BTK59

42 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness. 

Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues.

Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions.

Just a suggestion since they are on your heels.

Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH?

They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song.

Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha!

By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it?

See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol!

Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."

6 hours ago, George88 said:

Did the lost son sin against his fellow Christians or the community he was not entrusted to serve or care for? This was the compassion the father felt for a son who had lost his way in life. His sin was what he had done to himself, not others.
What then is the purpose of Jesus in the parable of the prodigal son? It is to communicate the profound message that anyone, without exception, can find a place in the Kingdom of God, as long as they sincerely undergo a genuine metamorphosis and transformation of their life.

The parable of the prodigal son serves as a powerful reminder of a simple truth: the importance of granting pardon when it is necessary and knowing when to leave the unjust to their own devices. The complementary text to Luke 15 is found in Isaiah 57.

The figurative expression of Jesus' parable encapsulates what we can discern in Paul's words to the Ephesian congregation in Ephesians 2:1. It does not mean that the father literally thought his child was dead to him.

Ephesians 2:1-2 New International Version
Made Alive in Christ
2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Once again, the central theme of obedience and disobedience takes the spotlight. Paul emphasized this idea when he penned his letter to the Romans in Romans 6:2.

Romans 6 New International Version
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Should a follower of Christ keep sinning in order to be forgiven repeatedly? Other passages in the Bible make it clear that this is not the case. How can we understand this with spiritual maturity? Once again, the Apostle Paul established the basis for Christ's teachings in his letter in Hebrews 6:1.

Hebrews 6 New International Version
6 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.

"Dead works," Apostle Paul's powerful message is truly impactful. This concept is further illuminated in James 2:26.

NAS  James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (Jas. 2:26 NAS)

No true worship or service without an obedient heart

2. Without a sincere and humble spirit of subjection, without a holy and obedient heart, all our prayers and all our services are nothing in the sight of God; are founded in hypocrisy; are no better than a mockery of his name. Submission to the authority and will of God must ever be essential to true religion under every dispensation; and few persons there are, who doubt this as a speculative truth. But there is a vast difference between the outward submission of an unrepentant and ungodly heart, and the inward submission of the penitent and the pious! It is the subjection of mind, the surrender of the affections to the will and law of God, which constitutes an acceptable service. Pardon is graciously promised to all who truly repent, and the word of God assures us, that it will be extended to none besides: upon what ground then can the unrepentent sinner presume to ask forgiveness? And how can that man dare to implore of God the grace to repent, who has no intention and no real desire of repenting? He is but adding insult to his sin. How can the wilful sinner who lives, and is yet determined to live, in any course of guilt, really pray for deliverance from the bondage of sin?
(from The Biblical Illustrator)

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I fail to see what worldly education has to do with understanding the deeper spiritual things of Jehovah. Wisdom comes from applying Jehovah's principles and reading his word regularly.

A mature Christian can see when someone is misapplying, sidestepping or not seeing a point. No degree needed for that.  Just Jehovah's spirit. 

I fail to understand how someone without a background in biblical education can criticize those who have formal training and effectively apply their knowledge, while those without such education consistently refuse to apply it accurately.

If Bible scholars are able to discern what certain witnesses here refuse to acknowledge, then their education is far more effectively utilized. Will you now defend the indefensible? Is that your rationale for providing a commentary on compassion and misguided Christian love, merely to defend those in the closed club?

I refuse to engage in a quarrel with someone who is selective in their understanding of the Bible. It's evident that the misrepresentation from those who identify as JWs is clear to anyone outside the closed club. However, what is the true purpose behind your confrontational language?

On 5/4/2024 at 10:54 AM, George88 said:

The crucial factor for God is not external intelligence, but rather the inner wisdom to employ reasoning and understanding in accordance with God's knowledge. When individuals exhibit a deficiency in this inner knowledge, they are undermining the purpose of God's guidance for humanity. In essence, they are rejecting everything that God has revealed to mankind, thereby mirroring the rejection of Christ as the Israelites once did, despite witnessing the power of God firsthand.

The absence of intellectual rigor burdens us individually. Therefore, if we exhibit it in public, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Spiritual maturity encompasses that.

Here is where I disagree, George. People who do not have a formal degree and fail to demonstrate internal wisdom have no reason to criticize or belittle someone else's academic or personal education. However, they can still benefit from applying secular and biblical education in its appropriate context and with the right intentions.
If someone cannot demonstrate any kind of intelligence, then their opinions are without value. Moreover, those who criticize spiritual individuals, despite lacking outer or inner wisdom, do so out of mental weakness rather than intellectual rigor, as they demand that people follow and accept their interpretations instead of submitting to God's teachings.

The same scenario is unfolding today as it did in the time of Moses within the Israelite encampment. In Exodus 32:46, Moses wisely counseled the Israelites to make a crucial decision - whom would they choose to follow, as recorded in the sacred words of Scripture.

There is a greater depth of genuine love when a person warns others about those who purposefully display their wrongful deeds in public, which closely aligns with the advice given in Matthew 24:10. Let us heed the words of God and recognize that blood guilt is a serious matter, both here and elsewhere.

Oh! Death threats coming from a pervert. I'm not surprised to hear such foolish words from someone like you. Will you be able to cleanse yourself of what you've become when it's time for you to leave? I have a different perspective and I believe that many of you might have mental health issues, and among all, you are the worst.

What else do you have, as a nob, are you going to insult my mother? This is Tom's definition of repentance, which the closed club of Jehovah's Witnesses embraces and defends with conviction.

How did engineers manage to do their work before the advent of AutoCAD? The old school was much more intricate than your rudimentary education could comprehend. That's why I have had the privilege of working at prestigious institutions such as the Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant, Diablo Canyon Power Plant, and even for NASA. So, pardon me if I say that your credentials don't quite measure up. And mind you, that's just a glimpse into my own achievements. Others may have more credentials than I do.

However, none of these factors are relevant to the transformation into a deteriorating individual and the squandering of one's life. You claim to be just and repentant, yet you and your friends here advocate for outrageous ideologies. It's ironic that you expect your kind of believers to support such contradictory beliefs. Your inconsistency is truly laughable.

Who, me. No, I'm not attempting to insult you Pudgy. You're already doing a great job at it on your own. I'm just agreeing with you.

It's quite the role reversal, Pudgy. Now you're the victim instead of the villain. It seems you think just like them, and that's the issue here. When one person chooses to remain ignorant, others will often follow in their footsteps, perpetuating a cycle of ignorance.

1 hour ago, George88 said:

You are clearly an immature person, Anna, seeking to ban others like you have done in the past. Your behavior reflects poorly on you. So, crawl back in your hole the closed club with the right of the fake witnesses.

Why are you condoning their insults and profanity? Have you even heard of a nob? Educate yourself! And to think, Tom, Xero, Pudgy, Pete started the fights and yet you have the audacity to call me immature. There's a limit to delusion, you know.

First, the irony lies in his claim that he can design an oil refinery or a municipal water system in his mind while he can't seem to keep his head out of the toilet and mind out of the gutter. 😂

Anyone, regardless of intellect, can create something if they apply themselves. However, such endeavors may not contribute to one's spiritual growth. 

Here we have a situation where a person openly admits to being rude and obnoxious, and others seem to accept it. But when someone stands up for themselves against these individuals, they are not accepted. It is concerning that this kind of behavior is not only tolerated but even celebrated.

Be cautious, as it seems that a ban is imminent when individuals brandish their guns. Disrespectful women who mistakenly believe they are immune to criticism simply because of their gender. They adopt the same mindset as a select group of authoritarian figures who consider themselves privileged to voice complaints and criticize the Watchtower, much like apostates. However, these same people are outraged when others dare to critique them for their deceptions, misguided perspectives and interpretations. How sad the mind works on certain people.

Just for you to understand @TrueTomHarley Accepting someone's repentance at face value, especially after they were rearrested last year for the same crime of 8 felony counts that might have been reduced to 2 as of 2020, makes the idea of repentance meaningless, particularly in James's case. What does it say about a person if they cannot prove it in a secular court?

Srecko holds the Watchtower, GB, and the Elders responsible for this type of condition within the Org, according to all his distorted posts about his truth. Are you in favor of Srecko's ideology considering your desire to defend everyone?

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You don’t keep up with new light, do you? These days we can say hello to him. So, we here in the closed club acted almost like prophets, anticipating the change, saying hello in advance.

I strongly believe that we should not be false prophets. Instead, we should extend a sincere invitation to those who are willing to repent. Where do you and he stand on that? Perhaps the one that fails to understand the new light is yourself.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We accepted his ‘repentance’ as genuine, which it is (especially if you are not too fussy).

What truly constitutes genuine repentance when one speaks against the Watchtower organization and biblical truths? Why are you putting in so much effort to portray him as a martyr when he clearly is not one. You're persistently trying to make a sale, even though there are no interested buyers and everyone can clearly see through your deceitful act.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We accepted his DFing as more or less a technicality, completely brought on at his own insistence, and had he not acted in such a ‘throw oneself on the pyre’ manner,, as most anyone else would not have, it wouldn’t have happened. We took his circumstances at face value

That's what he and the liars keep insisting. How much can honest people truly accept? You are currently tailoring your performance specifically for the exclusive audience within the closed club.

That is why your final comment to James exposes you and JWI as hypocrites as the Admin and Librarian, just like the Pharisees. That's not a good thing. 🤣

21 people tried to destroy you, but it only took you to achieve it. The calendar clearly exposes your deceit. As for you telling people in the closed club, that's just your word and theirs. If they accepted you as a disfellowshipped individual out of friendship, it only shows that they prefer the friendship of man over God.

This situation reveals their hypocrisy more than initially apparent. Exposing them does not work in their favor.
If you insist on going down with a sinking ship, why would you compel others to join you?

However, I agree that even when you were a Jehovah's Witness, you were not in good standing. Some of your colleagues here are the same. Mostly the reason for such grave resistance.

As for being crude, rude, and prone to rants and raves as excused by Tom, is hypocritical, especially after preaching the importance of abstaining from arguments. It's unbelievable that while hundreds have been banned by that mindset, you remain. Treating some people one way and excusing others for the same behavior makes you all unbelievable liars and narcissists. Your actions are foolish and unacceptable.

James, that's not the main focus. We will all pass away before the arrival of judgment day, unless we're around 100 years old. Your repentance is what truly matters. Appreciate your soul and learn to love it as much as God loves all of his creations. Don't let pride, anger, or hate deter you from the path of everlasting life. Make the right choice, despite the misleading guidance from your own mind.

If you truly believe that Morris's information is public like yours, Pudgy, then your friend should not have made any threats about posting public information here to ban those in his hit list. Not only would it be hypocritical, but also an utterly unconscionable deed.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. I removed it because the local elders were uncomfortable with it, judging from its cover an invitation to brawl with apostates—whereas the Witness organization encourages just the opposite—you know, along the lines of ‘a slave of the Lord does not need to fight.’

Interesting answer. But it's your truth.

That is indeed a crucial matter to consider. Shouldn't we aim for a world where dishonest individuals are not given a platform to spread falsehood unchecked? It seems contradictory to allow apostates and disgruntled fake witnesses on your site, only to defend them. Why do you blind yourself to their contribution to that strife that you only want to rebuke me, when I should in all honesty be rebuking you? Is that truly a superior approach? It begs the question: what happened to the core value of Colossians 3 that you often criticize as being excessively self-righteous? If being a witness bothers you to such an extent, perhaps it is time to reconsider your role and consider working for the opposing side.

Why not remove the banner proclaiming it as being for Jehovah's Witnesses if you despise a witness who upholds the truth?

It doesn't matter to me what might benefit you or your people here. My concern lies with the sincere witnesses who visit this unfortunate site, drawn by the welcoming Jehovah's Witness banner, only to realize that it is actually a haven of wickedness.

I constantly apply 1 John 3:17 and Luke 17:3, as it serves as a reminder of the importance of generosity and compassion through God's eyes protecting your brothers soul. Unlike some, that have lost sight of the significance of Scripture.

So, let apostates continue to post, and I will meet their arguments with the truth.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We are not ‘aware’ of anything online, where truthful speech is punished, where liars proliferate, and where, unless you know someone personally, you haven’t a clue.

If you're trying to justify James Thomas Rook Jr's unacceptable behavior, then his public record will need to be cleared. James, I was just wondering why your friend, the ex-Bethelite, never tried to ban you for revealing Brother Morris' house, including its location, street address, warranty deeds, and any other information you might have had in the past here.

Also, your 8/16/2020 arrest that brought you 8 felony charges is not the same as your rebooking date of 02/02/2023. The prosecutor is prepared to bring these additional charges to court as an extension of the previous ones. Your criminal record is an open book, impossible to conceal by your friend Tom, regardless of his efforts.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You can get a feel for someone over time, but nothing more.

Did you remove your book about apostates because you began defending them, and your conscience as a former Elder couldn't tolerate that hypocrisy?

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Frankly, the biggest mystery here (by far) is you, who dials up the judgment 10-fold and dials back the fellow-feeling by as much.

Are you suggesting that you shouldn't be defending God's judgment against those who are incorrigible and liars, rather than passing judgment yourself?

When God brings forth a mysterious event that confuses people, there is a profound biblical explanation as to why individuals are often blinded by their own actions and behavior.

We are aware that Pudgy has been disfellowshipped for a heinous and embarrassing crime. As the puppet master of Pete, he has shown himself to be an uncivilized individual. Given this situation, it is unlikely that you will receive any civilized comments on this thread.

Matthew and Srecko are also his sock puppets who criticize at every opportunity. Matthew claims to be Christian, but his unchristian behavior is evident, as they attempt to insult the Watchtower with their empty boasting.

I expect nothing but more uncivilized comments from other uncivilized apostates. Those other posts and statements reveal more about their mental illness than anything else. It appears to me that Pete is posing the right question to the mirror and receiving the wrong answer in return. Who are the real false witnesses here besides themselves?

Therefore, in the fight between good and evil, they demonstrate to be on the losing end against God while embracing their father, Satan.

What's even sadder is this fake news outlet.

I would say, until something is confirmed, it can't be considered new light out of gossip.

Just to be clear JWI, TOM, Librarian, that sick individual @Miracle Pete It's unacceptable that someone would use such offensive language on your forum, violating your bylaws. It's even more outrageous that the individual is allowed to continue while you consider banning me for simply speaking the truth.

I just wanted to point out your hypocrisy here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nob#:~:text=Derogatory term for a man's,in the UK and Ireland

• Derogatory term for a man's penis, typically used as an insult in the UK and Ireland

Your mentally ill @Miracle Pete, and I hope you're not a witness, just a sadistic animal.

From an individual who seems unapologetically self-absorbed, I must inform you that your perspective carries little significance. Therefore, feel free to express yourself vehemently and indulge in immature behavior.

Keep in mind that God is aware of your intricate malicious intentions. Remember, the consequences are a result of your own actions, leaving no one else to hold accountable but you.

I agree @Miracle Pete You and @Pudgy, are a nob. However, you have the potential to become even more, as unrepentant fools have the ability to do and say anything. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1. not all GB members are influenced by the "same HS" when making decisions
2. HS does not "lead" all GB members equally and simultaneously, in harmony, in unity,
3. the decisions made by the GB are not united by "one spirit", that means the HS is disunited or the GB is disunited,
4. none of the JWs have a guarantee that the decisions made by the GB are the "will of God", that is, that they are for the benefit of the believers. God's will consists in the fact that the "sheep" do not go astray, but if the decision was made only because of 2/3 who overrode, overrule 1/3, then it is not God's will but human,
5. the annulled decisions of the previous GB prove that they were "human decisions" without "guidance by HS",
6. the previous statement (No.5) proves that even the current decisions of GB do not have to be "from HS"

Since this list is mostly false and contrived. What distinguishes present spiritual leaders from those in the past, when Jesus is the head of the congregation? Do you imply that Jesus made a mistake by trusting others, including the apostles, with that responsibility?

Have you ever truly comprehended scripture, or do you simply enjoy improvising your own interpretations?

Also, I don't know who feeds you that nonsense about the GB overriding other members. If the source is a weak Bethelite from the writing department, then he is mistaken. No one overrides anyone. In the absence of the Holy Spirit, the Governing Body patiently seeks complete harmony, eagerly awaiting the divine guidance that will unite them with a single purpose.  Similar to the events of the past, it is important to note that the Holy Spirit was not received by all the apostles simultaneously. They performed various tasks united by a single cause. To glorify God. The apostles were bestowed with the extraordinary power to perform miracles by God, leading them to comprehend the indomitable force of God through Christ. Now we have the Bible, but it works in the same manner. 

How does Scripture offer guidance on dealing with the absence of the Holy Spirit among the apostles? Experience the profound teachings of the book of Mark. That goes for Elders. The Holy Spirit's gift from God manifests in various ways in people. The only rule here is the person's acceptance by God. If someone who has received the Holy Spirit commits sacrilege due to their bad behavior, they will be unable to comprehend the mysteries of scripture, as Satan has blinded them, leading them towards evil intentions. This means that these individuals will begin to interpret scripture according to their own misconceptions.

Where on earth did you acquire such a profound ability to misinterpret scripture to such an extreme extent?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you think like that, then it is also clear to you that GB has no justification for making decisions about who can and who cannot be greeted.

Not at all, you twist the narrative as usual. God is the ultimate judge, so a rational person doesn't have to search for hidden meanings. However, scripture teaches that the responsibility of decision-making lies with responsible individuals, just as Jesus entrusted that responsibility to the apostles, who in turn delegated it to the Elders and successors thereafter. The lack of spiritual maturity from former members is futile.

Hence, it is the scripture that ultimately decides who deserves assistance once they have demonstrated remorse. When hardcore apostates persist in their harmful ways, there is also a biblical perspective that sheds light on this phenomenon. Who does God entrust to take action as his earthly representatives?

You lack the credibility or justification to believe that God hears apostates or those who disrespect his sovereignty by using his name.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You contradict yourself again and again, because you stated that only God sees the true situation. This means that you have admitted that GB, and also that you personally, do not know who is an "apostate" and who is not. Because, you say, the point is who makes the observation. Since the observation is made by "imperfect" people, their assessment of who is a "renegade, apostate" is based on shaky, unreliable, inaccurate and biased conclusions. GB regularly confirms, with their nonsensical instructions, that they have placed themselves at that level of power.

How is that a contradiction if God knows every movement in thought? Apostates don't hide who they are. You're a vocal apostate and blasphemer, how are you hiding your actions? Make sense. God knows those who conceal their true intentions and pretend to be righteous witnesses. However, they also expose their façade of dishonesty. It's not invisible here. Their reluctance to show themselves at a gathering is a sign of cowardice, but God sees through that facade even if humanity cannot. They are not deceiving God, but rather themselves, and that is the crucial distinction you are overlooking.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because, you say, the point is who makes the observation. Since the observation is made by "imperfect" people, their assessment of who is a "renegade, apostate" is based on shaky, unreliable, inaccurate and biased conclusions. GB regularly confirms, with their nonsensical instructions, that they have placed themselves at that level of power.

If people are attentive to the actions and behavior of others, the observer, entrusted by God to take earthly action through scripture, should rely solely on that understanding. The instructions from the Governing Body do not have to be comprehensible to apostates; rather, they should serve to validate the beliefs of genuine witnesses and expose any imposters.

6 hours ago, George88 said:

One of the most notable instances of deception concerning Jewish antiquities was the widely known case of the ossuary belonging to James, the brother of Jesus. I was astonished by the judge's inexplicable justification for acquittal, as it was evident that his primary concern was preserving the reputation of the Jewish nation, rather than unearthing the truth behind the fraudulent artifact.

Hey Self! 🤣I came across this interesting conspiracy theory. There are scholars who firmly believe in the authenticity of those artifacts. I value having conversations with myself. The suggestion of a mentally ill person has led to the most obscure manifestation of a group of sorrowful individuals. 😁

Your opinion, Pete, holds no significance for me, as you are speaking as a sock puppet for either Tom or James. If you believe that ignorance on the part of one person represents the mindset of thousands, then it's futile for you to make a foolish argument when trying to generalize about a group of people, given the fact you generate aliases to defend your indefensible behavior. 

Feel free to criticize and form your own thoughts. It's not surprising that your opinion, much like Pudge's old sock puppet that became known as "pimple head," was obnoxious, just like you, Pete.

If you believe you are superior, you have already lost.

James, instead of twisting my words. I simply stated that you were accused and arrested for a despicable crime, regardless of whether those charges were or will be dismissed. Your arrest record, that is a public record, will forever cast a shadow over your life. The consequences of those felony charges are permanent, leaving an indelible mark. Once again, you insist that I share those charges, which I am more than willing to provide, in order to expose you as an inconsistent liar.

When it comes to these types of issues, you lack credibility and should be the last person people should seek advice from. 

Therefore, inform your friend and defender JWI that it's you demanding your personal information to be publicly disclosed here before he proceeds with any further threats by your insistence. Remember, your sorted history cannot be erased, nor the arrest or those felony charges included therein. IT'S YOU DEMANDING IT!

If anything, JWI should be reprimanding you for insisting that your sorted history be posted at your whim, and he should warn you that demanding it may result in your ban, instead of him defending the indefensible.