot to tag someone...) If the governing body are the "Faithful And Discreet Slave" and if they are the "one channel" and if they are anointed with Jehovah's holy spirit, then they should know that taking in any blood fractions form is a sin for a true Christian. They are not faithful to what the Bible teaches. They are not discreet, since they are not warning the flock. If they are anointed, then they have gravely grieved the holy spirit so badly that they can't see basic Bible truths at present. They are not the "one channel" for teaching. Jesus said the holy spirit is the "channel" used by God, the means to teach. When John said, "the anointing is teaching you" he was not talking to just David Splane, Sam Herd, Gage Fleegle, Jeffrey Winder, Gerrit Losch, Mark Anderson, Ken Cook, and Stephen Lett. Those guys weren't even born yet when John wrote those words. The governing body have apostatized from the Bible. Then they claim others are apostates. It's the oldest trick in the book. The Pharisees did the same thing. Jehovah is merciful, but He will make an accounting. The ransom is enough for whoever is willing to repent. Hopefully those guys have not sinned by blaspheming the holy spirit. I can't read hearts so I don't know what their problem is, but I do know for a fact that the holy spirit makes clear knowingly accepting ANY FORM OF BLOOD FRACTION is an abomination to God, and for those men on the current governing body to claim otherwise just shows me they are frauds. It is because of such sins that the wrath of God is coming. Those men are reproaching Jehovah's holy name, and leading others into the same sin. Jehovah will not keep silent forever. You will have to know that He is Jehovah and that those men treated him disrespectfully, just like happened to Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. @Anna @Arauna @Pudgy @TrueTomHarley @Amidstheroses @xero @Space Merchant @Mankeptforunnaturalporpoises

There are 407 verses in the NWT Bible that mention blood. Can you find even one that supports the "accepting blood fractions are a conscience matter" statement? (I can't. Because accepting blood fractions is unclean and clearly apostasy and standing away from Jehovah God.)

Hi, @Space Merchant, my brother! I hope you have been well.🙂 I am so glad you responded, because I know you have a ton of knowledge about the details of the early church history. From what you've studied, doesn't it appear that in the history of Christianity, there have often been very sincere lovers of God who have taken part in "apostate" practices, not out of malice or desire to deceive, but just because they didn't know any better? If "apostasy" is defined as "standing away from true worship" then in reality so many things done even by the faithful ones in the Old Testament were "apostasy". Jesus told us that a marriage should be between one man and one woman, and yet Jacob/Israel had several wives, as did David, who was also a man desirable to Jehovah's heart. At times men who were approved by Jehovah also permitted worship on the high places. There were real Christians who loved God and yet for years believed there was a Trinity (or who still believe it). In the early modern day history of Jehovah's Witnesses, they celebrated Christmas and used the cross, went to war. There are so many different forms of "apostasy". If we were to shun every person who calls themself a brother but is guilty of apostasy, then we wouldn't be talking to anybody in the congregation. Until everyone is perfect, we will all be "apostasizing" in the sense that we are all falling short of perfect true worship. It is only the ransom that makes our worship acceptable, that righteousness from faith, that undeserved kindness. Abraham was declared righteous by faith, not by perfection. The Jews couldn't be perfect in the Law. It's not possible for imperfect people to follow the perfect law. That's why we have the ransom. The early church fathers were doing the best they could, but they were imperfect, and just as Jesus and the apostles foretold, unholy traditions crept in right away. Yes, a business can fire an employee, yes, an organization can expel someone, but the congregation is to be a family. Just as the Mosaic Law allowed for divorce but later Jesus said it was a concession for their hardheartedness, so today. The whole excommunication/disfellowshipping is similar to what is done in a business, not a family. Jehovah hates a divorcing/disfellowshipping. The Mosaic Law had expelling because the elders then also had to be judges and the secular law authorities. But that is not the way in the Christian congregation. The Mosaic Law also allowed the Israelites to kill Canaanites because the Israelites were Jehovah's instrument to clean out the land of wrongdoing. But that is not the way in the Christian congregation. Jesus is the one given authority to cast out wrongdoers completely. In the meantime, Christians are admonished to exercise their Bible trained conscience and apply the counsel to not hang out with wrongdoers. This application of the Bible counsel is not given to a committee. It is for the individual Christian. Matthew chapter 18 was not directed just to the older men. In the context, we see that Jesus called a young child to him. If a young child was there, surely the mother was too. All Christians are to apply the counsel at Matthew 18, and the words "go to the congregation" do not mean "just tell a committee of elders". Jehovah God directly evicted Adam and Eve. Jehovah executed Korah, Dathan, and Abiram directly. Jehovah directly gave Miraim leprosy. Jehovah has the right to do certain things that we don't. Adam and Eve didn't have the right to eat from that one fruit tree in the garden, but they did it anyway. There were repercussions. They reaped what they sowed. The modern-day disfellowshipping/excommunication is the same in that those taking the lead are taking from the tree that doesn't belong to them. They are reaping what they have sown, and soon they will also reap discipline directly from Jehovah. As you said, Diotrephes tried to expel others. The whole current arrangement of disfellowshipping/excommunication is based on Diotrephes' way. Paul and John kept the congregation clean in the right way. They appealed to individual Christians to exercise their conscience and stop associating with those who were doing bad. They did not put in place any committees. Each Christian must use his own conscience. John's words "don't say a greeting" must be taken in harmony with Jesus' actions. Jesus talked to sinners all the time. John's words are telling us not to go along with wrongdoing as if it's okay. Jesus example teaches us. He teaches us. He is the way. If he wanted us to have committees, he would have told us. He didn't. He told us to love and to avoid the leaven of the Pharisees. The Bible is clear that the Pharisees were the ones who shunned. And the early church fathers were influenced by many of the Pharisaical traditions. It doesn't mean the church fathers were bad or not Christians. It just means they did what Paul and John and Peter and Jesus foretold would happen. Jesus is going to fix it. Won't it be so nice, @SpaceMerchant, when all of this divisions/doctrines are cleared away and the light shines so bright, we can just enjoy the peace of the entire family of faith!💖

Rotten Fruitage of Disfellowshipping Proves It's Not From Jehovah I. Effect on Individual Who Is Disfellowshipped II. Effect on Elder Doing the Disfellowshipping III. Effect on Existence of Wickedness in Congregation IV. Effect on Congregation Members V. Effect on People in the World VI. Effect on Jehovah I. Effect on Individual Who Is Disfellowshipped: They may or may not follow through on the direction to come back. Some are too crushed and never come back. Others are not repentant but don't want to leave family/friends so lie about "turning around" in order to come back. Thus the overall effect on many disfellowshipped individuals is to learn how to lie better and how to hide wrongdoing. II. Effect on Elder Doing the Disfellowshipping: Some elders know that disfellowshipping is wrong either while or after they disfellowship someone. Those elders damage their conscience and their freedom of speech with Jehovah. Over time they become callused and open themselves up to sin in other areas of their life. Other elders enjoy the power trip of "executing" people and begin to manifest a superior attitude which also grieves Jehovah's holy spirit in their lives. III. Effect on Existence of Wickedness in Congregation: The scriptures show that there would be wickedness in the congregation in the last days, implying "disfellowshipping" doesn't work. The following scriptural passages are talking about within the congregation: "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth." "...certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ...these men too are indulging in dreams, defiling the flesh, despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones..." (they speak abusively the glorious ones God and Christ by claiming to represent them while teaching false doctrines)...These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds who feed themselves without fear." In Revelation, Jesus describes false shepherds who act like "Jezebel" in that they put out a hit on holy ones. He also describes false shepherds who act like "Baalam" in that they only serve the flock for what they can get out of it (material gains, prominence). It is not disfellowshipping that removes them. It is Jesus when he comes. Peter, John, and Jesus' words in the gospels also warned that false shepherds would be in the congregation. These "wolves in sheeps clothing" avoid getting disfellowshipped but continue to do disgusting conduct and hurt the flock. The disfellowshipping process does not keep these wicked ones out; wicked shepherds use the disfellowshipping process to protect their own interests by disfellowshipping any who might threaten their interests. IV. Effect on Congregation Members: Congregation members learn to stop thinking and stop using their Bible trained conscience. They learn to ignore thinking ability when they follow the dictate to shun without knowing why they are shunning the person (they are unaware of what the disfellowshipped person did, they just obey the dictate to shun). They learn to callus their heart and ritualize hateful conduct (shunning). They grieve God's holy spirit on the congregation by repeated cooling of their love. V. Effect on People in the World: Most people in the world think disfellowshipping is hateful and it doesn't draw them to the congregation or Jehovah. It pushes them away from Jehovah. VI. Effect on Jehovah: Jehovah hates it. It makes him draw away from His people who practice it. It brings reproach on His holy name. At a certain point, He will not tolerate the disfellowshipping doctrine any more and He will allow the UN, as the instrument of His wrath, to take vengeance for all the reproach that Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization have heaped upon Jehovah God's holy name. Jehovah will sanctify His Holy Name, and then Jehovah's Witnesses will be cleansed of that reproach from the apostate disfellowshipping doctrine. Praise Jehovah.

@BroRando, Yes, soon false religion will be destroyed. And the sealing process as described in Revelation is referring to the entire group of 144,000 as a whole, in other words, those verses depict when that sealing is finished for the entire group. But the verses in Hosea about "2 days, three" are not applied to the anointed in context. The context does not show that, and there are no other scriptures to support that conclusion from that verse in Hosea. Additionally, the verse at Peter about "a thousand years are as a day" are not a formula to be applied in other places. There is no scriptural support for that. (Otherwise people could say the Floodwaters with the 40 days meant 40000 prophetic years or the 1000 years of the millennial reign is actually only 1 day or something like that.) The Bible is its own interpreter, and if it doesn't say something is prophetic, then it's not prophetic. The verse in Peter is saying time is relative. Sometimes a day seems really, really, really long when you are getting tortured. Sometimes time flies by so quickly when we are really busy. In context, Peter was not giving a formula for figuring prophecy. He was comforting us and saying, "hang in there - Jehovah hasn't forgotten about you." Jesus said no man would know the day or the hour the kingdom took power. That blows "the kingdom came in 1914" doctrine right out of the water. It is good to be on the watch. It is good to be eagerly waiting for the Master. We just have to be careful not to fall prey to the tricks of the Devil while we are waiting. Russell and Storrs fell prey to the numerology trick, and as a result they ended up misleading others who are now asleep to the time we are in. The Kingdom of the Heavens is near, and Jesus' ride on the white horse will make a lot of changes. We need to be awake. (I really like the photo you used for your profile picture, @BroRando. I think it's one of the most lovely ones on here. Thank you for caring so much about the flock and for loving Bible prophecy.)

"Truly I say to you that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins they commit and what blasphemies they speak." @Moise, I know you are afflicted. I cannot agree with everything you say, but I do hope you can enjoy your coffee this morning. (@Witness is not able to defend herself on the forum at present. She does not glorify herself above God. I do not agree with all the things she believes, but I do agree with her love for justice. She has been misled by a sect, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't love God, or that God doesn't love her, or that the ransom isn't enough for her. She is zealous and compassionate toward those hurt by the organization. I admire those qualities very much. Jehovah admires them even more than I do. They are the qualities of a good shepherd who wants to protect the flock. @Witness told me via private message that she has had her commenting privileges revoked on the forum. Maybe they will be restored soon. I hope she is well.💖)

"“Why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them." @Moise, Jesus used illustrations. You know this. Divorce tears apart a relationship. Abortion tears apart a relationship. Both illustrate a situation that parallels disfellowshipping. Disfellowshipping tears apart relationships. You know this. I do not blaspheme God, but you, @Moise, blaspheme and slander with practically every post. Jehovah will rebuke you. "Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.”" Jesus can heal the family. He can raise the dead, even the spiritually dead. He can fix the damage done by all the mistakes in the organization. And he will fix it, because he always does Jehovah's will. Jehovah is glorified in this. Jesus said: "Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again." Praise Jehovah.

Pharoah threw Israel's firstborn into the water. Later Jehovah took vengeance by throwing Pharoah and his "firstborn", the elite warriors of all Egypt, into the water. In ancient Israel, apostates sacrificed children in the valley of Gehenna, something that Jehovah detested. Today if you visit "Ex JW Reddit" you see a figurative valley of Gehenna, where many children of Jehovah have been figuratively sacrificed to a living death, called disfellowshipping. Many of them are now practically spiritually dead, "killed" because of a lack of love. How is disfellowshipping any different than divorce or abortion? These "divorced" and "aborted" Witnesses are still alive and suffering. It makes me sick to visit that website, because they are all suffering so much. Jehovah hears all their tears. Jehovah's name is reproached because of this disgusting disfellowshipping teaching. Jehovah will sanctify His Name and figuratively "resurrect" the faith of all those little ones who have been figuratively "sacrificed" to the Baal of the Governing Body. Jesus will make clear how he feels about matters. Praise Jehovah.

I. Greek influence on early apostate Christians II. Disfellowshipping is a form of Ostracism from Greek culture III. Jesus did not adhere to apostate Greek philosophies (From "Mankind's Search for God" chap. 3 pp. 54-55 par. 25 Common Threads in Mythology) "The Greek mythology of the soul went on to influence the Roman concept, and the Greek philosophers, such as Plato (about 427-347 B.C.E.), strongly influenced early apostate Christian thinkers who accepted the immortal soul teaching into their doctrine, even though it had no Biblical basis." https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101990035#h=32 Just as Greek philosophy influenced religious ideas regarding the soul, so Greek philosophy also influenced congregation doctrines of the early apostate Christian thinkers. "os·tra·cism /ˈästrəˌsiz(ə)m/ noun noun: ostracism (1) exclusion from a society or group."the family suffered social ostracism" Similar: exclusion, rejection, repudiation, shunning, spurning, the cold shoulder, cold-shouldering, boycotting, blackballing, blacklisting, snubbing, avoidance, barring, banishment, exile, expulsion, disfellowship, excommunication Opposite: acceptance, welcome (2) (in ancient Greece) temporary banishment from a city by popular vote." (Dictionary, Oxford Languages) "Ostracism was crucially different from Athenian law at the time; there was no charge and no defense could be mounted by the person expelled. The two stages of the procedure ran in the reverse order from that used under almost any trial system—it is as if a jury were first asked "Do you want to find someone guilty?", and subsequently asked "Whom do you wish to accuse?". The judicial framework is perhaps the institution's most peculiar feature: it can take place at most once a year, and only for one person. It resembles the Greek pharmakos or scapegoat—though in contrast, pharmakos generally ejected a lowly member of the community.[13] A further distinction between these two modes (and not obvious from a modern perspective) is that ostracism was an automatic procedure that required no initiative from any individual, with the vote simply occurring on the wish of the electorate—a diffuse exercise of power. By contrast, an Athenian trial needed the initiative of a particular citizen-prosecutor. While prosecution often led to a counterattack (or was a counterattack itself), no such response was possible in the case of ostracism as responsibility lay with the polity as a whole. In contrast to a trial, ostracism generally reduced political tension rather than increased it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism The Pharisaical Jews were tossing people out of the synagogue while Jesus was on earth, ostracizing them. They led the formerly blind man to the Pharisees...And again they said to the blind man: “What do you say about him, since it was your eyes that he opened?” The man said: “He is a prophet.” However, the Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had gained sight, until they called the parents of the man who could now see. And they asked them: “Is this your son who you say was born blind? How, then, does he now see?” His parents answered: “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. But how it is that he now sees, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know. Ask him. He is of age. He must speak for himself.” His parents said these things because they were in fear of the Jews, for the Jews had already come to an agreement that if anyone acknowledged him as Christ, that person should be expelled from the synagogue... The man answered them: “This is certainly amazing, that you do not know where he is from, and yet he opened my eyes...If this man were not from God, he could do nothing at all.” In answer they said to him: “You were altogether born in sin, and yet are you teaching us?” And they threw him out! Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and on finding him, he said: “Are you putting faith in the Son of man?” The man answered: “And who is he, sir, so that I may put faith in him?” Jesus said to him: “You have seen him, and in fact, he is the one speaking with you." People feared disfellowshipping. When honest-hearted ones obeyed God, they were sometimes disfellowshipped. Jesus spoke with the man the elders disfellowshipped. "Now one of the Pharisees kept asking him to dine with him. So he entered the house of the Pharisee and reclined at the table. And look! a woman who was known in the city to be a sinner learned that he was dining in the house of the Pharisee, and she brought an alabaster jar of perfumed oil...Seeing this, the Pharisee who had invited him said to himself: “If this man were really a prophet, he would know who and what kind of woman it is who is touching him, that she is a sinner.”...With that he turned to the woman and said to Simon: “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet. But this woman wet my feet with her tears and wiped them off with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but this woman, from the hour that I came in, did not stop tenderly kissing my feet. You did not pour oil on my head, but this woman poured perfumed oil on my feet. Because of this, I tell you, her sins, many though they are, are forgiven, because she loved much. But the one who is forgiven little, loves little.” Then he said to her: “Your sins are forgiven.” Those reclining at the table with him started to say among themselves: “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” But he said to the woman: “Your faith has saved you; go in peace." The elders had written the woman off as one to be spurned, given the cold shoulder, shunned. Jesus talked to her. Compassionately. Now she's in the Bible as an example for us to imitate. "She loves much." The one who is forgiven much loves much. (We are all forgiven much.) As far as eating with sinners goes..."Now a man named Zac·chaeʹus was there; he was a chief tax collector, and he was rich...Now when Jesus got to the place, he looked up and said to him: “Zac·chaeʹus, hurry and get down, for today I must stay in your house.” With that he hurried down and joyfully welcomed him as a guest. When they saw this, they were all muttering: “He went as a guest to the house of a man who is a sinner.” But Zac·chaeʹus stood up and said to the Lord: “Look! The half of my belongings, Lord, I am giving to the poor, and whatever I extorted from anyone, I am restoring four times over.” At this Jesus said to him: “Today salvation has come to this house, because he too is a son of Abraham. For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost.” Zacchaeus was an extortioner. Jesus knew it. Jesus didn't wait for Zacchaeus to repent before eating with him. Jesus didn't wait for Zacchaeus to make amends before eating with him. Jesus initiated the request to eat with a known sinner, who was guilty of serious sin, extortion, before the man stopped the bad behavior. "For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost." Jesus said: "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." "...let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ."💖

Who am I to withhold the simple pleasure of laughter from my brother? Okay, I will take your advice on that one. Not even once. The word "love" appears in the New World Translation 561 times. You yourself are saying it. Amen. Follow the Word of God. "God is Love." Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus showed what Love looks like. Jesus did not disfellowship even one person while he was on earth. He talked to everybody, even wicked people. Jesus talked to sinners, even those shunned by the elders, even gross sinners. Follow the Word. The disfellowshipping doctrine is not loving. Here is what love is: "Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."💖

A. Sources for Disfellowshipping Doctrine I. The Didache (an apocryphal book) II. The Catholic Church III. The New World Translation Committee B. What the Bible Actually Teaches I. Matthew 18:15-17 II. 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 III. 2 John 10 IV. Letters to Timothy From Chapter 15 of the Didache "But to anyone that acts amiss against another, let no one speak, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents." https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html "Origin of Excommunication The process of church discipline and exclusion from the Church is an ancient practice, dating back to the early days of Christianity. In 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, St. Paul famously instructs the Church in Corinth to remove a member who had committed a serious offense. In Matthew 18:15-17, Jesus outlines a process of church discipline that culminates with the exclusion of members who refuse to repent. This early excommunication is seen as a form of discipline and correction, meant to humble the offending members and lead them to repentance." https://study.com/academy/lesson/excommunication-catholic-church-origin-offenses-examples.html Disfellowshipping was not part of the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine during the early days of the Awake! magazine. ("Are You Excommunicated?" Awake 1946, pages 26-27) https://archive.org/details/1947Awake/page/n25/mode/2up Fred Franz had a history in religious studies that influenced his beliefs. Some of those religious studies involved the apostate "church fathers". When Fred Franz and the other translators worked on the New World Translation, they shaped New Testament texts to support those apostate beliefs on disfellowshipping rather than reflect the original Greek. Matthew 18:15-17 in the original language says "go to the congregation" meaning all the brothers, not just the "elders". There is a different word for "elders" and that's not the word used in Matthew 18. It specifically means the entire congregation. If the whole congregation knows about the serious sins of one member, then the individual congregation members can exercise their conscience to limit association with someone. Convening a judicial committee or a giving a label "disfellowshipped" is unnecessary and not scriptural. 1 Corinthians 5 in context the Christians worshipped in homes. They would eat the Memorial meal together in the home. When it says "not even eating" it is including eating the Memorial emblems, the Lord's Evening Meal. The owner of the house should know better than to invite over for partaking of the emblems a brazen unrepentant fornicator who is sleeping with his dad's wife. That is the context of Paul's words. The homeowner should know better than to keep company with brazen unrepentant wrongdoers for worship in their home. Paul said they shouldn't let him in as long as he was still doing the bad sin. Once the man repented, he came back. There was no "silent treatment period" where he had to attend without talking or meet with a committee. Everybody knew when he cut off the relationship with his dad's wife. 2 John 10 in original Greek doesn't say "don't say a greeting" it means "don't encourage someone to keep sinning." Paul's letters to Timothy about "handing them over to Satan for discipline" also included the words "instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will." In order to instruct with mildness, the wrongdoer would have to be talked to and communicated with, not completely ignored as if they were dead. (The word "Disfellowshipping" is not in the Bible.) Jesus came to save what was lost. God is Love. Praise Jah.

Hi, @BroRando, interesting topic. The math part of it doesn't quite seem to add up, but, yes, this that you said about the other prophecies connected to it... The Bible shows that the timing of the sealing of the anointed is tied in with an event that we can see, the destruction of false religion: "After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”" The angels are "exercising a restraint" over the winds of destruction on false religion. We will know the anointed are all sealed when we see the attack on false religion. Paul also talked about that time in Second Thessalonians: "And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time." The "he" is the lawless one. The context of 2 Thessalonians shows that some religious people would be saying "the day of Jehovah is here" (like those who say "Jesus took the throne in 1914) but that their pronouncement is apostate. "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come" (the day of Jehovah beginning with Jesus' enthronement) "unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god." The "man of lawlessness" cannot mean Christendom, because they have never said "the day of Jehovah is here" in a way that's actually fooled everybody. The current governing body has claimed to make decrees in God's name, and lives/is seated in "the House of God" namely Bethel ("Bethel means the House of God" there's even a Caleb and Sophia song about it...) "But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception..." The leaders of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses have deceived millions of people into thinking "the day of Jehovah" came in 1914. Satan used powerful works and lying signs to make it seem like it came true. War. Pestilence. (He is the ruler of the world, it's no big deal for him to do those things.) Jesus is revealing these things by the word of his mouth. "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth..." Jesus said he would give us words to speak by means of Jehovah's spirit. When we speak in harmony with truth, when we bear witness to truth, we are cooperating with the Source of that spirit. Anyway, since we are seeing the lawless one revealed, we know the anointed must be sealed and it is close to the time when false religion will be destroyed. Praise Jehovah. (PS I finally learned how to change the font so it's not so big! Sorry I'm such a slow learner😬...better late than never they say😊)

Jehovah's organization will be cleansed. The coalition of nations is his instrument to do away with both Babylon the Great and "Jezebel" (those who claim to be God's people but cling to false worship, those who bear false witness about holy ones and misuse authority to get them "killed" figuratively). Disfellowshipping tradition, mishandling abuse cases, paid clergy class ("special-full time servants" and "faithful and discreet slave" title misapplied), and many other traditions will be cleared out. "Start at my sanctuary, the elders in front of the house" is where the attack on Babylon will begin. All those "sighing and groaning over what is going on" in the organization are marked for survival. Jehovah has allowed his name on his organization, and for his name's sake he will clean it. If you are in the organization, "Hold fast what you have until I come," says Jesus. If you have been tossed out for doing what is right, just a little while longer and you will be restored. The little sheep who have been skinned and thrown about on all the high mountains will be restored. The bad shepherds will be removed. (Ezekiel chapter 34) Praise Jehovah! https://jehovahswitnessesfriends.weebly.com