JWTheologian

17 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

I never said that. Show me where i did.

Keep reading your replies.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

I can strive to do this by giving God whole souled worship and with guidance of the Holy Spirit I can love my neighbor as myself.  No man should stand in the way of telling us how to do this.  I wouldn’t be on here to hopefully open JWs eyes if it wasn’t love for those I have known and loved for over 30 years.  I hate the lies which affect the lives of thousands under this operation of error over many years – the strong delusion JWs reside in. 

Now you’re just trying to impress and win an argument. Nothing you can write will compel me to go against God’s instructions. Instructions you wish to manipulate for your own personal gain.

Scripture is an impressive structure that God and Christ pressed upon to follow. Unfortunately, you wish to pick and choose only those things relevant to your argument NOT Bible Truth. I’m reminded of a Presbyterian Minister that wanted to win at all cost no matter if everything he was suggesting was against bible teachings, and his view could be corrected by just looking at the bible words in writing contrary to his personal view.

In the end, we will all be Judged by God. There will be no excuse, that one did not understand scripture since enough time has lapsed since society was free to study scripture for themselves versus just hearing it from clergy.

You have placed yourself above all, even though you lack bible knowledge other than using it to win an argument from a Witness, something you haven’t done, or will ever do with me. But now your proposition has become an oxymoron. To wit, that that you despise, you have become. So while you preach and teach in the hopes of opening Witnesses eyes to your distorted truth, you are in essence showing them, how false you have become.

Romans 3:8 Context: God Remains Faithful

8Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “- Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!

This is what should be learned. Situation Ethics or Moral Relativity. Was Paul insinuating to do evil? Or did he imply the evil was coming from those who were slandering him for doing the fine works Christ had instructed the apostles to continue after Christ death.

That same parallel applies to people like you.

Matthew 15:9 Context: Tradition and Worship

9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’” 10Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “Listen and understand. 11A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.” … 12Then the disciples came to Him and said, “Are You aware that the Pharisees were offended” when they heard this? 13But Jesus replied, “Every plant that My Heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by its roots.…

Hear you compare the faith in God to the obedience of MEN. This is “WHY” the WTS and JW’s don’t listen to MEN in this respect but “FOLLOW” Gods and Christ instructions to give those that take the responsibility to see to the flock, is NOT a doctrine of MEN, but a doctrine of God and Christ. Once again, the constitution of the WTS is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD.

Once again, in essence, WE should strive to REJECT your teachings as that does lead to following MEN, as a personal opinion and NOT the inspired word of God. God’s words were meant to learn, teach and reprove, NOT to be manipulated by MEN to win an argument.

Acts 3:22 Context: Peter Speaks in Solomon's Colonnade

22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.

 

So, no matter how you chose to believe your own words, it only resonates to you, not scripture.

To those that use uniformity to accept Gods inspired word then follow,

 

1 Corinthians 1:10 Context: Unity in the Church

10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction.

 

For the purpose of What,

Romans 16:26 Context: Doxology

26but now revealed and made known through the writings of the prophets by the command of the eternal God, in order to lead all the nations to the obedience that comes from faith.

Unity through faith is what God Commands, and Christ expects, through those they have chosen to receive the Holy Spirit.

One that contradicts scripture, will not or has not received God’s Holy Spirit.

On 7/19/2016 at 10:18 AM, Witness said:

You still haven’t shown me any other arrangement.  The early temple arrangement was a shadow of this new Temple in Christ.

Here's the thing. I’m not here to press upon you what I think scripture means. I’m basically here to convey to the people that come to this website, there are people that enjoy being deceptive by misleading people here, by showing WTS literature that doesn’t convey the sentiment of the WTS but their own convoluted opinion.

The WTS bases all it’s teaching from the Holy Bible. That’s the constitution of the WTS. The WTS for Jehovah’s Witnesses changed not necessarily in 1931 when it was announced, but 1934 when their literature reflected the name change. So, anyone Baptized under that name was a real Witness and not a reformed Bible Student like Rutherford that was baptized in 1906 under the banner of Bible Students, and anyone joining the Witnesses between 1934 and 1942, when Knorr became the FIRST true leader of Jehovah’s Witnesses under that banner, were Reformed Bible Students. A description that was never entered but should have been, RBS.

The idea that the Bible Students and the Jehovah’s Witnesses share the same ideology, is simply…distorting the FACTS.

Now your biggest problem with the WTS is HATE. You definitely don't understand scripture, but press upon using scripture to misrepresent the intended use. That’s fine. The only one your hurting is you.

Now you call yourself a Christian of good standing. FALSE! If you were in good standing, you would reflect in everything you write, and correct your views.

You pretend to ignore the FACT that God left, a structured scheme for man to follow after the fall of man. You continue to suggest that Jehovah himself has failed because he used people like, Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David, etc. and anyone he deemed fit to relay his wishes. God used MEN to achieve those goals. JESUS used MEN to achieve those goals.

So the perception is ludicrous no matter how you slice it. Not to mention, you would also have to cancel yourself for being part of the human race. (MEN) Therefore all the negativity you have for the WTS can also be APPLIED to YOU.

Now you stated elsewhere not to inject personal thoughts, and yet…the opinions you have about the WTS are your personal opinion. So, do yourself a favor and not rely on apostasy sites for your information, or wannabe JW’s that pretend to be Witnesses when they are NOT. Ann O’maly, and JWinsider are a perfect example of putting trust on a false prophet. But then, anyone evangelizing for deception in the eyes of God is a FALSE PROPHET, Right! Anyone who deliberately misleads the flock for their own personal gain. Why was King Saul removed!!!

Answer yourself that. The Governing Body if you really must know didn’t have its inception when it was first published that way. It began Before Rutherford. So WTS history, you definitely don't.

Now, the outlandish look in leaders, would pretty much includes ALL religions, since they are all governed by someone. For Witnesses, we believe in scripture as our constitution.

But try to justify ACTS 6:3 Context: The Choosing of the Seven

3Therefore, brothers, select from among you seven men confirmed to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will appoint this responsibility to them.

These are GODS WORDS and CHRIST INSTRUCTIONS, I dare you!!!!!!!!!!!, find fault with them both, for suggesting to find 7 reputable “MEN”, among “MEN”. Which is the makeup of the Governing Body right now.

So, you can recite the entire bible. It won’t make any difference until you learn the TRUE meaning of scripture. Don’t let hypocrisy be ones undoing. Because in essence, your going against bible principle.

22 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Really?

 

Did Jesus really say He was God?

Interesting. You seem to be contradicting yourself in so many levels. However, you are correct. JESUS is NOT GOD, but a level of deity now as a God for being the Son of God. First created, first to sacrifice himself for the sake of humanity. If GOD would be classified as a KING, then JESUS would be a COREGENT, by his sacrifice, and a well deserving title.

But, Christ never placed himself above God(Jehovah). So it would be appropriate for us to do the same, if we call ourselves followers of Christ.

 

On 7/15/2016 at 8:41 AM, Witness said:

I give you scripture upon scripture, hoping you will open your eyes.  Yes, Christ demands unity of the Body as source of teaching and building up of one another. In prophesy, we are told that those who are “sighing and groaning” over all these detestable things is being done in the midst of “Jerusalem”.  Ezek 9:4   The anointed are God’s Temple, New Jerusalem and the location of the detestable things being committed.  1 Pet 2:5,9 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 21, 20; Ps 118:22

we cannot find common ground, when you have blind obedience. To yourself, or a group as yourself. You cannot call your body a temple if you have disobedience in your heart. Christ left a structured command, and you only recognize a portion of it. By that means, you are NOT fulfilling God’s purpose in human life. You are only looking at the messenger, rather than fulfilling the message. There is a chain of command per say to fulfilling all of our godly devotion. There will always be someone to take the responsibility to bring a flock to sanctifying God, and our lord and savior, the correct way. By people GOD has approved to receive his Holy Spirit. Those that Follow scripture with a true understanding.

On 7/15/2016 at 8:41 AM, Witness said:

The perceived unity within the organization is forced by men at the direction of, yes, an evil slave who demands silence among God’s chosen ones.  Concerning the entire situation of the organization, there are those who either “like it that way” (Jer 5:30,31) and continue in idolatry in God’s name (Rev 14:18,19; Jer25: 29,30) or they wake up, get out and follow God’s requirements for life.  Isa 42:18-20,23; Matt 24:37,39.

I have been through many discussions with Born again Christians, and Judeo Christians that fail to apply bible knowledge in its proper context. So how can one be of one body and one mind, if one does not build upon the structure with obedience.

 

1 Peter 2:20-21 Context: Christ's Example of Suffering NT

Luke 20:17 Context: The Parable of the Wicked Tenants NT

2 Corinthians 6:16 Context: Do Not Be Unequally Yoked NT

Romans 6:16 Context: The Wages of Sin NT

Hebrews 3:6 Context: Jesus Our Apostle and High Priest NT

 

Acts 2:32-42 Context: Peter Preaches to the Crowd NT

Matthew Henry Commentary

2:22-36 From this gift of the Holy Ghost, Peter preaches unto them Jesus: and here is the history of Christ. Here is an account of his death and sufferings, which they witnessed but a few weeks before. His death is considered as God's act; and of wonderful grace and wisdom. Thus Divine justice must be satisfied, God and man brought together again, and Christ himself glorified, according to an eternal counsel, which could not be altered. And as the people's act; in them it was an act of awful sin and folly. Christ's resurrection did away the reproach of his death; Peter speaks largely upon this. Christ was God's Holy One, sanctified and set apart to his service in the work of redemption. His death and sufferings should be, not to him only, but to all his, the entrance to a blessed life for evermore. This event had taken place as foretold, and the apostles were witnesses. Nor did the resurrection rest upon this alone; Christ had poured upon his disciples the miraculous gifts and Divine influences, of which they witnessed the effects. Through the Saviour, the ways of life are made known; and we are encouraged to expect God's presence, and his favour for evermore. All this springs from assured belief that Jesus is the Lord, and the anointed Saviour.

What was Paul’s instructions to Timothy?

 

1 Timothy 4:12-14 Context: A Good Minister of Jesus Christ

12Let no one despise your youth, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, and to teaching. 14Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given you through the prophecy spoken over you at the laying on of the hands of the elders.…

2 Timothy 4:1-3 Context: Preach the Word

1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires.…

2 Timothy 2:15 Context: The Lord's Approved Workman

14Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words; this is in no way profitable, and leads its listeners to ruin. 15Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth. 16But avoid irreverent and empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness,…

These instructions were given for the purpose of not deviating away from the message. For us to get it straight, so that our teaching would be sound when teaching others.

So then, your perception is flawed when you state the following:

The perceived unity within the organization is forced by men at the direction of, yes, an evil slave who demands silence among God’s chosen ones.  Concerning the entire situation of the organization, there are those who either “like it that way” (Jer 5:30,31) and continue in idolatry in God’s name (Rev 14:18,19; Jer25: 29,30) or they wake up, get out and follow God’s requirements for life.  Isa 42:18-20,23; Matt 24:37,39.

This would therefore apply to you and your misleading application of scripture. To this understanding, the Apostles would form the same headship as the governing body, or the pope, or any elder, priest, pastor, etc. that take the responsibility to act accordingly as Paul instructed Timothy to be. Because Paul would have been the instructor. Paul was an imperfect man. So, then…with your perception, you would have to call Paul an evil slave. Does this make sense to you? Paul was given instruction and commissioned by Christ. Those instructions were passed down in a form of obedience to direction by God’s inspired word.

1 John 4:2 Context: Testing the Spirits

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time.…

Understanding Scripture: an overview of the Bible’s origin, reliability, and meaning 2012

Good preaching requires prayerfully interpreting the text in its context. This involves using the established rules of interpretation; understanding the text’s application both in its historical setting and in the whole of Scripture; discerning how it is a revelation of Jesus Christ and making the appropriate biblical connections; taking the trip from Jerusalem to one’s own town and coming to see its present relevance; articulating the theme of the text; using stories and illustrations that truly illuminate the text; and employing language that actually communicates in today’s culture.[p.108]

On 7/15/2016 at 8:41 AM, Witness said:

Learn about the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 12:1-31   Read your scriptures and put man’s opinion aside.

So in a sense, this is exactly what you are NOT doing.

 

Spiritual Guidance, is something that is learned by the interaction of others. When Jesus commissioned the Apostles? It was to give them an exact knowledge of his Father’s Truth. That’s was Christ Teachings.

We cannot be dismissive just because we don’t agree in the manner the message is being presented. The only way that would be a factor, is with teaching FALSE doctrine. Your implication the WTS is doing this because of the governing body(Men) is such an objective. Well, who commissioned you with exact knowledge through Holy Spirit to make such a claim. Christ was a perfect son of man. The GB pray to receive that exact knowledge so to dispense it. The Pope, believes he receives that divine revelation by speaking directly to God at 4:00 A.M. in a darkroom in a tiny room up on Vatican City. However, how can one receive this Holy Spirit, if one’s personal spirit is questionable. Then we go back to Paul’s instruction to Timothy, Right?

Conversely, your teachings by misinterpretation should be viewed as this FALSE doctrine teaching, thus being the hypothetical evil slave. Remember the good old biblical saying:

Luke 6:42 Context: Do Not Judge NT

42How can you say, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while you yourself fail to see the beam in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

You might say, well I’m being judgmental. Not exactly, I’m correcting the manner in which scripture is being portrayed to mislead those that lack deep understanding.

So in ESSENCE, I am telling true followers of Jehovah to stay away from sites such as this one that is riddled with APOSTASY. Why? So they may keep their temple you invigorate so much, clean from corruption, as instructed by Christ. Is this my saying? NO! it comes from the inspired word of GOD, not MAN. And that’s your biggest fallacy. So I am doing Christ teaching a service, rather than a disservice for thinking one body one mind, that serves NO purpose in UNITY.

Philippians 2:3-4 Context: One in Christ NT

3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.…

1 Peter 2:12-25 Context: Submission to Authorities NT

12Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us. 13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to the king as the supreme authority,

Matthew 28:18-20 Context: The Great Commission NT

18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 13:16-18 Context: Sacrifice, Obedience, and Prayer NT

16And do not neglect to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they watch over your souls as those who must give an account. To this end, allow them to lead with joy and not with grief, for that would be of no advantage to you. 18Pray for us; we are convinced that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way.…

 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Preaching means nothing if it leads one to identify with an organization propounded to be salvation and with a history of false prophesy. 

 

As I said earlier, “To call an earthly organization full of corruption hidden under the surface as God’s promise of life, is blasphemy.  Luke 4:5-8 One cannot fill the eye with loyalty to God and Christ by serving an organization placed in Satan’s realm.  Matt 6:24”

 

Which covenant promise would set sights on the earthly, life or death?

That’s strictly your opinion. Now think of the same for yourself. Christ spoke of unity for a reason. The hypothetical evil slave then falls within your own convoluted opinion.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

I’m sorry if I don’t make myself clear.  My perception has not gone awry regarding salvation.  It is personal, between oneself, God and Christ.

Unfortunately, we cannot pick and choice what we will obey out of scripture, Either your obedient to the covenant or you’re not.

Mark 16:20 Context: The Ascension

20And they went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked through them, confirming His word by the signs that accompanied it.

Matthew Henry Commentary

16:19,20 After the Lord had spoken he went up into heaven. Sitting is a posture of rest, he had finished his work; and a posture of rule, he took possession of his kingdom. He sat at the right hand of God, which denotes his sovereign dignity and universal power. Whatever God does concerning us, gives to us, or accepts from us, it is by his Son. Now he is glorified with the glory he had before the world. The apostles went forth, and preached everywhere, far and near. Though the doctrine they preached was spiritual and heavenly, and directly contrary to the spirit and temper of the world; though it met with much opposition, and was wholly destitute of all worldly supports and advantages; yet in a few years the sound went forth unto the ends of the earth. Christ's ministers do not now need to work miracles to prove their message; the Scriptures are proved to be of Divine origin, and this renders those without excuse who reject or neglect them. The effects of the gospel, when faithfully preached, and truly believed, in changing the tempers and characters of mankind, form a constant proof, a miraculous proof, that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, of all who believe.

We would all love to worship God away from conflict. However, Jesus paved the way for humanity to receive spiritual food. If we don’t understand scripture, or base our own understanding of scripture. How will one know, if one has erred? So far in this website, understanding scripture is flawed.

Colossians 2:23 Context: Alive in Christ

23Such restrictions indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-prescribed worship, their false humility, and their harsh treatment of the body; but they are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Colossians 1:18 Context: The Supremacy of Christ

18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.

32 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

What??? Didn't you just get through telling me that I was the one who applied these labels? 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

now you want to say it was God? 

Why don't you read what you wrote a few posts back and get back to me. You need to clarify where you are coming from if I am going to  continue a discussion. 

Your claim is suggestive. Your presuming that the WTS is publishing articles without understanding scripture. Your presumption is flawed just like your label. The WTS publishes it’s spiritual understanding directly from scripture. Whose words are in scripture. Or are you implying now, that scripture is NOT the inspired word of God?

This reversal of yours is cliché!

24 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

The instrument is broken, all of them!!!! 

That is why we are to follow Jesus and not ANY so called organization. I say so called because those in each organization do not and cannot follow men, because men change their ideas to suit their needs. 

I didn't choose the label, the WT did. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Context: Members of Christ

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to nor perform homosexual acts,

The WTS is an organization just like any other church. Be it Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, etc. They all publish their own understanding. However, the WTS publishes its understanding directly from scripture.

I didn't apply the conditions of these people, the WT did. Luke 23:43English Standard Version (ESV)43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

I didn't say who would make it and who wouldn't, the WT did.  Revelation 2:7 English Standard Version (ESV)7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

So your anticlerical question. The WTS didn’t God’s Word did. Learn scripture.

2 minutes ago, HollyW said:

I know you're having a struggle here with this teaching because you probably were not aware of it and haven't taken the time yet to research it.  I did post the references from the WT publications, but you seem to have not taken them seriously.

Oh! I understand. I have NO difficulties. However, you need to continue to learn about scripture, and not play into your own desires, of thinking you comprehend facts.

7 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

I didn't choose the label, the WT did.

I didn't apply the conditions of these people, the WT did.

I didn't say who would make it and who wouldn't, the WT did. 

Read your Revelation book, Aid to bible understanding, reasoning from the scriptures, etc. Its all there where the WT has made these claims, I am just asking you about them, and how YOU align that with the Bible. Obviously you are not in agreement with the WT on this one, so tell me what you do believe. 

The WTS is a mere instrument, as was with the Apostles to their converts. You continue to label in order to reject, and out of spike. If that were the case, then Christendom have that label as well. So you are contradicting yourself.

4 minutes ago, HollyW said:

And then they'll be tested by Satan and a vast multitude of them will join him and go to war against the other JWs.  That's the teaching of the WTS.  Why do you not know this?

Because ignorance is no excuse for not understanding. You call yourself a loyalist of Christ without understanding a word in scripture.

2 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Then how can some of them side with Satan if they are perfect? 

You are suggesting that after God's Day and during the 1000 year reign, they will have become robots. How did Adam and Eve get tempted. Free Will. Let's not confuse the notion.

6 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

but the point is that they are JW's who have gained perfection, or so the society says. The Bible speaks of those who align with Satan after the 1000 year reign, and according to WT theology they have to be JW's and they have to be perfect. 

You want to continue to put a label. There will be no name branding. They will simply be God’s Children. If after the 1000-year reign, people presume to give themselves labels? It will have come out from God’s Children, God’s Creation. What label was there with Adam and Eve?

29 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

It is true that the society believes that only JW's will survive Armageddon. So then only JW's will be there at the end of the 1000 year reign. If only JW's are there after 1000 years, then they HAVE to be the ones who, after being made perfect, would align themselves with Satan by not submitting to Christ. Thus be on the opposite side of God and aligned with Satan, and ready for war against the saints.  

incorrect, the WTS teaches JW's have been taking the lead to obey God's Laws. After the 1000 reign, they will be known as God's Children, a perfect creation finally.

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Tell me this then, those who do not submit themselves to Christ at the end of the thousand year reign,  did they gain to perfection as those who did submit?

During that time frame, everyone will have come to be in harmony with the teaching of Christ. Those that don’t adhere after due to temptation as in the Garden of Eden will be dealt with by God the Father, and Christ the King. They will NOT be afforded a second chance as did Adam and Eve.

Revelation 21:8 Context: A new heaven and new earth

8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

11 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So who does Satan gather together for war at the end of the 1000 year reign if all that are left are perfect?

 

The takeaway is, circumstance of the people. The battle will be once again between ideology, and those submitting themselves to false teachings will be eliminated by God and Christ.

You can also add false religion. Praying to BAAL, instead of JEHOVAH

4 hours ago, HollyW said:

Do you believe the WTS has interpreted Revelation 20:7-9 incorrectly then?  I posted their interpretation of it.

 

4 hours ago, HollyW said:

 So, is the WTS wrong, or is this something you weren't aware of?

You seem to be conflicted with wording. Between the word WAR, rather than CHALLENGE. The one who is incorrect her would be you, and your assumptions. Instead of giving it literal connotations, lookup the commentaries if you fail to understand the reasoning behind scripture.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

 

20:7-10 While this world lasts, Satan's power in it will not be wholly destroyed, though it may be limited and lessened. No sooner is Satan let loose, than he again begins deceiving the nations, and stirring them up to make war with the saints and servants of God. It would be well if the servants and ministers of Christ were as active and persevering in doing good, as his enemies in doing mischief. God will fight this last and decisive battle for his people, that the victory may be complete, and the glory be to himself.

Meyer's NT Commentary

Revelation 20:7-10. After the completion of the one thousand years, Satan is let loose; then he leads the heathen nations, Gog and Magog, to an attack upon the saints. But fire from heaven consumes those nations, and Satan is cast eternally into the lake of fire.

The takeaway is, circumstance of the people. The battle will be once again between ideology, and those submitting themselves to false teachings will be eliminated by God and Christ.

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

I don't know if you're being deceitful about what the WTS teaches, or if you don't know the WTS teaches that brother will be pitted against brother at the end of the 1,000 years.

I don’t know if your simply unaware how to read scripture, or don’t have an understanding of it. With your own cited scripture, at what point does it state, Brother will go against Brother, if JUDGEMENT will come from CHRIST.

Another simple anecdotal, where do you keep coming up with Jw’s at the end of the 1000-year reign. After Armageddon, WE will have become God’s People, and after we return to a state that GOD intended his creation to be, there will be no separatism assumed.

So your deception of Brother against Brother will NOT be governed by man, but judged through Christ. So the WTS is NOT implying what you are thinking of. Christ will judge US as individuals, not man as a nation. That’s why it’s important to understand scripture.

I learned that at age 5. Isaiah 2:4

4 And He will judge between the nations, and will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war.

On 7/9/2016 at 11:51 PM, HollyW said:

Evidently you've forgotten that the WTS teaches that even after a thousand years of studying their publications to finally become perfect and meet God's standards physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually, JWs will still be persuaded to go to war against other JWs.  Being perfect at that time, what's their excuse?!

And how do you know that brother will be pitted against brother. Your concept is so flawed it would need no further discussion.

After God’s Day. Those resurrected will not be perfect human beings. Nor will they have exact knowledge of Gods Words through Christ. If after the cleansing and return to perfection time passes, anyone deemed unworthy will be justly judged by Christ.

But you do have a vivid imagination.

However, what is the excuse of Christendom today for the killing of anyone in the name of peace and security, and War. What is one fundamental commandment Christ agreed with the mosaic law, thou shall NOT kill. Who else other than Witnesses obeys Gods law, and yet call themselves Christian.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I totally agree with you that everlasting life is through God and Christ, this is why I do not belong to any organization claiming to be the path to salvation.  You, though, are facing a dilemma.  Although your words speak truth, actions take precedence over your choice of salvation.  The organization requires your identity, not only literally through baptism, but through your support and obedience.  1 Cor 7:23

Unfortunately, there is some misunderstanding in your perception of salvation. The required is personal, since God and Son will judge the just. However, Jesus did put forward a plan to meet those just requirements. Your lone wolf perception, then is a gamble of what Christ asked us to do.

So baptism is an acknowledgement one has to remain faithful until God’s day comes. The obedience is not to the instrument in which God uses to pass spiritual food, but obedience to God through Christ and those loyal servants. Remember no one can guarantee salvation no matter who they are.

But those accepting the proper guidance as the apostles did through Christ teachings demonstrate the correct course to take. We are loyal to God and the manner in how he dispenses his spiritual food to any loyal servant worthy of his Holy Spirit.

Proper knowledge of scripture is therefore afforded true understanding, not the concept of our own understanding.

6 minutes ago, HollyW said:

Both of those quotes support the point that your thoughts are controlled by the WTS.....and that's whether you agree with them or not, and whether you think it is strange or unusual.

Yes, I understand the perception you think that watchtower statement means. There's no blind obedience as you people perceive.

However, so far, the Watchtower has not given me a cause to distrust their understanding of fundamental truth, as I arrive to the same conclusions. So the 144 question and the slave class is rhetorical, and irrelevant.

2 minutes ago, HollyW said:

 You're the one who brought Catholics and the Pope into this discussion.  You also theorized that " a group of Catholic sympathizers pretending to be Jehovah’s Witnesses orchestrated that defilement to tarnish the Watchtower".  But you offer no evidence of this whatsoever, which makes it as lame as the accusation in the OP.  I don't think the WTS needs any help from Catholics, it's quite capable of tarnishing itself.

No really, it's people as yourself to want to Tarnish the Watchtower, and the lame attempts by other religions that call the Watchtower cults.

15 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

One of Your Own popes, Geoffrey Jackson, has admitted that there have been molesters within the organization that have not been turned over to authorities. This isn't behind the scenes,  but rather under oath in a court of law, Caesars law, to which the Bible tells us we must obey.

Maybe you should watch the Australian royal commission and see for yourself.  Or you can research the San Diego superior court case against Mr Campos.

Funny thing about the ARC. I watched it all, and have the transcripts. You are totally misleading the answers Bro Jackson outlined. But as he TOLD Stewart, that what happens when secular law attempts to intervene in Judicial matters.

The Campos case, was adjudicated for none response by the Watchtower, as mentioned by the lower court that failed to advise the Watchtower about its need to appear. Clerical error. Perhaps you should learn to understand judicial matters other than reading nonsense from questionable websites littered with apostasy.

6 minutes ago, HollyW said:

What do you make of this:

Your point is? Harmony is not what you people define here other than criticize the Watchtower. I am a defender of the truth, and God. You people have maligned and distorted The Watchtowers truth enough for a true witness to step in. Just like Allen Smith did with the World News Media website.