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Gnosis Pithos

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  1. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    "This is speculation. How can Jehovah save only people when they are reunited at a specific point?"
    Jehovah can save anyone, anytime, anywhere or situation.
    I simply wrote that the gathering is a biblical teaching.
    This may be true or it may be false.
    Then the objection had to be: "Where is it written in the Bible that the people of God will have to gather in a specific place before Armageddon?"
  2. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    This is speculation. As if Jehovah can only save people when they are gathered in a specific spot?
    They sure are, as far as I can tell.  John 17:3, John 20:31, John 8:12,  Matthew 7:21,  Romans 2:13, James 1:22, 1 John 2:17, 1 John 5:3, Jude 3:3-5, Romans 13:11-13, Heb 10:36,  3John 3,4,  Romans 8:6....etc. etc.
  3. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Thanks Allen! 
    I see how this "illness" of giving down vote symbols is contagious :))))))
    Gnosis Pithos and Praeceptor showed me how to use tool -  downvote  :)))
    And now it came on you too :)))) 
  4. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    :)))) i just decide (temporary) to "imitate good example" of those who giving me down vote symbols. Nothing personal  to you :)))))))
    Thanks for good perception!
  5. Downvote
  6. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Oh my God! Are you serious? :((((((( 
    "enemies' over dis 'too', no?"
    Nana, are we enemies???? If we are, then you have to love your enemies, as Jesus teaches you.  
  7. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    heehhe Librarian would give you little monition (again), because you offend me and underestimate my life experience, past/history :))))))))
  8. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    If you are from Serbia, i would understand if you would like to use your mother language. I am from Zagreb, Croatia, so we are neighbors in this way or another :)))
    I spent 3 years in Valjevo prison when i was JW, because refused to go to the army/military service from 1980-1983. hehe
  9. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Dear Nana,
    i see you gave me LIKE symbol, but...
    My thanking you for "very good arguments" was in irony mode. To clear misunderstanding  and meaning of written words i was send to you i will put it this way;
    "I am sorry Nana, but i don't see how your comment/explanation giving arguments."
    All best Nana!
  10. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Jesus is bread and in that meaning is food for us, also as his blood is drink for us. 
    Serving to others (doing Father's will) was food for Jesus.
    Father's will for us is that Jesus teaching us. He is "Great Teacher" (book) :)))
  11. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    P.S. about food quality.
    Master is One who have  absolute ability to check "the food" and to say all critics and all compliments how and what food was served on a table. Here we have two segments, as you JW Insider also concluded; 
    1) Perfect food from Jesus is served on the table
    2) Rooted food from Human is served on the table
    Is table the same table? Or we have two and more tables?
    If table is one, and we sitting and waiting for food. And then food start to coming 3-5 time in a day and for weeks and for years. Did I or you not developed ability to recognize all  different tastes and smells of food? How was food served on table? Did same servant came and bring food or some new faces coming with new dishes? 
    Who is responsible if i am eating food which taste is suspicious to me (food is not "perfect) and i am stubborn in decision to eat "imperfect", rooted food despite of fact how my taste buds and nose and eyes start to questioning the food? "Kitchen chef" will answer to Master. To whom will answer "distributor of food" the one who bringing food on table? I guess also to Master, no matter did he knew or not what was happen in kitchen in cooking process. And what will be with hungry people around the table. Can they "sue" Chef or Waiter for food they ate? Or to make complain?  It depend.  :)))
  12. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Yes, GB  does produce "food" (millions of printed/published publication proved this). In text you explained very well about rooted food from FDS aka GB. Such "product" is not from "heaven". Well who is Producer/Manufacturer  of such rooted food?? 
    If "slave" doing his job well he will not received any compliment from Master. Because his job is to work, to serve. And other slaves around this particular "slave" not need to sing praises about "slave" who bring food on table, And also this particular "slave" must quietly doing his job and not talking around how he doing this or that and how all his work is fantastic and unique in the whole world. Such servant is not Modest. And will not receive higher position in Master's household. 
    I agree with you, if understand you correctly, how every person is/can be FDS in some situation.
    I agree how illustration about FDS  tells us nothing about Quality of Food. So, GB self conclusion about  what  words "Jesus never said" is pure manipulation and deceiving.  They, GB also sometimes using fraze, while introducing new theories or new changes of doctrines, like this: "Jesus was thought, He obviously meant ..." and then put OWN human idea :)))
    Also, GB by own retrospective self evaluation of food quality ("perfect food" vs "imperfect food") shows how they consider themselves not only as "producer aka kitchen chef" and "sharers aka distributors" of food BUT also as  inspector and controller of food quality. They appropriated the right to evaluate food - this right belongs to the Lord, Master.
    Blessed you!
  13. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    He ask, rhetorical question; "Who is FDS?" In asking Jesus not gave the answer.
    Only 2 conclusions;
    A - IF FDS giving food he is ok and will receive revard 
    B - IF FDS not giving food he will be punished. 
     
  14. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Perhaps I haven't been very clear with my wording on this forum. I don't actually disagree with a Governing Body existing over the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. That would be like me questioning why each congregation has an elder body. It is clear that the GB fulfills the role of an elder body over the entire congregation on earth.
    What I take issue with is the unquestioned obedience that the GB demands. I have yet to receive satisfactory, Scriptural evidence for this view. Is this how the first century apostles perceived themselves? Any questioning by JWs is compared to the fatal murmuring of Korah and his associates, but Moses was a prophet for Jehovah God. When he spoke to the people, it was like God himself spoke. He was granted the authority by Jehovah to lead the Israelites like God. Jehovah made his divine support of Moses clear when he parted the Red Sea and performed many miracles in his name. When Moses spoke to the people with a thought generated by his own imperfect mind rather than God's, Jehovah actually removed his blessing of the Promise Land. The GB don't speak as prophets, and it is clear they often speak and direct with thoughts generated by imperfect, human minds rather than God's mind. They acknowledge that they have erred in their direction throughout the organization's history. So, how can they expect the same level of obedience that Moses received? It doesn't add up in my mind. Besides, it is Jesus who is the greater Moses and not the GB.
    Now, you may say that prophets don't exist anymore, so it's unfair to expect prophets in this day and age. That's true. We no longer need prophets, because we have God's complete word in the Bible. I believe that Jesus Christ's leadership is expressed through the Bible. It trumps all human authority. It is the "check" to us all. The Bible stands alone. In my research, I pondered why Jehovah separated the roles of apostles and prophets into two groups in the first century. I have my own theory that Jehovah did so to prevent one  group from gaining too much authority--sort of like the checks and balances in the US government. But the GB acts as those taking the lead and guardians of doctrine. Instead of the Bible "checking" their authority as an independent entity (like an auditor), it has become completely intertwined with the GB. They have stated that they alone have been granted the capacity from God to properly interpret the Bible's message. So, no one else can use the Bible to check them, because they can simply discredit that individual by saying that he/she was not chosen by God to interpret the Bible. Therefore, their interpretation is invalid.
    It's like when the gov't does an internal investigation...we roll our eyes. We know that it won't be too critical against itself, but instead create an outcome that is the most favorable. The GB has interpreted the Bible and structured the org in such a way that gives them maximum control and minimum accountability. They essentially play both sides of the fields: God's channel that deserves unquestioned obedience and the imperfect human group that err. Having to be submissive to a GB who play these 2 conflicting roles is very frustrating for me. I don't know how to work with them.
    And while I've said a lot, I just want to be clear that I don't want to usurp anyone's authority--especially in God's religion. My questioning is how I make my faith and my ideology firmer. I'm a work-in-progress. I'm not so dogmatic to claim I have all the right answers. My views are evolving, and I appreciate the discussions on here.
  15. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to JW Insider in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    The slave does not produce spiritual food, it's just that any servant that is properly motivated will do what they can to share what they can. Our Governing Body has done an excellent job in finding efficient ways to share "spiritual" food, because the ministry they have chosen to administer for us is a teaching ministry. But the illustration of the "wicked and faithful slave" that this idea is based on says nothing about spiritual food specifically. A true steward will always do what is in his power to effectively carry out his ministry.
    But all of us are slaves of Christ, and all of us should learn from the same illustration, whether it is spiritual food we share, physical food, comfort, clothing, support, encouragement -- our food should be for us to do the will of our Father. But I think it's clear that the "food" includes sharing physical food, wherever such a stewardship and ministry is necessary.
    (James 1:27) 27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
    (Acts 6:1) . . ., the Greek-speaking Jews began complaining against the Hebrew-speaking Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution.
    (1 Timothy 5:3-8) 3 Give consideration to widows who are truly widows. 4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let these learn first to practice godly devotion in their own household and to repay their parents and grandparents what is due them, for this is acceptable in God’s sight. 5 Now the woman who is truly a widow and left destitute has put her hope in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day. . . .  8 Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.
    (Matthew 10:42) 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water to drink because he is a disciple, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.”
    Paul made a point to show that there is no separate "body" within the "body of the congregation." People who believed this would look to men who were good teachers of spiritual things, like Paul himself, or Apollos. Paul said: all Christians were fellow servants, and that all of us carry the burdens of one another. Yet in the end, we are responsible for our own spiritual standing -- not because of specific teachings produced by others.
    (1 Corinthians 3:5-9) 5 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one. 6 I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow, 7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow. 8 Now the one who plants and the one who waters are one, but each person will receive his own reward according to his own work. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field under cultivation, God’s building. (Galatians 6:2-5) 2 Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and in this way you will fulfill the law of the Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he is deceiving himself. 4 But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. 5 For each one will carry his own load.
    1 Corinthians 7:22-24) . . .he that was called when a freeman is a slave of Christ. 23 YOU were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men. 24 In whatever condition each one was called, brothers, let him remain in it associated with God.
    I think we should take offense at the idea that the Governing Body produces spiritual food. Jesus is the food. And all of us will be taught ultimately by Jehovah.
    (John 6:45-58) 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me. 46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father. 47 Most truly I say to you, whoever believes has everlasting life. 48 “I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when your forefathers ate and yet died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” (1 Corinthians 3:11) 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    So far, we should remember that so many times when the Governing Body has attempted to produce food, that food has soon rotted or has become stale. But there has always been great permanent value in everything they have shared, even when they are just sharing a cup of water with another one of Christ's brothers when directing a response to material disasters around the world, or other helpful services, or rebuilding a place of worship, or sharing Bibles and Bible-based publications and videos, talks, sermons, artwork, organizing assemblies, etc. But we shouldn't shirk our own part in all this. It's important that ALL of us are faithful and discreet stewards. Otherwise, I think we have missed the point of Jesus' illustration in Matthew 24, and might sometimes just be relying on obsolete types and antitypes to avoid carrying our own load.
    (1 Peter 4:10-11) 10 To the extent that each one has received a gift, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God’s undeserved kindness that is expressed in various ways. 11 If anyone speaks, let him do so as speaking pronouncements from God; if anyone ministers, let him do so as depending on the strength that God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ.. . . *** Rbi8 1 Peter 4:10 ***    Or, “house managers.” Lit., “house administrators.” Gr., oi·ko·noʹmoi; Lat., di·spen·sa·toʹres; J22(Heb.), kesoh·khenimʹ, “as stewards.” (1 Corinthians 12:27, 28) 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and each of you individually is a member. 28 And God has assigned the respective ones in the congregation:. . . teachers; . . . helpful services; abilities to direct;. . . When Jesus returns to ask who among us were really faithful stewards, and who were shirking our responsibilities, imagine his reaction --in light of these scriptures-- if we were to tell Jesus that we thought we were supposed to depend on a specific body of men to define what he meant by ministering and to define the types of food we shared with others.
    (Luke 12:47, 48) 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.
  16. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    LESSONS FOR TODAY (WT study edition, nov 2013)
    17 . ....(3) At that time, the LIFE-SAVING DIRECTIONS that we receive FROM Jehovah’s ORGANIZATION may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us MUST BE READY TO OBEY ANY INSTRUCTIONS we may receive, whether these appear SOUND from a strategic or human standpoint OR NOT.    AND NOW (after few years we have) SALTO MORTALE “WHO REALLY IS THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?” (WT study edition, feb 2017) 
    12 The Governing Body IS NEITHER INSPIRED NOR INFALLIBLE. Therefore, IT CAN ERR IN DOCTRINAL MATTERS OR IN ORGANIZATIONAL DIRECTION. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, JESUS DID NOT TELL US THAT his faithful SLAVE WOULD PRODUCE PERFECT spiritual food.
      Basement Video on Convention is one example of direct statement  how should, would, will JW be saved  by resurrection . :)))
     
  17. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    As predicted in the Scriptures, I imagine that confidence in a certain guide will gradually decrease, more and more.
    So writing phrases like "Strange instructions could come" means saying "you always obey".
    Moreover, "closing in the congregations" is a play of words because it does not mean "closing in the Halls of the Kingdom". If the people of God will be scattered all over the world until the last moment, no specific instruction will be given (in fact, needs and situations vary from country to country). So cite Isaiah by applying "inner rooms" to congregations can mean everything and nothing.
    If you lock yourself in a Kingdom Hall and this Kingdom Hall is destroyed, it means "you did not understand the instructions."
    Closure to the congregation, on the other hand, is a way to say "You have to trust in Jehovah."
    If something bad happens, it means you did not trust Jehovah.
    Instead, the Bible explains that the people of God will be gathered (from all over the world) to a specific spot on Earth just before Armageddon. In this case the instructions (which may concern first aid, hygiene, food sharing and other things) will be clear and simple. They will not be strange.
    But this information is "apostasy" is not it?
    So very few will pay attention.
    Alternatively, wait for these "strange" instructions.
    It will be very reasonable to think that people who are resident all over the world, with different geographies, different climates, different needs, and isolated siblings far from everyone and everyone, will receive "specific instructions".
    Let's say "close in the congregations" and so we are sure we will not go wrong (if something goes wrong, the fault is what you did not trust in Jehovah).
    Think about Israel's history and how it was saved from Egypt, or about Lot and how it was saved from Sodom and Gomorrah.
    Think of the words "for our education" - Romans 15: 4
    Reflect on the words "fully prepared" - 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
    Perhaps the instructions to survive Armageddon (perhaps) are already written in the Bible.
  18. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    No, no, NO! I protest! I did not propose any spin. In fact part of this whole debate is me trying to reason that no spin should be put on it at all.
    Yes, and I don’t doubt it at all. It just irritates me a little when what is speculation, is presented as fact.
    I would say yes and no. Many rely on Jehovah through the Slave.  What I was meaning “rely directly” was that this reliance will be between individuals and Jehovah only. We have a tendency to do  ”group saving”   through phrases such as “Jehovah’s people as a whole”  “through the congregation arrangement”  etc.  There is nothing wrong with that at all, and is scriptural of course.  But Jesus indicates that this time it will be a little different. Romans14:12 “So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God” Rev 22:12 “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work". Matt. 24:41 “Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned....”.  So I was trying to indicate that concerning Armageddon, speculation on Jehovah  going through specific channels or agents to give us instructions  might be adding to what is not there...in spite of referencing Hebrew scriptures of how it used to be done etc.  As for miracles, I meant the kind of miracles that are not dependent on location or someones activity or that are done on behalf of a group. But the kind of miracle where you are standing in the middle of a war zone by yourself, with bullets flying and bombs going off and you are untouched, Marvel movie style. And then the miracle of actual survival during the aftermath, which I went into already a little.
    The purpose of that question was based on this reasoning in par 20.
    Therefore, we want to develop heartfelt
    obedience to the guidance we are receiving. (1 John 5:3)
    If we do so today, we will be more inclined to obey willingly
    in the future and thus receive the protection of our Father,
     
    I mean the paragraph would have been better without speculations and without the "if's", and the implication that we are so shallow as to obey merely to save our lives, without being granted the dignity that our obedience surely has deeper motives, such as our love for Jehovah and his sovereignty, appreciation for the ransom,  and our desire to please him. Therefor we shouldn't need the  "if's" but rather "because" .
    Am I making too much of a big deal out of this...?
    I think I need @TrueTomHarley to put things into perspective. Because to be honest, all I want to do during Armageddon is hide in the closet and pray like crazy, and afterwards sit on a pile of rubble, hopefully with my loved ones, have crows bring us food and water and just relax for a week or so. Because we will probably all be physically so tired and too emotionally drained and elated at the same time, to even comprehend any instructions blasted at us through a loudspeaker.
     
     
    .
  19. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Melinda Mills in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    " It seems that all true Christians have equal access to the Bible, prayer and holy spirit. "  - Anna
    ------------
    (Psalm 65:2) 2 O Hearer of prayer, to you people of all sorts will come.

    (Proverbs 2:1-22) My son, if you accept my sayings And treasure up my commandments,  2 By making your ear attentive to wisdom And inclining your heart to discernment;  3 Moreover, if you call out for understanding And raise your voice for discernment;  4 If you keep seeking for it as for silver, And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures;  5 Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God.  6 For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; From his mouth come knowledge and discernment. 
    (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
    (Revelation 22:17) And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free.
    (Joel 2:28,29)  28 After that I will pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, And your sons and your daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, And your young men will see visions. 29 And even on my male slaves and female slaves I will pour out my spirit in those days.
    Everyone has equal opportunity to come to Jehovah and receive help.
    =====
    I wanted to send this last night but it disappeared. Thanks to admin for restoring it.
    =====
    This morning I was writing a post and something miraculous happened - I was trying to remember a phrase in the Bible, but did not know where it was in the Bible.  I however continued with my writing, when I looked for the scripture for the next point I realized that I was being helped because the verse above the scripture had the phrase I was looking for to support the previous point. (I really did not know it was there I had seen it.)
    This is not the first time I had experiences that show that Jehovah wants us to help others put confidence in Him and his Word.  God's Word is alive and exerts power.  Sometimes after I research things to help others I often understand them better or things become clearer to me as well.
     

     
     

     
     
     
  20. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Exactly, and this is what I tried to explain in the post above, when I said  “We can take this whole survival thing further into the stream of time. Even after being judged as sheep, and after entering the new world, our survival will always depend on obeying Jehovah’s instructions, since we will always be dependent on him to stay alive”.
    Yes indeed, and it has apparently already been spun a certain way, according to those two paragraphs.
    However, thinking about it logically does that kind of a spin make sense?  I see several problems with it. If we are obedient to the Slave now, we will be judged as sheep obviously, and if we are obedient now, it follows we will be obedient during Armageddon, as per the reasoning in par. 20.  So this is a closed circle, since one naturally leads to the other. Therefore on that basis, what is actually the point of those two paragraphs? And what is to say we are at liberty to apply Jehovah's saving arrangements in the past to what he will do in the future?
    Because how can it be categorically said that there will be instructions given to us through some centralized body or agent? Or even congregation overseers? Am I to imagine elder John is going to receive a vision which he will then relay to the rest of the little group?
    To go into even more detail, it was different  with the Israelites for example, coming out of Egypt, following Moses. This kind of a scenario will obviously be impossible during Armageddon, although similar scenes are depicted in our literature. However, if you think about it, something like that is not even remotely possible because:
    How could we be organized into one large group when we are so scattered? Although we are one nation symbolically we are not one nation physically. The next congregation from us is 10 miles away, and even if we were grouped according to circuits, we might have a couple of thousand, with the next couple of thousand in the next city, miles away. On top of that, how are we going to travel with no fuel, (and with the frail and infirm) since there will be no one to operate the stations, and no electricity to pump the fuel out as there will be no one operating the generators, and no one supplying the fuel as there will be no drivers and there will be no pilots to operate planes, no captains to operate ships, and no one to operate the oil rigs.  How are we going to get any messages forwarded across miles and miles of land and sea? This is a very complex modern infrastructure we live in at the present time, and it is wholly reliant on workers, who will be dead. And on top of these obvious logistical and communicational problems, there will be masses of rotting corpses, poisoning the water and air, to contend with. What are we going to be drinking and eating while we are figuring this out? I am sure we can all think of so much more. So what I am trying to say is that it goes without saying we will evidently have to rely directly on Jehovah and on miracles he will probably perform at that time. It stands to reason we will all be direct witnesses of these miracles, and will experience them personally, without them going through some human centralized group, or agents.
    If we are already judged as sheep before Armageddon, would it stand to reason that we would suddenly become disobedient, if we have proved by our life (on the basis of which we were judged) that we were worthy of being judged as sheep by our previous obedience?  It doesn’t make logical sense we would suddenly see the need to not follow instructions, especially after we have obviously been following instructions to get to where we are that point (judged as sheep) and especially when we had just witnessed the supernatural manifestations of the last prophesy being  fulfilled.  If we are honest, are many of us not already psyched up and eagerly waiting for some “special pronouncement” by the slave, so much so that most of us would be willing to move to Timbuktu at the drop of a hat, if those were the instructions given to us by them? And are we not sitting on the edge of our seats in anticipation and hint of any significant turn of events on the world scene any moment?
    Wouldn’t it have been much simpler to say something along the lines of: “How will Jehovah preserve alive those who have been judged as sheep during Armageddon? We will have to wait and see. One thing we can be sure of is that Jehovah knows how to deliver people of Godly devotion. At that time all of us will most likely experience supernatural manifestations on our behalf, and we will want to put our full trust in Jehovah’s protective and life giving powers. Of course it won’t end there, as we will continue to do so after the dust of Armageddon has settled, and in to the distant future"......etc.
    So I am still trying to figure out the motive behind those two paragraphs....
    This is the scripture I always go to, to explain why it's reasonable to expect that God has an organized and a united people on earth today.
  21. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    @Gone Fishing
    We can take this whole survival thing further into the stream of time. Even after being judged as sheep, and after entering the new world, our survival will always depend on obeying Jehovah’s instructions, since we will always be dependent on him to stay alive. Still, I don’t think that warrants us thinking that there will be some kind of “special logistical” instructions at Armageddon, as if Jehovah needs us in one particular place, or do some particular thing in order to be able to save us. Or in order for us to prove we are worthy of salvation. Like one more test on top of a test. And especially not when the reason for that is used to “encourage” us to be obedient now.....  
    Just my thoughts
  22. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Yes, including paragraph 19. But I think the thread might have digressed a little by now.
    I think you might have misunderstood. I have no issue with following  instructions per se. None at all actually. What I am wondering about is the reasoning in par. 19 and 20 in relation to this. There are two questions that came to mind as we were studying the lesson at the midweek meeting (actually a week ago since I read on ahead last week). I already posted my line of thought in several posts above and you might have missed it, so I will just rearrange and copy and paste some of it here:
    In those two paragraphs I was wondering if we might be going beyond what is written by going beyond the application intended for the scriptures that were cited: (Isaiah 25:20 and 30:21, 1John 5:3,  Zephaniah 2:3)( saying that "our survival of coming events will depend on our obedience to Jehovah’s instructions" and  "Therefore, we want to develop heartfelt obedience to the guidance we are receiving. (1 John 5:3) If we do so today, we will be more inclined to obey willingly in the future and thus receive the protection of our Father, Jehovah, and our King, Jesus") It makes me wonder, was this written for the purpose of reaffirming the Slave's God given authority over the flock at the present time?
    Otherwise it doesn't seem to make sense to me that after those who are judged as sheep, and marked for survival then their survival (of coming events) will depend on their obedience to Jehovah’s instructions. I don't see anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus teaches this idea with regard to the final judgement. In fact I see the opposite "Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned".
    To me, it sounds awfully like some kind of soft threat you make to a child. What I hear when I read those two paragraphs is: “you better obey the Slave NOW, or you’re gonna die later.” And I am thinking, do we really need that? Are we presumed so shallow as to obey merely to save our hides? Or shouldn’t we be granted the dignity that our obedience surely has deeper motives than that?
     

     
     
  23. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    Sorry, I know this question wasn't to me, but I find it interesting. As far as I am aware, Jesus doesn't communicate with the anointed (any anointed) directly. I believe all the communication is there for anybody to access, because it's the Bible. Yes, holy spirit is needed to help us understand the scriptures, but anyone can ask for holy spirit for that purpose. The only time in my opinion when there is any direct communication, is at the point when the person receives the heavenly calling. It used to be thought that the anointed would regularly receive some kind of divine flashes of inspiration or insight, but there is no evidence that the anointed, including the GB think that now. It seems that all true Christians have equal access to the Bible, prayer and holy spirit. 
  24. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Anna in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    I am assuming you mean while still on earth since in heaven they will definitely play a vital role . All the anointed I have ever known (and I have known quite a few) have been very humble people, never ones who pushed ahead and asserted themselves in any way. I cannot imagine that they would suddenly become something they are not. True, I don't now what kind of role you had in mind, and if this role would require some kind of miraculous intervention, since there are many congregations with not a single anointed person in them.
  25. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?   
    There's many more anointed than GB members, but according to the GB salvation comes from strict obedience to them alone. Based on the increasing number of partakers...I wonder if a generation of younger anointed ones is rising up. This seems to be a worrisome trend to the org, because it throws a wrench in their current generation theory. Like I said, I believe the anointed will play a vital role in the future. But I digress...
    I meant the faceless legal entity that exists in name only. It behaves like a person would...seeking it's best interests. But I'm concerned about the people and not an organization. 
    I get that he can do anything he wants, but I'm concerned about what he has done to verify what he's doing today. Do you think it's at all possible that Jesus could communicate with the anointed directly? And not rely on a centralized GB? If that were the case, would that be acceptable to those taking the lead? 
    Is it an unreasonable fear? If unchecked authority was what caused the Clergy class to form, shouldn't we be concerned about the unchecked authority of the GB today? "Oh this time just trust us." I believe power is always corruptive. 
    It's concerning because the organization promotes a mindset of not questioning anything. That flies in the face of 1 John 4:1. Jehovah wants us to test the inspired expressions. The bereans were called noble for that reason. If it is the truth, it should stand up to critical thought. 
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